problem with panniers and racks

[just us]

Well my husband just went bush with his brand new bags
http://www.ivanhoecycles.com.au/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5 which are
the same as those shown in the pic. The bags were great for me when I did a
1700kms ride last year so we invested in another set. The next problem was
that he just couldnt find a rack to suit - he had heel clip no matter which
ones he tried. In the end he STOLE the rack of my 700 for the trip and they
seemed to sit on them nicely without heel clipping. On the first day of a
remote 12 day trip the rack broke, luckily he had trusty cable ties with him
and then one by one all the clips on the bags broke! At that point out came
the fencing wire and the bags were tied to the rack for the remainder of the
trip. In the lead up to this ride he tried several different racks but all
seemed to do the same thing - he had heel clip.He tried other ppls bags and
got heel clip also so it isnt just the bags.
He rides a MTB. I rekon his bike frame just doesnt want to comply - the
bike is a Mongoose Pro Rockadile.
Can anyone suggest a good bike rack for a MTB that doesnt have that problem
and is also very tough? The other guy on the trip has a topeak tourist and
now i have a new one of those also but they were no good on his bike either.
I will be sending the bags back as I think that all 4 clips to break just
isnt good and it should be exchanged under warrenty.

Thanks
Kathy

 

[PeteSig]

How tall is your husband? And does he have a particularly large shoe size?

Many people riding on MTBs can have heel clip problems with rear panniers.
Smaller frames can worsen this problem too. Better quality racks (including
the Topeak Tourist) have adjustment for tilt on the top mounts that enables
you to position the rack a bit further rearwards. My Tubus Cargo rear rack
has a very easily adjustable top mount, but still the difficulty is moving
the bottom mount further to the rear. The ultimate anwer may be to get a
better touring frame like the Surly Long Haul Trucker, which has all
braze-ons for racks and is designed with longer chainstays. A longer rear
end will be better for balance as the load is carried more within the
wheelbase.

As far as the panniers go, my daughter has used those on a 16 day tour of
Tassie's east coast with no problems, but she wasn't carrying too much, and
mostly on good roads. The top clips seem fairly robust, but they do have a
notch in them for the spring, that may be a weak point. Continual
heel-clipping may have stressed the hooks (?). The bottom clip is rather
flimsily mounted. Your best answer here is Ortliebs - they have more robust
hooks. Very cheap to buy them online from British or German online stores.
Hopefully you get your money back, Ivanhoe Cycles have a good reputation
generally.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)


"just us" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well my husband just went bush with his brand new bags
> http://www.ivanhoecycles.com.au/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=5 which
> are the same as those shown in the pic. The bags were great for me when I
> did a 1700kms ride last year so we invested in another set. The next
> problem was that he just couldnt find a rack to suit - he had heel clip no
> matter which ones he tried. In the end he STOLE the rack of my 700 for the
> trip and they seemed to sit on them nicely without heel clipping. On the
> first day of a remote 12 day trip the rack broke, luckily he had trusty
> cable ties with him and then one by one all the clips on the bags broke!
> At that point out came the fencing wire and the bags were tied to the rack
> for the remainder of the trip. In the lead up to this ride he tried
> several different racks but all seemed to do the same thing - he had heel
> clip.He tried other ppls bags and got heel clip also so it isnt just the
> bags.
> He rides a MTB. I rekon his bike frame just doesnt want to comply - the
> bike is a Mongoose Pro Rockadile.
> Can anyone suggest a good bike rack for a MTB that doesnt have that
> problem and is also very tough? The other guy on the trip has a topeak
> tourist and now i have a new one of those also but they were no good on
> his bike either.
> I will be sending the bags back as I think that all 4 clips to break just
> isnt good and it should be exchanged under warrenty.
>
> Thanks
> Kathy
>
>

 

[Zebee Johnstone]

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 1 Jun 2008 13:55:34 +1000
just us <[email protected]> wrote:
> Can anyone suggest a good bike rack for a MTB that doesnt have that problem
> and is also very tough? The other guy on the trip has a topeak tourist and
> now i have a new one of those also but they were no good on his bike either.
> I will be sending the bags back as I think that all 4 clips to break just
> isnt good and it should be exchanged under warrenty.
>

Arkel panniers have a lifetime warranty, if the fastening breaks they
send you a whole new fastening set without blinking. Did that for me
and my year old commuter pannier.

