Proper Swimming Atire



On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:43:43 -0500, "Micheal Artindale"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"m. w. smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:16:11 -0500, Micheal Artindale <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Normaly when i swim, i wear brief style swimwear. I rarely swim with shorts on.
>> >
>> > I am a adult helper with a yotuh organizeation. We will be going swiming as an outing. The
>> > youth are younger boys. I am not gay, or a pedofile. I also dont wanna be viewed as one either.
>> >
>> > I live in Canada.
>> >
>> > My question is, should i wear what everyone does, or not.
>> >
>> > I wear what i wear out of comfort. It alows me to concentrate on my strokes, and not on trying
>> > to move. I find shorts very restrictive.
>> >
>> > when we go, we will be doing stroke improvements with the youth.
>> >
>> > What should i do?
>>
>> You know what you should do, but I'll tell you anyway. Buy a pair of nylon gym shorts. Wear your
>> speedo while swimming. When you get out of the pool to instruct the kids, grab your nylon gym
>> shorts and pull them on over your speedo. Take them off again when you get back in the water.
>>
>> Since even an idiot can figure this out on his own, you probably *are* a pedophile. If you are, I
>> hope you get caught soon. If you aren't just ignore me, except for the part about the gym shorts.
>>
>> martin
>>
>> --
>> If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a
>> new president.
>
>First of all, dont acuse me of doing or being something i'm not. your american, and i dont say you
>are an idiot.

Please excuse Martin He's not been getting enough carbs lately and he's cranky. Besides He's
an American that live outside the country isn't he? That doen't count.

~Matt

>
>second, i was planing on shorts, but i wanted to see what the opinion of other people was.
>
>I ll list yours as typical western society.
 
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:02:40 +0100, "m. w. smith"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 18:16:11 -0500, Micheal Artindale <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Normaly when i swim, i wear brief style swimwear. I rarely swim with shorts on.
>>
>> I am a adult helper with a yotuh organizeation. We will be going swiming as an outing. The youth
>> are younger boys. I am not gay, or a pedofile. I also dont wanna be viewed as one either.
>>
>> I live in Canada.
>>
>> My question is, should i wear what everyone does, or not.
>>
>> I wear what i wear out of comfort. It alows me to concentrate on my strokes, and not on trying to
>> move. I find shorts very restrictive.
>>
>> when we go, we will be doing stroke improvements with the youth.
>>
>> What should i do?
>
>You know what you should do, but I'll tell you anyway. Buy a pair of nylon gym shorts. Wear your
>speedo while swimming. When you get out of the pool to instruct the kids, grab your nylon gym
>shorts and pull them on over your speedo. Take them off again when you get back in the water.

Holy ****! I agree I really agree..........................

~Matt
 
"Robert W. McAdams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Normaly when i swim, i wear brief style swimwear. I rarely swim with
shorts
> > on.
> >
> > I am a adult helper with a yotuh organizeation. We will be going swiming
as
> > an outing. The youth are younger boys. I am not gay, or a pedofile. I
also
> > dont wanna be viewed as one either.
> >
> > I live in Canada.
> >
> > My question is, should i wear what everyone does, or not.
> >
> > I wear what i wear out of comfort. It alows me to concentrate on my
strokes,
> > and not on trying to move. I find shorts very restrictive.
> >
> > when we go, we will be doing stroke improvements with the youth.
> >
> > What should i do?
> >
> > Micheal
>
> I'd suggest that you play it by ear. Have shorts available, and have your briefs available, too.
>
> The first thing you should do is observe what the boys are wearing. The last time I was in Canada,
> it was fairly common for boys to wear swim briefs (in fact, I remember a boy in a hotel getting on
> the elevator to ride down to the hotel pool wearing nothing but his swim briefs, which I've never
> seen happen in the U.S.). But perhaps that's changed, or perhaps it depends on where in Canada you
> are. If at least some of the boys are wearing briefs, it probably won't create a sensation if you
> wear them, too.
>
> Another issue is whether you should only wear your briefs when you are in the water, and put on
> shorts whenever you are out of the water
> (e.g., giving swim instruction from the side of the pool). Again, I'd suggest observing what the
> boys do.
>
> There may also be an argument for wearing your briefs when you are in the water, even if none of
> the boys are doing this, IF the youth organization you are working with doesn't object. One of the
> things boys should learn when they're getting stroke training, IMO, is that serious swimmers wear
> competitive swimwear. If a boy notices that the adult leaders who are really into swimming wear
> competitive swimwear, he's likely to associate competitive swimwear with serious swimming and feel
> a lot more comfortable wearing it when/if he gets serious about swimming.
>
>
> Bob

