Powerbar woes

[Badger_South]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 01:00:29 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> below 80 gm/day. Veggies have a lot of complex carbs.
>
>Quite so. And Atkins encourages people to eat them. It's against high GI
>starchy vegetables like potatoes but leafy green vegetables and the like are
>not just approved but recommended and I wish people would stop trying to
>pretend otherwise.

What might be fun is to create a 'low carb diet for athletes', taking into
account the glucose window (time window on either side of an activity
spike), and supporting some theory on how 'being in a keto burning phase'
(if there is such a thing) enables or inhibits modestly active exercising.

Personally, I think it enables it, such that you can get into and stay in
the 'fat-burning phase' - typically at 90 - 120 minutes biking - more
easily, your system being "used" to burning ketones. No cites or evidence
for that, I'm aware of. I find I seem to get into that fat-burning phase
sooner b/c of the LC diet, usually about 45 min I start to feel 'different'
energy coming out. It doesn't seem to be second-wind (whatever that is),
b/c That seems to come at 20 minutes.

As most know, I just spent 2 weeks at the beach on a fun biking vacation,
taking advantage of the flats to do some speed work. During that time I
lived with my brother who is hard-core LC. For the main course we had
mostly protein, cheese, nuts and milk. For snacks we munched on raw
veggies: celery, turnips, peppers, radish, mushroom, onion, cauliflower,
and cucumbers but not huge quantities - a handfull a 2-3 times a day.

Anyway, on this diet (no obvious carbs, is what I call it), we cycled 150
miles for two weeks, average speed on the flats 16-17mph, ending up with a
20 miler with avg speeds of 18-19mph. That's not -really fast-, but there's
some heavy breathing involved on the false flats.

Before going on a long ride (20-30miles), I'd eat three small pieces of
candy before the ride - no good reason - but maybe thinking 'glucose
pre-load'. If food is digested more slowly when exercising, I figured it
would be timed to hit the bloodsteam in the glucose window, or at ~90
minutes.

At no time did I bonk, or anything and at 12 miles, typically had a surge
of energy, even on shorter rides with no 'candy' supplementation.

I did lose 11lbs, though, and waistline decreased 2 inches. Quads diameter
increased 3/4 of an inch. (I call it a 'whoosh', b/c it happened over a 3
day period, beginning of week 2, where it just dropped off). I remember
waking up in the morning and looking in the mirror and thinking 'hey I look
different!' - one of the often reported features of the LC diet, btw).

So, for me, it's a diet that I can work with. I could be all wrong on the
'reasons' postulated above - that's just the current working hypothesis.
;-)

-B

 

[DRS]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 01:00:29 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>> below 80 gm/day. Veggies have a lot of complex carbs.
>>
>> Quite so. And Atkins encourages people to eat them. It's against
>> high GI starchy vegetables like potatoes but leafy green vegetables
>> and the like are not just approved but recommended and I wish people
>> would stop trying to pretend otherwise.
>
> What might be fun is to create a 'low carb diet for athletes', taking
> into account the glucose window (time window on either side of an
> activity spike), and supporting some theory on how 'being in a keto
> burning phase' (if there is such a thing) enables or inhibits
> modestly active exercising.

What's the point? Endurance athletes need carbs. They can also, in
general, tolerate them better than your average couch potato. The more you
exercise the higher your insulin sensitivity.

--

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[Badger_South]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 03:44:30 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 01:00:29 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> below 80 gm/day. Veggies have a lot of complex carbs.
>>>
>>> Quite so. And Atkins encourages people to eat them. It's against
>>> high GI starchy vegetables like potatoes but leafy green vegetables
>>> and the like are not just approved but recommended and I wish people
>>> would stop trying to pretend otherwise.
>>
>> What might be fun is to create a 'low carb diet for athletes', taking
>> into account the glucose window (time window on either side of an
>> activity spike), and supporting some theory on how 'being in a keto
>> burning phase' (if there is such a thing) enables or inhibits
>> modestly active exercising.
>
>What's the point? Endurance athletes need carbs. They can also, in
>general, tolerate them better than your average couch potato. The more you
>exercise the higher your insulin sensitivity.

The point is even endurance athletes of the recreational variety need to
shed fat. Plus, you know as well as I that there are more and more of them
using LC diets.

In addition, in order to not fall into the carbo addiction zone, I try to
stay in ketosis most of the time.

