Pre-race day meals

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Charthousemtg, Feb 28, 2004.

  1. Running a marathon relay tommorow - any suggestions for meals today?
     
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  2. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    [email protected] (Charthousemtg) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Running a marathon relay tommorow - any suggestions for meals today?
    >

    Need more info. What distance will you be running? What are you used to eating the day before
    running such a distance? I wouldn't eat anything that you wouldn't normally be eating.

    Phil

    --
    Sometimes men come by the name of genius in the same way that certain arthropods come by the name of
    centipede, not because they have a hundred feet, but because most people can't count above fourteen.
    - Georg C.
     
  3. Running an 8 mile portion - longest race I've run in about 5 years....someone said I should skip the
    "pasta dinner" tonight - lot of protein today
     
  4. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    [email protected] (Charthousemtg) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Running an 8 mile portion - longest race I've run in about 5 years....someone said I should skip
    > the "pasta dinner" tonight - lot of protein today
    >

    I wouldn't eat anything unusual. Why take a chance? With an 8 mile run, I see no need to alter your
    usual diet. Go to the pasta dinner, if you like. However, don't over eat.

    As for the idea that you need *extra* protein today, that sounds like an old theory from the
    football trainers of the 50s and 60s. That has long ago been proven bad advise.

    Phil

    --
    Some minds are like concrete: mixed up and permanently set. -­­ Ralph Sander
     
  5. Amh

    Amh Guest

    [email protected] (Charthousemtg) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Running a marathon relay tommorow - any suggestions for meals today?

    What did you do when you were training for the race? Do that.

    Training for a race isn't limited to running. It includes what foods work best, what hydration
    method works best, what pacing works best, what energy drink/gel/bar works best, what warm up works
    best, what shoes work best, what shorts work best, what sunglasses work best....

    If you haven't answered any of these questions before your race you didn't train you ran.

    Andy
     
  6. OK - so I ran....

    I was looking for INPUT not criticism....Thanks for those who were HELPFUL in their responses
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, amh wrote:
    > [email protected] (Charthousemtg) wrote in message news:<[email protected]
    > m20.aol.com>...
    >> Running a marathon relay tommorow - any suggestions for meals today?
    >
    > What did you do when you were training for the race? Do that.
    >
    > Training for a race isn't limited to running. It includes what foods work best, what hydration
    > method works best, what pacing works best, what energy drink/gel/bar works best, what warm up
    > works best, what shoes work best, what shorts work best, what sunglasses work best....
    >
    > If you haven't answered any of these questions before your race you didn't train you ran.

    This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    fully simulate racing conditions in training. For a start, you are running much faster in a race
    than you are in training, which in itself makes a huge difference. The logistics and travel are also
    different.

    IMO the best training for racing *is* racing. That is, if you're doing a big important race, you
    will greatly benefit by also running smaller (in importance) "low stakes" races where you can do
    your experimentation. Races aren't necessarily separate from training, they are part of it. The more
    key races are a sort of pinnacle or climatic ending to a solid session of training.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>, Charthousemtg wrote:
    > now THATS a constructive answer - Thank you!
    >
    > (I had pasta w/chicken and a small lean burger the night before)
    >
    > 2 scrambled eggs and toast 4 hours before, and a protein bar 1 hour before the start.
    >
    > Started to feel the "bonk" effect the last mile, but it was a beautiful day (50 degrees) and
    > seeing my 12 year old and my niece a mile from the finish pushed me through it.

    One thing worth trying -- that is supported by what's known about nutrition, is taking a high
    glycemic index carb meal (bagel, bread, etc) without taking much fat (reduces glycemic index). Carbs
    are a scarce source of fuel that one depends on heavily in a race setting.

    Taking protein *before* an event probably will not help much (though it won't hurt either), but
    taking some *after* may be a good idea.

    My pre-race ritual (long races anyway) includes a bagel and/or waffles at breakfast time, then a
    "dry" bagel about 1hr from the race. The amount of fat I have in the pre-race breakfast depends on
    how far back it is. If it was as far as 4hrs before the race, I would just have my normal meal. But
    that's me.