Your answer is by far the best I have heard. What I will probably do is, wear my speedo under my
trunks, and if a youth wears one, i would too. (BTW i have seen a 55 yr old in the same oranization
in an older style one -- i tink it was about a 8 inch side, but was about size 40, and none of the
youth said anything, and he wasnt in shape).

Micheal
 
"m. w. smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:43:43 -0500, Micheal Artindale <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > First of all, dont acuse me of doing or being something i'm not. your american, and i dont say
> > you are an idiot.
>
> You're an adult helper with a youth organization, and you are confused about what clothes to wear
> around "younger boys." It is important to you to emphasize that you are "not gay, or a pedophile,"
> and you "dont wanna be viewed as one." And you felt compelled to make clear to a group of
> swimmers, most of whom have worn speedo suits for decades, that *you* wear them for *comfort* and
> comfort allows you "to concentrate on my strokes, and not on trying to move." Astonishingly, you
> "find shorts very restrictive."
>
> Normal people don't have these problems.
>
> The only things shorts restrict are your balls. They are supposed to do that; briefs restrict them
> too. Nowadays, world class swimmers wear suits that cover their entire bodies. If they were
> restrictive, swimmers wouldn't wear them. Swimmers in triathlons even wear wetsuits.

Thats not the kind of restriction that I mean. I have never found a pair of shorts that are designed
not to feel like they will rip if you do the proper leg movement of the breast stroke. I think I
would be more embarassed if i ripped my shorts showing the youth how to do the breast stroke leg
movement than swimming in a pair of speedos. those full body suits and wetsuits cant hide things
anymore or less than a speedo. They just cover more.

And another thing --- why are women allowed to wear the swimwear that they do, and no one has them
wear baggy stuff, even the, uhm, ... large ones? In Canada there is even a law that permits women to
bear their chests,

18, can remember.

and they say they are oppresed

Micheal
 
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:11:44 GMT, curt <[email protected]> wrote:

>> One of the things boys should learn when they're getting stroke training, IMO, is that serious
>> swimmers wear competitive swimwear. If a boy notices that the adult leaders who are really into
>> swimming wear competitive swimwear, he's likely to associate competitive swimwear with serious
>> swimming and feel a lot more comfortable wearing it when/if he gets serious about swimming.
>>
>>
>> Bob
>
> Now that is a good answer.

Is this really a serious issue where you are? Where are you? I have been around swim clubs and
swimming lessons in three countries, Norway, Australia, and three states in the western US. Except
for the occassional shy (usually fat) kid, I have never seen kids confused about what kind of suit
to wear. Children are not stupid. They don't need their middle-aged, overweight coach to be a role
model for what kind of tackle to wear. Nor is it even necessary for small kids to wear any
particular kind of suit. They don't go fast enough for the suit to make a difference.

The original poster is uncomfortable around children, or "youth" as he calls them. He carefully
refers to them as youth. Not kids, not dudes, not guys, but youth. And he is concerned that these
youth might think him gay,

front of them.

It doesn't matter what the coach wears except that the coach should command authority and respect.
Sometimes a coach has to lower the boom on a few kids. Sometimes he has to inspire them. Sometimes
he has to be a parent, a mentor, a teacher. If he looks silly wearing a speedo on the deck, then he
should pull on a pair of gym shorts and a t-shirt when he heaves his great bulk out of the water. If
he is a shivering anorexic Mr Burns, they don't make speedos to fit guys like that.