Finally, it shuts up the critics who say 'carbs are a dietary requirement'.

-B

 

[DRS]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 03:44:30 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
> wrote:

[...]

>> What's the point? Endurance athletes need carbs. They can also, in
>> general, tolerate them better than your average couch potato. The
>> more you exercise the higher your insulin sensitivity.
>
> The point is even endurance athletes of the recreational variety need
> to shed fat. Plus, you know as well as I that there are more and more
> of them using LC diets.

Which is not necessarily optimal.

> In addition, in order to not fall into the carbo addiction zone, I
> try to stay in ketosis most of the time.

I'm not a fan of the "carb addiction" theory.

> Finally, it shuts up the critics who say 'carbs are a dietary
> requirement'.

They are. And I say that as a fully paid-up member of both the High Protein
Is Good For You Fan Club and the Dietary Fats Are Not The Enemy
Consciousness Raising Group.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

 

[Badger_South]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 06:00:29 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 03:44:30 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>>> What's the point? Endurance athletes need carbs. They can also, in
>>> general, tolerate them better than your average couch potato. The
>>> more you exercise the higher your insulin sensitivity.
>>
>> The point is even endurance athletes of the recreational variety need
>> to shed fat. Plus, you know as well as I that there are more and more
>> of them using LC diets.
>
>Which is not necessarily optimal.

Cites? I'm starting to think that -only- ultra endurance athletes _must_ go
to carbs (Gu and other liquid types). This would be ultramarathoning,
adventure racing, and multi-day bike races. They might do better on a mix
of carbs and liquid (?) protein. By liquid protein, I mean high quality
whey, in super easy digestible form, if there is such a thing. This is b/c
those types of athletes have G-I difficulties almost by default.

But for 2-3 hour bike riding at recreational levels (sub-25mph flats), I'm
not convinced. At least it doesn't seem to be crucial in my experiment of
one. The key is if I can get this working for me, it may be a great fat
loss regime. I'm going to try packing a whey protein drink when I do my
long ride in the fall and see how that works in preventing bonk. There's a
small amt of carbs in those, and some in the milk, but that's OK.

>> In addition, in order to not fall into the carbo addiction zone, I
>> try to stay in ketosis most of the time.
>
>I'm not a fan of the "carb addiction" theory.

You obviously don't suffer from it. Good job...er, but I know I do. I'm the
'can't eat just one' posterchild once I get off plan. YMMV. Frankly, I
don't care if it's true for others. Once I figured it out I was able to
drop all the 'blame yourself' aspects of being overfat.

>
>> Finally, it shuts up the critics who say 'carbs are a dietary
>> requirement'.
>
>They are. And I say that as a fully paid-up member of both the High Protein
>Is Good For You Fan Club and the Dietary Fats Are Not The Enemy
>Consciousness Raising Group.

Cites? Carbs are not a dietary requirement. You know the body makes glucose
via gluconeogenesis. Cut out virtually all carbs, no problem. Cut out
virtually all fats and you die. Cut out all protein, you get sick. I'm
surprised at you arguing this. But it doesn't matter, really. They may be a
requirement for you. The reaction here is not on that. It's a reaction
against the government telling us we had to eat 10-12 servings of bread and
cereal and pasta and potatoes every day for so many years.

When I don't eat this stuff I feel better, don't get sleepy midday, and my
waistline goes down. I've made my choice.

-B

 

[Bob in CT]

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 16:28:08 -0400, Badger_South <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 06:00:29 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 03:44:30 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> What's the point? Endurance athletes need carbs. They can also, in
>>>> general, tolerate them better than your average couch potato. The
>>>> more you exercise the higher your insulin sensitivity.
>>>
>>> The point is even endurance athletes of the recreational variety need
>>> to shed fat. Plus, you know as well as I that there are more and more
>>> of them using LC diets.
>>
>> Which is not necessarily optimal.
>
> Cites? I'm starting to think that -only- ultra endurance athletes _must_
> go
> to carbs (Gu and other liquid types). This would be ultramarathoning,
> adventure racing, and multi-day bike races. They might do better on a mix
> of carbs and liquid (?) protein. By liquid protein, I mean high quality
> whey, in super easy digestible form, if there is such a thing. This is
> b/c
> those types of athletes have G-I difficulties almost by default.
>
> But for 2-3 hour bike riding at recreational levels (sub-25mph flats),
> I'm
> not convinced. At least it doesn't seem to be crucial in my experiment of
> one. The key is if I can get this working for me, it may be a great fat
> loss regime. I'm going to try packing a whey protein drink when I do my
> long ride in the fall and see how that works in preventing bonk. There's
> a
> small amt of carbs in those, and some in the milk, but that's OK.