The new fastening system (which I got) is less hard on racks than the
old, and is a different design to what failed on mine.

Try www.arkel-od.com they give full dimensions on their panniers so
you can draw the shape in cardboard and offer it up to the bike to
see if there's heelstrike. Their site's help files imply that a big
footed bloke on a mountain bike is going to have problems.

Zebee

 

[terryc]

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:55:34 +1000, just us wrote:

> Can anyone suggest a good bike rack for a MTB that doesnt have that problem
> and is also very tough?
First problem is that I can not find an image that shows the
mounting system on these panniers clearly. so,all I can suggest
is looking at UTE hooks to rivet onto the bag to replace the
broken clips, if they are not a replaceable part from Tioga.

As to the rack, either
a) you/he needs a rack that is longer in the
tray so you can move the bags further to the rear. Caveat, this may
tend to lift the nose/front wheel more as more weight shifts
behind the rear axle, ior

b) Mount the rack further back by using some extension spacers,
aka 1" of plate strip. Caveat, better to double mount, aka two
spacers to create a adjusted mount spot on a triangle.

<Sorry, if this is unclear;. cold weather on aching fingers screws my
brain wawes>

> I will be sending the bags back as I think that all 4 clips to
> break just isnt good and it should be exchanged under warrenty.

In my experience, about half of bicycle racks are no good for serious
self contained touring.

 

[PeteSig]

"terryc" wrote:

> First problem is that I can not find an image that shows the
> mounting system on these panniers clearly. so,all I can suggest
> is looking at UTE hooks to rivet onto the bag to replace the
> broken clips, if they are not a replaceable part from Tioga.

Using the old ute cover hooks would be a major downgrading of the bags. It'd
work, as long as you have some form of tension strap as well. These Tioga
panniers use a mounting method similar to Ortliebs. Hooks on a top plastic
bar, that have clips to prevent them coming off, with a lower mount that
holds them against the rack support stay.

Incidentally, both Ortlieb and Tioga are adjustable in their fore and aft
position, by sliding the hooks along the top bar. Did you play about with
this? I had to position my Ortliebs using the sliding hooks so that they
were away from my heels, and I have been able to do this successfully.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[Tomasso]

"terryc" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...
>
> In my experience, about half of bicycle racks are no good for serious
> self contained touring.

True, but my old Karrimor rack and bags are still fine. Must be 30 years now...

The handlebar bad thing isn't compatible with new shifters (like STI).

T.

 

[BtC]

My Tubus Cargo rack arrived last week and I can safely now say that they are
brilliant - so easy to fit. My frame does not have the eyelets so I needed
the adapter kit and it works a charm - the frame is perfectly rigid on the
bike.

I don't know about its strength as I have not field tested it yet, but given
that they offered a 2 year send anywhere guarantee and a replacement
guarantee for a further 8 years after that, I have a great degree of
confidence in them.

Given the US$ is very weak, now is a good time to buy them

My Ortliebs are on the way and I can't wait to test 'em ).

Given that you do a lot of touring you should at least look into them.

BtC

 

[G-S]

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Their site's help files imply that a big
> footed bloke on a mountain bike is going to have problems.

I had this problem with the Giant Cypress city and the panniers. Hybrid
geometry isn't very different to MTB geometry.

Even with the Fuji I have to clip the panniers onto the rack as far back
as they will go and I only just get clearence.

That's the downside of being shortish with a larger shoe size I suppose.

Tall people with similar sized shoe sizes can probably find a larger
frame size...


G-S

 

[ray]

PeteSig wrote:
> "terryc" wrote:
>
>> First problem is that I can not find an image that shows the
>> mounting system on these panniers clearly. so,all I can suggest
>> is looking at UTE hooks to rivet onto the bag to replace the
>> broken clips, if they are not a replaceable part from Tioga.
>
> Using the old ute cover hooks would be a major downgrading of the bags. It'd
> work, as long as you have some form of tension strap as well. These Tioga
> panniers use a mounting method similar to Ortliebs. Hooks on a top plastic
> bar, that have clips to prevent them coming off, with a lower mount that
> holds them against the rack support stay.
>
> Incidentally, both Ortlieb and Tioga are adjustable in their fore and aft
> position, by sliding the hooks along the top bar. Did you play about with
> this? I had to position my Ortliebs using the sliding hooks so that they
> were away from my heels, and I have been able to do this successfully.
>
Evening Mr Sig,
My ancient (must be 25+ years now) Jim Blackburn rear rack soldiers
on, though the Japanese front one cracked up about ten years ago, simple
weld failure.
The cast trailer hooks tend to be a bit too brittle (I had several snap
in the late 90s)and also need filing out a bit to fit the racks anyway.
I bought a set of four duralumin hooks from Christie Cycles c. 1999, and
these have carried every load in creation of any type of road you care
to name ever since without mishap.
Cheers,
Ray