It isn't a moral issue. It is a uniform issue. When a coach is coaching, he should wear a coach's
uniform. You don't have to teach kids to wear speedos.

martin

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.
 
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:08:21 -0500, Micheal Artindale
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Thats not the kind of restriction that I mean. I have never found a pair of shorts that are
> designed not to feel like they will rip if you do the proper leg movement of the breast stroke. I
> think I would be more embarassed if i ripped my shorts showing the youth how to do the breast
> stroke leg movement than swimming in a pair of speedos. those full body suits and wetsuits cant
> hide things anymore or less than a speedo. They just cover more.

Do you know what gym shorts are? You buy a pair of gym shorts. They are usually nylon and they are
loose-fitting. You wear the speedo under the shorts. If you want to buy a non-speedo swim suit, you
buy one that fits properly. Rest assured that swim suit manufacturors do not design their swim suits
to tear when used. Speedos are far more likely to tear as they get old, due to repeated exposure to
sun and pool chemicals. Also, horror of horrors, they fade, exposing your naughty bits to all God's
creatures. So you need to wear two speedos, or people will think you are a pedophile.

> And another thing --- why are women allowed to wear the swimwear that they do, and no one has them
> wear baggy stuff, even the, uhm, ... large ones?

For the same reason that men are allowed to wear the swimwear that *they* do, and no one has *them*
wear baggy stuff, even the large ones.

> In Canada there is even a law that permits women to bear their chests,

> or 18, can remember.
>
> and they say they are oppresed

You really are a troll, I suppose. You should not be working with children in any case.

martin

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.
 
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:55:34 -0500, Micheal Artindale
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Your answer is by far the best I have heard. What I will probably do is, wear my speedo under my
> trunks, and if a youth wears one, i would too. (BTW i have seen a 55 yr old in the same
> oranization in an older style one -- i tink it was about a 8 inch side, but was about size 40, and
> none of the youth said anything, and he wasnt in shape).

What were you expecting the youth to say? Why are you surprised that youth don't give a **** what
geezer wears in the pool?

I hope this whole thing works out for you.

Have you given any thought yet to what you will wear in the shower?

martin

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.
 
> You really are a troll, I suppose. You should not be working with children in any case.
>
> martin

<bingo> that was a troll who just wanted to talk about underwear.

Pat in TX
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:11:44 GMT, curt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> One of the things boys should learn when they're getting stroke training, IMO, is that serious
> >> swimmers wear competitive swimwear. If a boy notices that the adult leaders who are really into
> >> swimming wear competitive swimwear, he's likely to associate competitive swimwear with serious
> >> swimming and feel a lot more comfortable wearing it when/if he gets serious about swimming.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > Now that is a good answer.
>
> Is this really a serious issue where you are? Where are you? I have been around swim clubs and
> swimming lessons in three countries, Norway, Australia, and three states in the western US. Except
> for the occassional shy (usually fat) kid, I have never seen kids confused about what kind of suit
> to wear. Children are not stupid. They don't need their middle-aged, overweight coach to be a role
> model for what kind of tackle to wear. Nor is it even necessary for small kids to wear any
> particular kind of suit. They don't go fast enough for the suit to make a difference.

I've never seen this as an issue either - my swimming background includes Wyoming, Florida,
Connecticut and Guam.

> The original poster is uncomfortable around children, or "youth" as he calls them. He carefully
> refers to them as youth. Not kids, not dudes, not guys, but youth. And he is concerned that these
> youth might think him gay,

> front of them.

I'm not sure that his referring to children as "youth" is significant - for me that's just another
word for teenagers.

> It doesn't matter what the coach wears except that the coach should command authority and respect.
> Sometimes a coach has to lower the boom on a few kids. Sometimes he has to inspire them. Sometimes
> he has to be a parent, a mentor, a teacher. If he looks silly wearing a speedo on the deck, then
> he should pull on a pair of gym shorts and a t-shirt when he heaves his great bulk out of the
> water. If he is a shivering anorexic Mr Burns, they don't make speedos to fit guys like that.
>
> It isn't a moral issue. It is a uniform issue. When a coach is coaching, he should wear a coach's
> uniform. You don't have to teach kids to wear speedos.

