Project Creatine

[2LAP]

Originally posted by visual_infinity
Well, I go for longer distance cycling (well by my stadards, I do 20-30 miles on long rides. This kind of sustained excercise on my legs is the kind of sustained exercise a body builder would be doing, exxcept with heaver stresses, so surely it must be coming in useful. What makes you think it would not? Why do you think it might make me slower?

Jonathan

As Ric, suggests creatine may make you slower due to increases in body weight due to water retention. It will also make your wallet empty which might offset the increased bod weight.

Body building and cycling are very different. During endurance cycling the intensity is 'reletivly' low and effort sustained; during body building the intensity is often 'maximal' and for a limited time. Because of these differences endurance cycing uses mainly the aerobic energy system while body building type activities use anaerobic energy system (primeraly the 'ATP-PC' or 'alactic' sytem). As creatine 'helps' the ATP-PC system it may help body building but is very very unlikely to help endurance cycling. In fact the only type of cycling that it is likely to help are events where there are repeated short maximal sprints with some limited time for recovery.

The forces involved in cycling are very small when compared to strength training, in fact endurance cyclists don't need to be very strong at all.

 

[Lab_Rat]

Hi there everyone,

Yes the Lab Rat is still alive.

As an endurance athlete, I am sceptical that Creatine will give you a useful benefit. The weight-gain is certainly not ideal for a cyclist, although if you're really skinny and could do with some extra muscle mass, then go for it.

I have since been sponsored by a Nutritional Co, and your diet is certainly more important than the supplementation. MAke sure you're eating 3 full meals a day (breakfast, lunch and supper),
supplement that with three snacks in between (e.g. fruit, meal replacement shakes etc) and only then consider the supplementation. Use a good multivitamin to combat free radicals and perhaps magnesium & potasium if required for cramping etc.
I don't really see the need for creatine as a cyclist, but if you're doing intense 100m rides, then perhaps.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[visual_infinity]

Well I could do with the extra strength to make me go faster, I need more strength to ride in the higher gears for longer, all the pros have much larger leg muscles than I do. Its not particularly expensive if you buy from www.zipvit.co.uk

Jonathan

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Originally posted by visual_infinity
Well I could do with the extra strength to make me go faster, I need more strength to ride in the higher gears for longer, all the pros have much larger leg muscles than I do. Its not particularly expensive if you buy from www.zipvit.co.uk

Jonathan

Jonathan,

you don't need more strength to go faster. You need a bigger aerobic capacity (i.e., VO2 max and LT). These are not improved by strength (unless you have a functional disability). The size of pro's legs is related to type i fibres, which are trained aerobically.

Ric

 

[visual_infinity]

I have spoken to a guy today who is a body builder who reckons that the idea that creatine only hlps for anerobic excercise is a complete nonsense, do any of you know of any websites from respectable organisations to confirm or deny its effective use for a cyclist?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Originally posted by visual_infinity
I have spoken to a guy today who is a body builder who reckons that the idea that creatine only hlps for anerobic excercise is a complete nonsense, do any of you know of any websites from respectable organisations to confirm or deny its effective use for a cyclist?

If you do a search on Pub-Med, the national library of medicine, you can see all the abstracts to all the research. there's literally hundreds of them for creatine. If you review them, you'll see that creatine has no benefit for endurance cycling.

Ric

 

[visual_infinity]

Thanks Ric

 

[2LAP]

Originally posted by visual_infinity
I have spoken to a guy today who is a body builder who reckons that the idea that creatine only hlps for anerobic excercise is a complete nonsense, do any of you know of any websites from respectable organisations to confirm or deny its effective use for a cyclist?

Thats interesting, as body building activities are mainly anaerobic and with the aerobic energy system only being used significantly during recovery. I would be interested in knowing why he thinks this is the case.

 

[tomdavis80]

Can the Lab Rate report on his overall opinion of Creatine?
When and how much was the best to use?

I took some before track training last week, and wasn't impresed.

Brian

Several problems with your study and with his study. The first is that there needs to be more control in the studies. Secondly, if you did it for only one week, that may not be enough time to get the effect, you have to sustain it.