    You'll need to run some more races to work out what works best for you. Some people can't eat half
    an hour before a race like I can, some like to run shorter races on an empty stomach (I don't), etc.
    Carbs are an important source of energy for everyone, but when it comes to what is compatible with
    our stomachs, we truly are each an "experiment of one".

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  9. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

    >
    > This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    > fully simulate racing conditions in training.

    True but you can find out if the green Gatorbarf they will serve race day makes you barf when doing
    a race pace training run.

    > IMO the best training for racing *is* racing.

    True for short distances but the question was raised for a marathon which you typically don't run
    before race day. For 5 and 10k's this logic holds but not for a marathon.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>, Doug Freese wrote:
    >
    >
    > Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    >> fully simulate racing conditions in training.
    >
    > True but you can find out if the green Gatorbarf they will serve race day makes you barf when
    > doing a race pace training run.
    >
    >
    >> IMO the best training for racing *is* racing.
    >
    > True for short distances but the question was raised for a marathon

    he was running a leg of a marathon relay. Not the same thing.

    > which you typically don't run before race day. For 5 and 10k's this logic holds but not for a
    > marathon.

    The distance you use for the practice race doesn't have to be the same as the race distance, but
    closer is better. That's why people do half marathons as marathon prep. For marathons, I'll grant
    you that the long runs are also an important part of race preparation. Even for marathons, I doubt
    the ordinary training run is much good as practice for the race.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  11. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

    > This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    > fully simulate racing conditions in training. For a start, you are running much faster in a race
    > than you are in training, which in itself makes a huge difference. The logistics and travel are
    > also different.
    >
    > IMO the best training for racing *is* racing. That is, if you're doing a big important race, you
    > will greatly benefit by also running smaller (in importance) "low stakes" races where you can do
    > your experimentation.

    As a different perspective, using races for training may work where you are and for your schedule,
    but for someone tight on time, it may be much more efficient to do the homework and train by
    simulating things, IMHO - at least where I am. I sure don't want to drive some place, pay money for
    a race, and get sick because I didn't try something before hand. And nobody here can tell me what
    will stay in my stomach or work for me. There's no guarantee that what works in training will work
    in race situation, esp. if it's much warmer on race day than when you trained, but I think it
    increases the probabilities of success to have tested. But an accumulation of training runs over
    seasons and years will provide a better idea of what may work under various conditions. And on any
    given day, it may not.

    A race, at least where I am and probably many others, usually requires 2-3 hr rt driving plus
    waiting for it to start - about 4 dead hours (for 40 min to 2.25 hr events) - plus entry fees and
    sometimes parking fees. I've gotten far more effective use of training time by doing my homework on
    the course layout and simulating as best I can - right down to eating and start time. (hill training
    can be close to puke levels, even in training) Granted, I live very close to some challenging trails
    and get more effective training there than in many races.

    Things may be a little different on race day, but there are far more opportunities to test
    variabilities on training runs than in races. This increases the number of tools at my disposal. I
    like redundancy in systems (types of food), and I'm only going to get that by training with them. I
    think one of the most deceiving things about some training schedules is that they give the
    impression that training is only a matter of running miles at various paces and efforts.

    FWIW, what I've found works best for me before races or training is to eat the same thing I normally
    do. That may change as distances get longer.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  12. Phil M.

    Phil M. Guest

    Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote in news:F5%0c.530$c73.461035
    @twister.nyc.rr.com:

    > If you ever toe the line at an ultra race you will discover no self respecting RD would dare serve
    > that stuff. Even if GA is occasionally served there is a maltodextrin drink sitting side by side
    > along with water, Coke and Mountain Dew.