I certainly use much less in the way of carbs now then I used to, and I
have no problems for 4-5 hour bike rides. This year will be my first
century. I think that the vast majority of time, you're really burning a
large amount of fat anyway. I highly recommend whey protein with a bit of
corn sugar (aka dextrose, one form of glucose). This settles my stomach
on long rides.

>>> In addition, in order to not fall into the carbo addiction zone, I
>>> try to stay in ketosis most of the time.
>>
>> I'm not a fan of the "carb addiction" theory.
>
> You obviously don't suffer from it. Good job...er, but I know I do. I'm
> the
> 'can't eat just one' posterchild once I get off plan. YMMV. Frankly, I
> don't care if it's true for others. Once I figured it out I was able to
> drop all the 'blame yourself' aspects of being overfat.

Some people aren't addicted to carbs, and I personally believe this is due
to insulin response. For those of us with poor insulin regulation, we get
addicted to carbs because they're like a drug -- they take us up then they
cause us to crash and we need more.

>>
>>> Finally, it shuts up the critics who say 'carbs are a dietary
>>> requirement'.
>>
>> They are. And I say that as a fully paid-up member of both the High
>> Protein
>> Is Good For You Fan Club and the Dietary Fats Are Not The Enemy
>> Consciousness Raising Group.
>
> Cites? Carbs are not a dietary requirement. You know the body makes
> glucose
> via gluconeogenesis. Cut out virtually all carbs, no problem. Cut out
> virtually all fats and you die. Cut out all protein, you get sick. I'm
> surprised at you arguing this. But it doesn't matter, really. They may
> be a
> requirement for you. The reaction here is not on that. It's a reaction
> against the government telling us we had to eat 10-12 servings of bread
> and
> cereal and pasta and potatoes every day for so many years.
>
> When I don't eat this stuff I feel better, don't get sleepy midday, and
> my
> waistline goes down. I've made my choice.
>
> -B
>
>

I think the Gov't should get out of saying what people should eat. This
"daily requirement" **** is total BS. I don't eat anywhere near those
guidelines, and I feel great.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

 

[Terry Morse]

Badger_South wrote:

> The point is even endurance athletes of the recreational variety need to
> shed fat.

Some do, some don't. I'm vigilant daily to make sure I get enough
calories.

> Plus, you know as well as I that there are more and more of them
> using LC diets.

A few quotes from Chris Carmichael, famous training guru and author
of a new diet book for athletes, _Food_for_Fitness_:

"To think carbs make you fat is wrong. You're fat because you're not
exercising...Low-carb diets are exactly what you should not do if
you're active...If you're working out five days a week, you need a
minimum 60 percent of carbs a day. You need protein to help you
recover after your work out, and you need fat to help you digest
those carbs. You can't just cut carbs--or cut protein or fat, for
that matter--like every trendy diet has for the last 20 years.
That's dysfunctional. You need them all. To simply blame a food type
for us being fat is bull****."
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Badger_South]

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 15:25:25 -0700, Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:

>Badger_South wrote:
>
>> The point is even endurance athletes of the recreational variety need to
>> shed fat.
>
>Some do, some don't. I'm vigilant daily to make sure I get enough
>calories.
>
>> Plus, you know as well as I that there are more and more of them
>> using LC diets.
>
>A few quotes from Chris Carmichael, famous training guru and author
>of a new diet book for athletes, _Food_for_Fitness_:
>
>"To think carbs make you fat is wrong. You're fat because you're not
>exercising...Low-carb diets are exactly what you should not do if
>you're active...If you're working out five days a week, you need a
>minimum 60 percent of carbs a day. You need protein to help you
>recover after your work out, and you need fat to help you digest
>those carbs. You can't just cut carbs--or cut protein or fat, for
>that matter--like every trendy diet has for the last 20 years.
>That's dysfunctional. You need them all. To simply blame a food type
>for us being fat is bull****."

Why are you, a tiny skinny person even participating in a LC thread? ;-p

Or in _any_ diet thread for that matter? We -already know- you can eat
anything and not gain weight.