I agree that this whole deal is making a mountain out of a molehill, but one thing you might be
underestimating is the prevailing North American

As an example, just the other day a friend of mine asked me to come watch his 6 year old daughter
swim in her first meet. The entrance to the pool happened to be immediately adjacent to where the
kids were being organized in their heats. I didn't know where this girl's parents were, so I was
trying to get her attention above the din to ask her where they were sitting. Almost immediately I
was confronted by a guy who looked at me as if I were standing there naked with an erection and
black socks, rather than in the business suit that I was wearing (having just come from work.) I
explained to him what I was doing there, and despite the fact that he knew my friend and his family,
he only grudgingly let me proceed with talking to my friend's daughter.

Additionally, as a prosecutor my brother runs across all kinds of

character of the targeted adult (along with, tragically, the occassional case with merit.)

The moral of the story, for me, is that if you are an adult and find yourself in the midst of
children, be prepared in advance to justify that happenstance in the face of fanatical scrutiny.

Yet still, I agree that in this case the poster is probably overly- concerned. But I think the
genesis of that concern is more a function of the prevailing societal paranoia in this area than an
unhealthy preoccupation on his part.

- Al
 
"m. w. smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:55:34 -0500, Micheal Artindale <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Your answer is by far the best I have heard. What I will probably do is, wear my speedo under my
> > trunks, and if a youth wears one, i would too. (BTW i have seen a 55 yr old in the same
> > oranization in an older style one -- i tink it was about a 8 inch side, but was about size 40,
> > and none of the youth said anything, and he wasnt in shape).
>
> What were you expecting the youth to say? Why are you surprised that youth don't give a **** what
> geezer wears in the pool?
>
> I hope this whole thing works out for you.
>
> Have you given any thought yet to what you will wear in the shower?

the pool that we are going to have seperate change rooms and showers, which is a good thing.

> martin
>
> --
> If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
> president.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I hope you can do that all in one nite, like ur northern friends
 
"m. w. smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:11:44 GMT, curt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> There may also be an argument for wearing your briefs when you are in the water, even if none
> >> of the boys are doing this, IF the youth organization you are working with doesn't object. One
> >> of the things boys should learn when they're getting stroke training, IMO, is that serious
> >> swimmers wear competitive swimwear. If a boy notices that the adult leaders who are really into
> >> swimming wear competitive swimwear, he's likely to associate competitive swimwear with serious
> >> swimming and feel a lot more comfortable wearing it when/if he gets serious about swimming.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > Now that is a good answer.
>
> Is this really a serious issue where you are? Where are you? I have been around swim clubs and
> swimming lessons in three countries, Norway, Australia, and three states in the western US. Except
> for the occassional shy (usually fat) kid, I have never seen kids confused about what kind of suit
> to wear. Children are not stupid.

I live in the northeastern part of the US, though I've coached kids from as far away as
Washington state.

First off, a lot of kids on swim teams ARE confused nowadays about what kind of suit they should
wear. Should they wear briefs? Or jammers? Or should they nag their parents to get them a full body
suit? I try to emphasize to them that the gold medalists at the last Olympics wore everything from
full body suits to briefs, indicating that even in a race where hundredths of a second can make the
difference between winning and losing, differences in swimmers outweighed any differences that may
have existed between full body suits and briefs (though the full body suits cost a LOT more). I also
emphasize that all of this is true only for expensive suits, where the briefs cost at least $35. For
cheaper suits, more material costs more AND makes you slower.

But what I really had in mind was not a confusion about what kind of suit they SHOULD wear, but
rather an uncomfortableness about actually wearing it. Many boys feel a bit uncomfortable going out
in public for the first time in a competitive swim suit (I know I did). And the problem can be
compounded if they have friends who aren't swimmers and who make comments about the suits. In my
experience, the boys who have the easiest time of it are those who have role models (e.g., parents -
particularly fathers, older siblings - particularly brothers, coaches - particularly male) who are
serious swimmers and who think wearing competitive swimwear is no big deal.