    It seems many major marathons have Gatorade as one of their sponsors. So I assume that the
    competitor's drinks will not be served. In planning for a fall marathon, I would like to prepare by
    running my long runs with the drink that will be served for the marathon. In this case, that would
    be Gatorade. I personally don't have a digestion problem with the stuff. However, if it is true that
    Gatorade is not very good, what do you suggest? Carry my own fluid, drink only water, supplement
    water and/or Gatorade with some sort of gel?

    Phil

    --The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. -Walter Bagehot
     
  13. Amh

    Amh Guest

    Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, amh wrote:
    > > [email protected] (Charthousemtg) wrote in message news:<[email protected]
    > > m20.aol.com>...
    > >> Running a marathon relay tommorow - any suggestions for meals today?
    > >
    > > What did you do when you were training for the race? Do that.
    > >
    > > Training for a race isn't limited to running. It includes what foods work best, what hydration
    > > method works best, what pacing works best, what energy drink/gel/bar works best, what warm up
    > > works best, what shoes work best, what shorts work best, what sunglasses work best....
    > >
    > > If you haven't answered any of these questions before your race you didn't train you ran.
    >
    > This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    > fully simulate racing conditions in training. For a start, you

    You can't get up in the morning drive to a location and run 3.1 miles hard without 100 other people
    around you to experiment? Please explain this to me.

    > are running much faster in a race than you are in training, which in itself makes a huge
    > difference. The logistics and travel are also different.

    I'd say slight difference. Is it really that different to run 5 miles hard one day? Does this pale
    in comparison to being in a race so much that nothing can be gained from it? Certainly you can
    figure out what foods will make you vomit, what shirt won't iritate your nipples, what socks feel
    better in your racing shoes and so on.

    >
    > IMO the best training for racing *is* racing. That is, if you're doing a big

    Yes siree, you're right there. No better teacher than experience.

    > important race, you will greatly benefit by also running smaller (in importance) "low stakes"
    > races where you can do your experimentation. Races

    But I think you take racing more seriously than the original poster. For some racing is not high
    competition where personal limits are tested to the max. It is just a chance to run fast and see how
    fast you can go and then hang around collecting post race goodies with friends. I have many friends
    who rate races on raffles and give aways over a course conducive to setting pr's.

    > aren't necessarily separate from training, they are part of it. The more key races are a sort of
    > pinnacle or climatic ending to a solid session of training.
    >
    Whatever the reason if you're asking "what should I eat the night before a race?" a week before the
    race itself indicates some lack of forethought.

    Andy

    > Cheers,
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, amh wrote:

    >> This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    >> fully simulate racing conditions in training. For a start, you
    >
    > You can't get up in the morning drive to a location and run 3.1 miles hard without 100 other
    > people around you to experiment? Please explain this to me.

    If you're going to do this, why not pay the entry fee and enter a race ?

    For people who don't have readily available races, this is the next best thing, but if you are
    living in a place where races are held regularly, then it seems silly to do all the work when you
    could enter the real thing.

    Also, there are annoying details and administrivia that don't come up until race day (e.g. using the
    bathroom before the lines get too long, picking up your race packet, etc)

    >> are running much faster in a race than you are in training, which in itself makes a huge
    >> difference. The logistics and travel are also different.
    >
    > I'd say slight difference. Is it really that different to run 5 miles hard one day? Does this pale
    > in comparison to being in a race so much that nothing can be gained from it?

    I'd say that a race is closer to a race than a 5 mile training run. I'd also dare point out that you
    probably will not push yourself as hard in the training run. I remember when my fiancee was starting
    out, she used to run about 2min/mile faster in races than in training, even though she was just
    planning to finish the races. Most people will always run faster in a race than in training.

    > Certainly you can figure out what foods will make you vomit,

    If you run really hard, yes. But even then, this is only true if you time everything exactly as you
    would on race day. That means you have to get up at the same time as you would in a race situation,
    get to the race location, etc 30 min early (if you would in a "real race"), eat breakfast, etc.

    > what shirt won't iritate your nipples, what socks feel better in your racing shoes and so on.