You can quote all the Carmichael you want. My experience is different.
Eating carbs makes me gain fat. YMMV.

-B

 

[Roger Zoul]

Bob in CT wrote:
|| On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:17:52 -0400, Marlene Blanshay
|| <[email protected]> wrote:
||
|||
||| "Roger Zoul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
||| news:[email protected]...
|||| Claire Petersky wrote:
|||||| "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
|||||| news:[email protected]...
||||||| the black rose <[email protected]> wrote:
|||||||| Avocados make my mouth itch and get blisters, which means no
|||||||| guacamole. Hardly the same scale as being forbidden baklava.
|||||||
||||||| mon dieu! i would sooner starve to death than live a life
||||||| without avacados. baklava is certainly tasty but avacados are
||||||| something else entirely. a gift from the gods for vegetarians.
||||||| it's up there with portabello mushrooms and eggplants.
||||||| incomparable to a mere dessert.
||||||
|||||| I believe that avocados are also recommended to cyclists because
|||||| of their vitamin and especially potassium content -- higher than
|||||| bananas. Of course, it's their fat content that makes them so
|||||| tasty -- but isn't it one of those "good" fats?
||||
|||| Yes.
||| I LOVE avocados- I can just sit and eat one like an apple.
|||
|||
||
|| I ate a low fat diet for so long that avocados are something
|| verboten. However, now that I'm on low carb, I'm going to see if
|| they are any good.

They are great!

 

[the black rose]

Badger_South wrote:
> Cites? Carbs are not a dietary requirement. You know the body makes glucose
> via gluconeogenesis.

But not very much, and not very fast. This is basic anatomy (I could
rummage around the attic looking for my college textbooks if you insist,
but please don't make me, the info is readily available). The liver
*can* convert fats and proteins into blood glucose, but only at a rate
of about 100 gms per day. 400 calories, that's all. That's not very
much, and you can burn it all and then some in a single ride; it's
certainly not anything like enough to replenish your glycogen stores AND
provide energy to your brain and nervous system AND provide immediate
energy needs for current activity. Plus, the brain and nervous system
run on glucose. Period. Only glucose.

Just because the body can synthesize small amounts of glucose doesn't
mean that carbohydrates aren't a dietary requirement, no matter what the
LC gurus say. The body can only make glycogen from glucose, and the
liver can't convert enough in a day for all your needs if you exercise.

BTW, in my rootling around, I stumbled across the FAQ for
alt.support.diet.low-carb. They put exercise in the "Troubleshooting
and Stumbling Blocks" section, and currently have NO entry written for
it, just the subsection title. I just found that amusing.

What I found horrifying was the site called the "Low Carb Pavilion"
(google on "low carb diets" and it'll be near the top) which summarizes
the main low carb diets and asserts that low carb dieters should get 60
to 70% of their calories from fat. That's just... disgusting.
Heartburn hell. Not to mention severaly lacking in fiber -- let's just
constipate America, why don't we. Gimme a nice crunchy carrot or a
juicy orange any day (what a pity that carrots are on their Restricted
list and oranges along with the rest of the citrus fruits AND BANANAS
are on their Not Allowed list -- okay, so I'm smirking shamelessly at
that one...). :-D

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

 

[Chris BeHanna]

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 15:35:44 +0000, the black rose wrote:

> Mike Schwab wrote:
>> Low carb is not no carb. Actually, you want good carbs in un0refined
>> foods where the carbs are slowly absorbed into the blood stream. Bad
>> carbs to avoid are like sugar, fruit juice, potatoes where the carbs are
>> quickly absorbed and stored as fat.
>
> Carbs are only stored as fat if you don't use 'em. If your glycogen
> stores need replenishing, that's where they go first.

I was doing Atkins for awhile, and since taking up bicycling
rather seriously, I've stopped fretting about eating carbs in
moderation. Even my once-weekly pizza binge hasn't stopped me from
losing inches in my waist. My weight loss stopped, though, which I
attribute to an increase in muscle mass in my legs. No worries.

These days, I'm noshing on fruits more than I was on Atkins, and I
keep granola bars handy for during and after long rides. After a
workout, I consume a generously-prepared PB&J before I stretch, so
that I can take advantage of that post-workout recovery window (a
single PB&J falls a wee bit shy of 1g/kg of carbs and 0.5g/kg of
protein, but I can make up for that easily enough).