One problem I saw with his study is that I would have preferred to see this study done in this way, for 30 days with no prior serious training for two months before, train normally with no creatine. Then take two months off and then try it with creatine and then measure the results against each other. I'd also strongly advise having IDENTICAL training plans and IDENTICAL routes for each day and have a power meter for both of those months. Then perhaps, one might get a decent and comparable measure of the improvements over the 30 days. Again, consistency is the key here. And I'd prefer to do it with someone who already has at least a few years in his legs so that the improvements in each phase won't be insanely fast unlike what you WILL get from a beginner and the beginner's first month will skew the second month with creatine.

 

[Billsworld]

assuming that you don't compete in track sprint or similar races, i.e., you compete in RR, TT, MTB, etc. then creatine won't do anything for your performance except possibly make you slower.

Ric

Amen, It could be for aiding sprint performance and or hypertrophy in an off season cycle. Wont do much for endurance cycling other than complicate hydration............I have used it for years for lifting and it helps strength for one reason or another

 

[azdroptop]

Are we supposed to have 5 grams of creatine? I bought a 500g btch of creatine from www.zipvit.co.uk - the cheapest in vitamins and suplements, and it says in the first five days of use you take so many heaped spoonfuls per day,then after that one per day before training, but when i weigh a heaped spoonful, it is only about 2g, so what is the correct dose?? I did read tht the dosage of creatine from another firm was 5g per day, which is the most accurate???

Jonathan

Research has disproved the notion that a person needs to 'load' creatine. The same results were seen when 5g were taken a day through out vs. taking more than 5g a day. As a former bodybuilder turned cyclist I honestly can not see in any way shape or form how creatine would be beneficial. It puts on way too much weight.

 

[jamesstout]

It puts on way too much weight.

im a climber an dif ound it helps i was at 64 kilos and 190cm tall so i needed extra mass also my bf was too low it helpsed me on power climbs and allows me to spin better it also seems to help with recovery.

what do you guys reccomend for recovery curenlty i do whey protein +bannana and cereal and dry fruit.

 

[Billsworld]

im a climber an dif ound it helps i was at 64 kilos and 190cm tall so i needed extra mass also my bf was too low it helpsed me on power climbs and allows me to spin better it also seems to help with recovery.

what do you guys reccomend for recovery curenlty i do whey protein +bannana and cereal and dry fruit.

I doubt creatine did any of that, unless the climbs were hill sprints with complete recovery. Your recovery methods look sound

 

[spinner32]

I agree with the notion that creatine will do little to nothing for your cycling ability. I have been considering training with creatine (ethyl ester, not monohydrate) in the off season to improve workout performance during the strength phases of my training. After some fairly substantial research, however, I've found that it will likely do nothing but put a hole in your wallet.

Obviously over long hauls and steady ascents, creatine won't help at all. The debate has been largely over its use as a supplement for sprints and track races.

Here is a link to one of many studies that have put the "creatine for sprinting" myth to bed:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3483434

I have a feeling good ol' proper nutrition will probably do more for you than loading with creatine.

 

[Billsworld]

I agree with the notion that creatine will do little to nothing for your cycling ability. I have been considering training with creatine (ethyl ester, not monohydrate) in the off season to improve workout performance during the strength phases of my training. After some fairly substantial research, however, I've found that it will likely do nothing but put a hole in your wallet.

Obviously over long hauls and steady ascents, creatine won't help at all. The debate has been largely over its use as a supplement for sprints and track races.

Here is a link to one of many studies that have put the "creatine for sprinting" myth to bed:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3483434

I have a feeling good ol' proper nutrition will probably do more for you than loading with creatine.

I honestly think that creatine helps my gym work. I have benched 360 , Deadlifted 575, and squated 600 at 198 lbs. I dont know if it helps sprinting, but would stay away from it if endurance cycling is your thing. Just my opinion....... If I were to use creatine(and I do for certain periods of time) I would look into "cell tech" It is mixed with maltodextrine and other **** to make it work well. Its also a rip off price wise, but as I said it works well.

 

[spinner32]

No doubt as to creatine's effectiveness in power lifting, as it aids in the synthesis of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) for use in cellular work. I've seen some pretty amazing

results from creatine supplementation in bodybuilders. As you said though, endurance cyclists just don't stand to gain much from it - even over short, high-intensity exertions - and there are studies out there that prove it.