 

[PeteSig]

"BtC" <[email protected]> wrote:

> My Tubus Cargo rack arrived last week and I can safely now say that they
> are brilliant - so easy to fit. My frame does not have the eyelets so I
> needed the adapter kit and it works a charm - the frame is perfectly rigid
> on the bike.
> I don't know about its strength as I have not field tested it yet, but
> given that they offered a 2 year send anywhere guarantee and a replacement
> guarantee for a further 8 years after that, I have a great degree of
> confidence in them.
>
> Given the US$ is very weak, now is a good time to buy them
>
> My Ortliebs are on the way and I can't wait to test 'em ).
>
> Given that you do a lot of touring you should at least look into them.

The Tubus Cargo is exceptionally rigid and very strong. Rated load limit of
40kg. Note though - they advise against fitting kiddie-seats to them. The
Topeak racks and other alloy Blackburn copies do not compare - 7mm solid
aluminium doesn't have the strength of 10mm CroMo steel tube, and the Cargo
is lighter than a Blackburn alloy rack.

Yes, it should be a good time to buy from the US, until the US shops have to
factor in the higher cost of buying from Germany. So get in quick! For the
sort of remote area touring you do in FNQ. I would think a rack of this
nature was more than justified. I have Tubus on three of my bikes now, and
have no regrets. Just brilliant for fit and load carrying.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[terryc]

On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:31:15 +1000, Tomasso wrote:


> True, but my old Karrimor rack and bags are still fine. Must be 30 years now...

Weird, both my genuine and yumcha version were squashed very fast. There
was a design problem that meant they had all curved stays that eventually
sank under load. My bags are still around, but mainly as i used them as a
pattern to make my own panniers.

 

[PeteSig]

"terryc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:31:15 +1000, Tomasso wrote:
>
>
>> True, but my old Karrimor rack and bags are still fine. Must be 30 years
>> now...
>
> Weird, both my genuine and yumcha version were squashed very fast. There
> was a design problem that meant they had all curved stays that eventually
> sank under load.

The old Karrimor rack that I began my touring with was a sapling in the
breeze compared to the solidity of the Tubus. Spindly (~5mm) steel rod and
no lateral triangulation made for a very flexy ride with any heavy load.
They were good at the time in the mid 70s, when there was virtually nothing
else to choose from. Today Tubus is the new Karrimor.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[BT Humble]

just us wrote:
> Can anyone suggest a good bike rack for a MTB that doesnt have that problem
> and is also very tough? The other guy on the trip has a topeak tourist and
> now i have a new one of those also but they were no good on his bike either.
> I will be sending the bags back as I think that all 4 clips to break just
> isnt good and it should be exchanged under warrenty.

I think that the possible solutions will basically fall into these 4
categories:

1. Tell him to ride with his instep on the pedal ;-)
2. Use different bags
3. Use a different rack
4. Use a different bike.

I think that the problem is most likely mainly caused by his use of a
(relatively) short-wheelbase bike for touring. I'd suggest using one
of your existing racks as a starting point, then making (or getting
made) a rack to suit the bike that will work for him & your bags.
Pretty much any welding shop would be able to weld something together
for you out of mild steel (and from the sounds of things, he'd prefer
durability over the minor difference in weight).

But then again, I ride a BigW bike.


BTH

 

[G-S]

BT Humble wrote:
>
> I think that the problem is most likely mainly caused by his use of a
> (relatively) short-wheelbase bike for touring.
>

That would explain why I have the problem with the cypress city yes...

care to have a go at explaining why I have the problem with the long
wheelbase Fuji Touring BT?