> They don't need their middle-aged, overweight coach to be a role model for what kind of tackle
> to wear.

If their coach is overweight, he needs to trim down, both for his own health and as an example to
the kids. But, like it or not, if a coach appears uptight about wearing competitive swimwear when
he's in the water, why shouldn't they feel uptight about it, too?

> The original poster is uncomfortable around children, or "youth" as he calls them. He carefully
> refers to them as youth. Not kids, not dudes, not guys, but youth. And he is concerned that these
> youth might think him gay,

> front of them.

What to call kids has always been a problem for the adults who work with them. I can even recall a
school teacher who used to call them "people" because he was afraid that calling them anything else
might offend some of them.

I don't see any evidence that he is, in general, uncomfortable around kids. But he is apparently
going to be facing them in a different setting than he has before and that has created some concerns
in his mind. Should he just wear his swim briefs, as he ordinarily would, or is that going to cause
some kind of problem?

> If he looks silly wearing a speedo on the deck, then he should pull on a pair of gym shorts and a
> t-shirt when he heaves his great bulk out of the water.

Actually, my original comment was specifically about what he should wear when he is in the water,
not what he should wear if he is coaching from the pool deck. When I've coached younger kids (aged
9-11), I was in the water most of the time.

Bob
 
>It doesn't matter what the coach wears except that the coach should command authority and respect.
>Sometimes a coach has to lower the boom on

>It isn't a moral issue. It is a uniform issue. When a coach is coaching, he should wear a coach's
>uniform. You don't have to teach kids to wear speedos.

Hey, in my high school days, we had a fat overweight coach who wore "speedos" on the deck. He looked
silly, but then he commanded respect more with his manner and the way he carried himself rather than
what he wore. Only the bold and foolish dared to cross him!
 
>I agree that this whole deal is making a mountain out of a molehill, but one thing you might be
>underestimating is the prevailing North American

>Yet still, I agree that in this case the poster is probably overly- concerned. But I think the
>genesis of that concern is more a function of the prevailing societal paranoia in this area than an
>unhealthy preoccupation on his part.

This "prevailing North American attitude" seems to have spread its influence far and wide. I live in
Asia, and the other day I was at my usual pool changing into my swimwear when I overheard this 3 or
4 year old boy telling his dad that he didn't dare to change in the men's changing room because
there were "other people (I suppose that meant me-I was the only other person there)" present and
"they might do like Michael Jackson". Here we are, a kid in the gent's changing room together *with
his father* helping him to change in/out of his swimwear and afraid that the first other adult male
present would be a child molester?!

I felt insulted but strangely, also afraid. I quickly finished changing and got out of there before
I could be accused of anything.
 
>Do you know what gym shorts are? You buy a pair of gym shorts. They are usually nylon and they are
>loose-fitting. You wear the speedo under the

On a more practical note, I've noticed that many swimming coaches in my area wear wetsuits for sun
protection nowadays; complete with sunglasses and big floppy hats that they don't mind getting
soaked. Am I missing something here...? Is the ozone layer really that far gone?
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> >I agree that this whole deal is making a mountain out of a molehill, but one thing you might be
> >underestimating is the prevailing North American

>
> >Yet still, I agree that in this case the poster is probably overly- concerned. But I think the
> >genesis of that concern is more a function of the prevailing societal paranoia in this area than
> >an unhealthy preoccupation on his part.
>
> This "prevailing North American attitude" seems to have spread its influence far and wide. I live
> in Asia, and the other day I was at my usual pool changing into my swimwear when I overheard this
> 3 or 4 year old boy telling his dad that he didn't dare to change in the men's changing room
> because there were "other people (I suppose that meant me-I was the only other person there)"
> present and "they might do like Michael Jackson". Here we are, a kid in the gent's changing room
> together *with his father* helping him to change in/out of his swimwear and afraid that the first
> other adult male present would be a child molester?!
>
> I felt insulted but strangely, also afraid. I quickly finished changing and got out of there
> before I could be accused of anything.

Wow, that's pathetic. Yeah, if I were you I would have moon walked right out of there! :)

- Al
 
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