I'm not sure if I read it in one of Carmichaels's books or not,
but insulin, for all of its evils when you constantly wash your body
in it, is an anabolic hormone: it helps you utilize the protein in
your diet to repair your muscles. This is why the carb/protein
post-workout meal is so important: you need the carbs to replenish
your glycogen, and you can bring the protein along for the ride, using
the insulin response from the carbs to help rebuild your muscles.

What the hell; it works for me, and I am *thrilled* to be able to
eat PB&J's again.

I'm somewhat less than thrilled that I get the theme song from
"PB&J Otter" stuck in my head.

--
Chris BeHanna
Software Engineer (Remove "allspammersmustdie" before responding.)
[email protected]
I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

 

[Badger_South]

On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 02:33:56 GMT, the black rose
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Badger_South wrote:
>> Cites? Carbs are not a dietary requirement. You know the body makes glucose
>> via gluconeogenesis.
>
>But not very much, and not very fast. This is basic anatomy (I could
>rummage around the attic looking for my college textbooks if you insist,
>but please don't make me, the info is readily available). The liver
>*can* convert fats and proteins into blood glucose, but only at a rate
>of about 100 gms per day. 400 calories, that's all. That's not very
>much, and you can burn it all and then some in a single ride; it's
>certainly not anything like enough to replenish your glycogen stores AND
>provide energy to your brain and nervous system AND provide immediate
>energy needs for current activity. Plus, the brain and nervous system
>run on glucose. Period. Only glucose

Guess I'm a medical miracle, then.

-B

 

[Mike VM]

the black rose <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Badger_South wrote:
> > Cites? Carbs are not a dietary requirement. You know the body makes glucose
> > via gluconeogenesis.
>
> But not very much, and not very fast. This is basic anatomy (I could
> rummage around the attic looking for my college textbooks if you insist,
> but please don't make me, the info is readily available). The liver
> *can* convert fats and proteins into blood glucose, but only at a rate
> of about 100 gms per day. 400 calories, that's all. That's not very
> much, and you can burn it all and then some in a single ride; it's
> certainly not anything like enough to replenish your glycogen stores AND
> provide energy to your brain and nervous system AND provide immediate
> energy needs for current activity. Plus, the brain and nervous system
> run on glucose. Period. Only glucose.
>
> Just because the body can synthesize small amounts of glucose doesn't
> mean that carbohydrates aren't a dietary requirement, no matter what the
> LC gurus say. The body can only make glycogen from glucose, and the
> liver can't convert enough in a day for all your needs if you exercise.

Firstly, I would say that I am very much against low carb diets.

I just don't understand how anyone can go around with their breath
smelling like that!

If your breath doesn't smell bad, (to other people), then your diet
isn't *too* low carb.

For me, unless there are compeling medical reasons to do otherwise, I
would always go for the simplest option: A balanced low calorie diet.

Having said that, there must be something wrong with your assertion
above, because I am on a reduced calorie diet (~1200 kcal per day),
and yet I can cycle 3 hours (~13/16 mph) and walk 2 hours (4 mph) a
day, day after day - and I weigh ~ 230lbs. This has been going on for
weeks now, so it's not some transient use of carb stores.

I understood that muscles can use fatty acids that are continually
released into and adsorbed from the blood stream from fat tissue. I
certainly don't suffer from fatigue (although I do like a bit of a sit
down after a 2hr ride! ), and yet I have a very significant calorie
deficit each day. I most certainly do not eat enough carbs to fuel the
excercise I do.

 

[DRS]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

[...]

> You can quote all the Carmichael you want. My experience is different.
> Eating carbs makes me gain fat. YMMV.

No, ingesting more calories than you expend makes you fat. If you ingest
them in the form of carbs then so be it but carbs per se are not the
problem, eating too many of them is.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

 

[Badger_South]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:29:51 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>
>[...]
>
>> You can quote all the Carmichael you want. My experience is different.
>> Eating carbs makes me gain fat. YMMV.
>
>No, ingesting more calories than you expend makes you fat. If you ingest
>them in the form of carbs then so be it but carbs per se are not the
>problem, eating too many of them is.

Correct. I should have said, at my age, if I start eating carbs again, my
carb addiction will kick in and I'll probably regain the fat I lost.

-B

 

[DRS]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 06:00:29 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]

[...]