G-S

 

[BT Humble]

G-S wrote:
> BT Humble wrote:
>
> > I think that the problem is most likely mainly caused by his use of a
> > (relatively) short-wheelbase bike for touring.
>
> That would explain why I have the problem with the cypress city yes...
>
> care to have a go at explaining why I have the problem with the long
> wheelbase Fuji Touring BT?

Because you've got a body like a bloody garden gnome, you big-footed
bluebottle! ;-)

(Hey, give it to me if you don't like it...)

BTH

 

[G-S]

BT Humble wrote:
> G-S wrote:
>> BT Humble wrote:
>>
>>> I think that the problem is most likely mainly caused by his use of a
>>> (relatively) short-wheelbase bike for touring.
>> That would explain why I have the problem with the cypress city yes...
>>
>> care to have a go at explaining why I have the problem with the long
>> wheelbase Fuji Touring BT?
>
> Because you've got a body like a bloody garden gnome, you big-footed
> bluebottle! ;-)
>
> (Hey, give it to me if you don't like it...)
>

*Does an impression of a garden gnome and pisses in the wind* [1]



G-S


[1] Upwind of BT's K-Mart bike of course ;-)

 

[Tomasso]

"terryc" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:31:15 +1000, Tomasso wrote:
>
>
>> True, but my old Karrimor rack and bags are still fine. Must be 30 years now...
>
> Weird, both my genuine and yumcha version were squashed very fast. There
> was a design problem that meant they had all curved stays that eventually
> sank under load. My bags are still around, but mainly as i used them as a
> pattern to make my own panniers.

I guess it's a question of load. I'm sure Terry carried much more than me,
including an anvil and hammers. Normally I wouldn't put more than a tent
and a sleeping bag on top of the rack, and leave most of the stuff for the
bags.

T.

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 08:30:35 +1000, Tomasso wrote:

> I guess it's a question of load. I'm sure Terry carried much more than me,
> including an anvil and hammers. Normally I wouldn't put more than a tent
> and a sleeping bag on top of the rack, and leave most of the stuff for the
> bags.

Hey, there is nothing wrong with a 15" shifter, 15
' fencing pliers and two kilos of tools and spares[*]. My sleeping bag
and clothing always went in the right rear, with the tent, food and
cooking gear in the left rear. Lunch, spouts and water went into the front
pair and camera, maops in the handlebar bar (not to self to get Aintog and
repair that bag).

Personally, I think it was the watermelons {.


[*] Cootmaundra, Tumut, Canberra trip right at the time that Sedi brought
out those chains that completely disintergrated. I was also carrying 5
spare chains and a spare rear cluster. Lol, the biggest problem turned out
to the claggy mud on the forest trails. Nicknamed the "worshippers of the
crescent moon" trip as everyone removed their mud guards and had them
slung over their rear rack.


> T.

 

[PeteSig]

"terryc" wrote:

> [*] Cootmaundra, Tumut, Canberra trip right at the time that Sedi brought
> out those chains that completely disintergrated. I was also carrying 5
> spare chains and a spare rear cluster.

For godsake, WHY??

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

 

[terryc]

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:09:05 +0000, PeteSig wrote:

>
> "terryc" wrote:
>
>> [*] Cootmaundra, Tumut, Canberra trip right at the time that Sedi brought
>> out those chains that completely disintergrated. I was also carrying 5
>> spare chains and a spare rear cluster.
>
> For godsake, WHY??

Well, I had just purchased a new rear cluster and three chains to go with
it and arrived in Wagga Wagga (not coota) with the realisation that all
three chains were cactus. Actually, I was about 20kms out of town when it
became clear and it was a bolt back to town before midday closing for
three new chains and "oh-bugger, none were thin enough to fit the new
cluster", and so a new rear cluster (alas only 5 speed).

The 15" fencing pliers were actually to reconstruct the crumbing chain
links.

The 15" shifter was to remove rear clusters and considered as share
weight[*]. It was all part of NCM tours and most were relatively new to
touring. So we got them to bring 5 spare spokes of each required length
and I supplied the shifter and various removers if we needed to deal with
broken rear spokes. At that stage, I was the only one with the cluster
remover braised onto my frame. Well before all these fancy tools were
around.

[*] Actually, it was the first trip where the tool kit was weighed in as
group weight and counted as my share. Good in one sense as I wasn't now
carrying a double share, but bad as my share didn't get lighter as the
trip went on.