Presidential Candidates and Iraq

Discussion in 'The Bike Cafe' started by JTE83, Jul 10, 2007.

  1. JTE83

    JTE83 Member

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    I haven't been following the Presidential Candidates, how well they are doing, and how this relates to their view on Iraq. Mostly I would go for a candidate that would immediately pull us out of Iraq, or if not that, - leave a small sizeable force that would combat Al Quaida in Iraq. Well, I think John McCain is all for staying in Iraq, I used to beleive in him but not anymore because of this. And isn't his campaign doing bad? I think Iraq was a total waste of the $650 billion we spent there. And then we should have sucked out their oil / no qualms just for rebuilding them and providing for their security.

    The Iraq issue totally sucks and we just have to give up this lost cause. Let the Iraqis have their civil war and let the strongest survive. We did it to ourselve electing Bush again mainly because of a gay issue in Ohio.

    So, can you fill me in on the candidates? I'd vote for Hillary Clinton but actually I haven't heard much of her issue. And I don't understand the hype or popluarity of Obama.
     
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  2. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Try reading. There are all sorts of outlets through which you can read news articles, expert political commentary, and platform analyses.

    As for sucking "out their oil/no qualms," well, that pretty much exemplifies why Americans are oft viewed as the World's biggest assholes.

    If you need a forum to bring you up to speed on political views and ideologies, then you shouldn't be voting.
     
  3. reub2000

    reub2000 New Member

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    I'm for the complete withdrawl of our troops. The Iraqi Secuity Forces just isn't going to happen. No matter what we do, their government will collapse as soon as we withdrawl. Might as well cut our losses in this hopeless war. Besides, we have nothing to gain by "winning" this war.

    I personally support Rep. Ron Paul. I attended a rally in Des Moines about a week ago. This guy knows what he wants, and isn't afraid to speak out. He plans to shrink the federal government, follow every word of the consitution, and it's 27 amendments, eliminate the IRS and income tax, withdrawl our troops from Iraq, and restore the republic.
     
  4. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    That's the sort of stupidity that got the U.S. into Iraq in the first place.

    Oil is fungible. It does not matter where it comes from; the price floats on the open market. The Gulf State producers' populations have grown so much that they no longer have the ability to stop the flow of oil without doing more harm to their own economies that they can do the the West's. The idea of ensuring sources of oil is out of date by a couple of decades. For the price of the Iraq war the U.S. could have built three to six times its current number of nuclear power plants, thus moving the nearly entire U.S. electrical grid to non-oil sources.

    The U.S. does not want to "let the strongest survive." The U.S. policy in the Middle East is to defy the will of the people and keep in place monarchs and dictators friendly to the U.S. while maintaining Israel's ability to oppress the Palestinians. The U.S. will have a devil of a time figuring out how to extract itself from Iraq without Shiites in league with Iran taking control of much of the country, which is one of the nightmare scenarios that keeps evangelical Republicans up at night.

    BTW, I am still looking for any sort of evidence that the U.S. rebuilt Iraq. Most of the pitiful amount of money earmarked for rebuilding went into U.S. corporate pockets. Life in Iraq is far worse under the Bush regime than it ever was under the Saddam regime, and there is no security to speak of; so I don't exactly get why you think these two complete failures should justify the U.S. stealing the country's natural resources.
     
  5. PartisanRanger

    PartisanRanger New Member

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    I daresay some Kurds might disagree with you there.
     
  6. reub2000

    reub2000 New Member

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    True. But who made the U.S. the global vigilante? We don't have the resources to topple every dictator who commits crimes against his citizens.

    What war? War hasn't been declared since World War II.
     
  7. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    You're really hard up for a justification for war when you tout Eritrea as one of your allies.
     
  8. mydaughterchili

    mydaughterchili New Member

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    I also like what Ron Paul has been saying. I was never for this war, but we destroyed Iraq and now we have to fix it. so we cannot just leave.. and guess what, many more people are going to die most of which will be innocent people just trying to live their lives. this is a mess that has no end in sight. so a special thanks to all the fine folks who elected the shrub to begin with.
     
  9. Chavez

    Chavez New Member

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    If someone is interested in intelligent debate and varied opinion, that makes him (or her) MORE than qualified to exercise the right to vote.

    Tons of people are either apathetic and don't even bother to learn, or merely exist in their own echo chamber to re-enforce their own beliefs.

    Kudos to anyone seeking out both (or more) sides of the issues.
     
  10. Chavez

    Chavez New Member

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    The bulk of the US electrical grid is already powered by non-oil sources - coal.

    What the US needs to do is get rid of its fascination with the private automobile, which is easier said than done.
     
  11. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    Slightly less than 50% of the U.S. electrical power comes from coal. Currently nearly all new power plants being built use natural gas.

    Cars are not going away. Large/heavy cars will go away. It makes no sense to haul 4000 pounds of metal a few miles to buy twenty pounds of groceries.
     
  12. mydaughterchili

    mydaughterchili New Member

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    Well stated Sir...
     
  13. reub2000

    reub2000 New Member

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    Public transportation and bike trails
     
  14. mongooseboy

    mongooseboy New Member

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    Without getting political, and since i have no view on the Iraq situation (other than saddam deserved what he got), I agree that Ron Paul is the best candidate for president, even though its unlikely hell get elected. Hillary will destory america, and i dont know anything about obama except that i wont be voting an islam into presidency.

    Ron Paul wants to bring our country back to what our country was founded on. Our country has grown into EXACTLY what the revolutionists were fighting against, high taxes, government controlling everything we do, etc. how many years did it take the federal court system to FINALLY figure out that the absolute ban of weapons in washington DC was unconstitutional? that law should NEVER have been passed, we have a constitutional right, and the mayor of DC should be criminalized for it. Stealing freedoms is the first step to dictatorship.

    and yes, we need to start making biking more popular form of transportation. I cant bike to work, theres nothing but hills between here and work, and its 15 miles. I have no shower at work and i sweat a LOT. however, if it was closer and flat, id be doing it any day it was cool enough in the morning :) Public transportation is a good idea as well, put our tax dollars at HOME if we gotta pay them.

    these thoughts are my opinion. I dont want to hear your opinion on my opinion, keep it to yourself :) thank you.
     
  15. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    Then don't post anything--anywhere.
     
  16. Chavez

    Chavez New Member

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    Again, easier said than done - in my city, we have decent public transport and enough bike lanes, but we also have snow and bitter cold for 3-4 months.
     
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