>>> The point is even endurance athletes of the recreational variety
>>> need to shed fat. Plus, you know as well as I that there are more
>>> and more of them using LC diets.
>>
>> Which is not necessarily optimal.
>
> Cites?

Think about what you just said. The idea that LC could be optimal for
endurance athletes is ludicrous. Even Lyle McDonald, author of "The
Ketogenic Diet" and "The Ultimate Diet" says endurance athletes need carbs.
Read http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/articles/nutrition/diets_compare2.php
and then hunt around his site for more articles.

[...]

>>> Finally, it shuts up the critics who say 'carbs are a dietary
>>> requirement'.
>>
>> They are. And I say that as a fully paid-up member of both the High
>> Protein Is Good For You Fan Club and the Dietary Fats Are Not The
>> Enemy Consciousness Raising Group.
>
> Cites? Carbs are not a dietary requirement.

Try eating *no* carbs and see how well you get on.

> You know the body makes
> glucose via gluconeogenesis.

It's not very efficient. Carbs are the body's preferred source of glucose.
It's metabolically far more efficient to get them that way, from protein is
the least efficient.

[...]

> really. They may be a requirement for you. The reaction here is not
> on that. It's a reaction against the government telling us we had to
> eat 10-12 servings of bread and cereal and pasta and potatoes every
> day for so many years.

The USDA has a less retarded version of the Food Pyramid up for discussion
at the moment. It's still irrationally biased against red meats but it's
better than the current one. I think they're still open to public comments
for the next couple of weeks.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

 

[DRS]

"the black rose" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]

[...]

> What I found horrifying was the site called the "Low Carb Pavilion"
> (google on "low carb diets" and it'll be near the top) which
> summarizes the main low carb diets and asserts that low carb dieters
> should get 60 to 70% of their calories from fat.

Heh. I know you need dietary fats to go into ketosis but that's just silly.


> That's just...
> disgusting. Heartburn hell. Not to mention severaly lacking in fiber

Psyllium husks.

> -- let's just constipate America, why don't we. Gimme a nice crunchy
> carrot or a juicy orange any day (what a pity that carrots are on
> their Restricted list and oranges along with the rest of the citrus
> fruits AND BANANAS are on their Not Allowed list -- okay, so I'm
> smirking shamelessly at that one...). :-D

Jesus wept, bananas have to be the single healthiest fruit on the planet.

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[DRS]

"Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:29:51 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> "Badger_South" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> You can quote all the Carmichael you want. My experience is
>>> different. Eating carbs makes me gain fat. YMMV.
>>
>> No, ingesting more calories than you expend makes you fat. If you
>> ingest them in the form of carbs then so be it but carbs per se are
>> not the problem, eating too many of them is.
>
> Correct. I should have said, at my age, if I start eating carbs
> again, my carb addiction will kick in and I'll probably regain the
> fat I lost.

It's a hugely important point. Fat gain or loss is always ultimately about
energy management and any diet "guru" who tries to tell you otherwise is a
con artist. It can't be emphasised enough.

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[Badger_South]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:43:11 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Think about what you just said. The idea that LC could be optimal for
>endurance athletes is ludicrous. Even Lyle McDonald, author of "The
>Ketogenic Diet" and "The Ultimate Diet" says endurance athletes need carbs.
>Read http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/articles/nutrition/diets_compare2.php
>and then hunt around his site for more articles.

Well, it's becoming more in vogue to try it, in fact in the latest issue of
the Outdoor and sports magazine they now have a column on 'LC for
athletes', and on tv the governor of Arkansas just touted the 'no sugar, no
bread' part of his diet, in addition to jogging and lost over 100lbs.

But, of course just b/c it's in print or on the tube doesn't make it true.

I don't know that I said LC is optimal. I just wondered if it could be used
as the diet of choice for the recreational athlete, like me. Preliminary
results don't show any problems, but it's not scientific, just off the
cuff. I realize it's not widely accepted, even among LC fans.

BTW, I've got Lyle's book; first edition, 1998.

-B

 

[Badger_South]

On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:43:11 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Cites? Carbs are not a dietary requirement.
>
>Try eating *no* carbs and see how well you get on.

Since you seem to know the answer, how well?

It's pretty hard to not eat any carbs - you get some in many 'protein'
sources, like cheese and eggs and milk. But that doesn't make them a
dietary requirement.

-B