    Again, you'll need to run pretty hard to test all of these. Which begs the question -- why not just
    enter a race ?

    If you're going to
    (1) get up early
    (2) eat exactly as you would on race day
    (3) get to the race location half an hour early
    (4) run as you would in a race,
    (5) wearing your racing clothes, and all

    then would it not be simpler to just enter a race ? What is gained from this simulation ?

    >> IMO the best training for racing *is* racing. That is, if you're doing a big
    >
    > Yes siree, you're right there. No better teacher than experience.
    >
    >> important race, you will greatly benefit by also running smaller (in importance) "low stakes"
    >> races where you can do your experimentation. Races
    >
    > But I think you take racing more seriously than the original poster.

    If you're not taking the race as seriously, then the answer is much simpler: just view the race as a
    training run/experiment/learning experience.

    > For some racing is not high competition where personal limits are tested to the max. It is just a
    > chance to run fast and see how fast you can go and then hang around collecting post race goodies
    > with friends.

    For those people, I would argue that such meticulous preparation as attempting to accurately
    simulate race conditions is a waste of time.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  15. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:

    First off GA has sucrose which for many does
    > in fact cause gastric problems leading to reverse peristalsis, aka barfing.

    I thought it was fructose that's the problem - or am I remembering wrong?

    Now we know that many people finish a marathon in various stages
    > of hyponatremia and swill like GA is not helping.

    and because of the strong (at least for me and *many* others) flavoring, people dilute it by 2:1 or
    more - further aggravating the situation.

    But the bottom line on salt is you need to take additional to any drink anyway.

    > Like SUV's shown crossing rugged streams and climbing rocky gorges. Ever wonder how many people
    > use their 20-60 thousand dollar SUVs like that?

    It's unfortunate what they've done to what used to be decent utility vehicles. Some models (some
    jeeps, landcruisers, landrovers, and I think broncos and blazers) existed before the SUV mania. Some
    of the workhorses are used for search and rescue, first responders, etc. But yea, the thought of
    olds or lincoln suv is really laughable.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  16. Amh

    Amh Guest

    [email protected] (Charthousemtg) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > OK - so I ran....
    >
    > I was looking for INPUT not criticism....Thanks for those who were HELPFUL in their responses

    I gave you input. Do what you were doing in the time leading up to the event. The same advice others
    gave you. I added additional information for you to better prepare yourself for the next race. If
    you wish to view it as criticism then that is your choice.

    I thought I was helpful since I also gave you the added bonus of learning more about training.

    Sorry to be of such little assistance.

    Andy
     
  17. Amh

    Amh Guest

    Donovan Rebbechi <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In article <[email protected]>, amh wrote:
    >
    > >> This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    > >> fully simulate racing conditions in training. For a start, you
    > >
    > > You can't get up in the morning drive to a location and run 3.1 miles hard without 100 other
    > > people around you to experiment? Please explain this to me.
    >
    > If you're going to do this, why not pay the entry fee and enter a race ?

    If I want to experiment with a pre race drink or some such thing I'm not going to pay a $20 entry
    fee twice just to find out if one drink works better than another. I'm not saying that you can't or
    shouldn't enter a race to experiment but that you don't need to enter a race every time you want to
    try something out.

    > Also, there are annoying details and administrivia that don't come up until race day (e.g. using
    > the bathroom before the lines get too long, picking up your race packet, etc)

    Valid, but I think minor detail and certainly not a great concern if you get to the start well
    ahead of time.
    >
    > Again, you'll need to run pretty hard to test all of these. Which begs the question -- why not
    > just enter a race ?

    I'm arguing that it is better to test things out frequently and when it convenient to you. And won't
    interfere with a planned training run. Why wait for a race?

    Keeping in mind that we both live in the NYC area where we can find up to 10 races every weekend.

    You prefer races to make sure everything is working for you. I can learn the same thing from race
    simulations. Somewhere in between is what will work for others.

    The point of this whole discussion is: experiment when the stakes are low so you know what will
    happen when the big day comes.

    Andy
     
  18. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, amh wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>This is one of those pieces of "conventional wisdom", that I don't really agree with. You can't
    >>>fully simulate racing conditions in training. For a start, you
    >>
    >>You can't get up in the morning drive to a location and run 3.1 miles hard without 100 other
    >>people around you to experiment? Please explain this to me.
    >
    >
    > If you're going to do this, why not pay the entry fee and enter a race ?

    1. Why pay an entry fee and enter a race, when you can train for free? Different strokes... (I
    contribute to most of the charities anyway)

    2. Some people prefer running alone, and a few well-chosen races a year on a different trail
    satisfies an interest in races.

    3. Training courses may be more challenging and push runner toward limits that a race course
    wouldn't (depending on training and race courses). Except in one instance, my race times are
    faster than training, primarily because my training courses have been hillier or worse footing or
    measurement differences.

    In the case of the OP where he hadn't raced anything as long as 8 mi in 5 years and is asking the
    day before about eating, it suggests that he's not a heavy racer so using races for training may not
    be a reasonable alternative. Also, if I were a member of a relay team, I'd prefer to do hw ahead of
    time and not be experimenting with basics on race day or day before so I don't let team down. Not
    everyone's a race junkie that has to race every weekend. Even if we had more races, I probably
    wouldn't run them because of the time overhead. I'd rather be on the trails somewhere or run earlier
    in the morning.

    I'm assuming the OP was talking about a road marathon, but as an aside: One reason to enter a race
    rather than training alone (other than social considerations) - in case of trails, anyway, but only
    after doing preliminary homework - is for safety and convenience. More people around; hopefully
    bears will go elsewhere; if something happens, someone more likely to be around to assist or at
    least will notice you missing sooner; car shuttles for point-to-point races, etc. But *I* will
    certainly train as best I can before getting into this type situation. Some of this can also be
    achieved with group runs rather than races.

    Also, many (most?) trail races are limited entry, so I wouldn't want to take someone else's spot so
    I could experiment.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  19. In article <[email protected]>, amh wrote:

    > I'm arguing that it is better to test things out frequently and when it convenient to you. And
    > won't interfere with a planned training run. Why wait for a race?
    >
    > Keeping in mind that we both live in the NYC area where we can find up to 10 races every weekend.
    >
    > You prefer races to make sure everything is working for you. I can learn the same thing from race
    > simulations. Somewhere in between is what will work for others.
    >
    > The point of this whole discussion is: experiment when the stakes are low so you know what will
    > happen when the big day comes.

    I agree. What I was trying to say was that racing can be part of the experimentation.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  20. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Phil M. wrote:

    > It seems many major marathons have Gatorade as one of their sponsors. So I assume that the
    > competitor's drinks will not be served.

    I don't think GA says you can't serve other sport drinks. The RD and the volunteers have a hard
    enough time handling plain water and GA much less add other drinks.

    GA loves to be the sponsor to the point the drink is either free or very minimal. This way the
    product is constantly on runner minds. When you go to the store to buy a drink, the odds are you
    will buy GA.

    In planning for a
    > fall marathon, I would like to prepare by running my long runs with the drink that will be served
    > for the marathon. In this case, that would be Gatorade. I personally don't have a digestion
    > problem with the stuff. However, if it is true that Gatorade is not very good, what do you
    > suggest?

    If the stuff does not upset your stomach then by all means drink it and make sure you drink plenty
    and don't speed through aid stations and fail to drink what your body needs. If it's a hot race you
    need more salt then Ga has and supplements may be necessary.

    If it was a hot day I would carry a bottle and fill it at the aid stations and drink continuously in
    small gulps. The speed mongers will cringe at the thought of the extra weight.

    > Carry my own fluid, drink only water, supplement water and/or Gatorade with some sort of gel?

    One of the reasons I like trail races, they offer a wide selection of drinks and food and we carry
    fluids so we can drink between aid stations rather than gulping.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
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