Pros winning on shallow aluminum rims with 36 crossed spokes?

[Ron Ruff]

I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
other pros were doing the same thing:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004

I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
*entire* race... something to think about...

Or maybe they really can "feel" the fraction of a mm of "suspension
travel" these wheels might give?

 

[Lou Holtman]

"Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
> bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
> sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
> sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
> other pros were doing the same thing:
>
>
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>
> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
> want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
> *entire* race... something to think about...
>

95% of the pro riders hate Paris Roubais and would not mind leaving the race
because a wheel broke down. It's there job though.

> Or maybe they really can "feel" the fraction of a mm of "suspension
> travel" these wheels might give?

Have you ever riden over those cobble stones? Then you know that only a FS
mountainbike would be appropriate.

Lou
>

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
> bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
> sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
> sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
> other pros were doing the same thing:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>
> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
> want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
> *entire* race... something to think about...
>
> Or maybe they really can "feel" the fraction of a mm of "suspension
> travel" these wheels might give?

Nope. Bike racers want relaibility above all. Few opt for light, light
wheels if durabuility is suspect. Stopping for a wheel change anywhere,
in any race, slows you down(same for a ride, BTW). Some use whatever
cuz of sponsorship requirements but a 36h, hand made, well built wheel
for the pave' is still the most reliable for P-R. No real climbs, just
long flat and rough. Aero-ness means nada if the thing breaks.

 

[Mark Janeba]

Lou Holtman wrote:
> "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
>>bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
>>sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
>>sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
>>other pros were doing the same thing:
>>
>>
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>
>>I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
>>want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
>>*entire* race... something to think about...
>>
>
>
> 95% of the pro riders hate Paris Roubais and would not mind leaving the race
> because a wheel broke down. It's there job though.

They *would* mind if they were in the lead group with 20k to go! Maybe
they wouldn't mind if they were off the back of the main group with 80k
left.

Mark

 

[[email protected]]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
> bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
> sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
> sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
> other pros were doing the same thing:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>
> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
> want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
> *entire* race... something to think about...
>
> Or maybe they really can "feel" the fraction of a mm of "suspension
> travel" these wheels might give?

But if you look at ads featuring Armstrong winning the Tour you'll see
him using extra deep carbon rim Bontrager wheels with about 16 spokes
or so on each wheel.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/tech/?id=round-up1/cntdf05-bontyaeolus1

And here is Boonen's bike from the 2005 Tour. Looks like deep dish
carbon wheels to me. In fact almost everything on the bike is that
weak, highly unreliable, easy to break, dangerous carbon stuff. Except
the crank. Boonen was leading the green jersey competition so he
wanted reliability in the Tour.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/tech/?id=/tech/2005/features/tour05/sprint-boonen

 

[Lou Holtman]

Mark Janeba wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>> "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
>>> bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
>>> sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
>>> sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
>>> other pros were doing the same thing:
>>>
>>>
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>>
>>
>>> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
>>> want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
>>> *entire* race... something to think about...
>>>
>>
>>
>> 95% of the pro riders hate Paris Roubais and would not mind leaving
>> the race
>> because a wheel broke down. It's there job though.
>
>
> They *would* mind if they were in the lead group with 20k to go! Maybe
> they wouldn't mind if they were off the back of the main group with 80k
> left.
>
> Mark
>


85% of the peleton don't ever get in the lead group with 20 km to go
when the race is hard in Paris Roubaix. The race is always hard in PR.
Sure 32 and 36 spoke wheels are a (very) good choice in PR, but in most
races 20 or 24 spoke wheels are good enough.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

 

[Ron Ruff]

[email protected] wrote:
> And here is Boonen's bike from the 2005 Tour. Looks like deep dish
> carbon wheels to me. In fact almost everything on the bike is that
> weak, highly unreliable, easy to break, dangerous carbon stuff. Except
> the crank. Boonen was leading the green jersey competition so he
> wanted reliability in the Tour.

Of course he did... and in a final sprint "light and aero" is
important. It would also be valuable in PR (especially riding in a
small break or solo at the end of the race). If there were no
significant liabilities to using the fancy wheels, then surely they
would use them. The interesting thing is that he and nearly everyone
else is going completely outside their sponsorship deals at PR... so
they can use boring, old fashioned wheels.

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On 6 Feb 2006 11:53:58 -0800, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>The interesting thing is that he and nearly everyone
>else is going completely outside their sponsorship deals at PR... so
>they can use boring, old fashioned wheels.

As opposed to partially outside their sponsorship....

I'm pretty sure that those wheels are used only a few times a year and
then put away till the next year. Sponsorship may come and go, but
that stuff is (for racing) rather specialized and doesn't just wear
out (might break in the race, but not wear out) -- it's put aside till
next time it's needed.

JT

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[Michael Dart]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Ron Ruff wrote:
>> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris
>> Roubaix bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36
>> rear. He is sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any
>> wheel they sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it
>> looks like most of other pros were doing the same thing:
>>
>>
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>>
>> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so
>> they want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will
>> last the *entire* race... something to think about...
>>
>> Or maybe they really can "feel" the fraction of a mm of "suspension
>> travel" these wheels might give?
>
> Nope. Bike racers want relaibility above all. Few opt for light, light
> wheels if durabuility is suspect. Stopping for a wheel change
> anywhere, in any race, slows you down(same for a ride, BTW). Some
> use whatever cuz of sponsorship requirements but a 36h, hand made,
> well built wheel for the pave' is still the most reliable for P-R. No
> real climbs, just long flat and rough. Aero-ness means nada if the
> thing breaks.

Well said. I'm surprised they don't run downhill MTB wheels for the "P-R".
That race is some of the most brutal cycling on or off road I've ever
witnessed.

Mike

 

[Jay Beattie]

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news[email protected]...
> On 6 Feb 2006 11:53:58 -0800, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> >
> >The interesting thing is that he and nearly everyone
> >else is going completely outside their sponsorship deals at
PR... so
> >they can use boring, old fashioned wheels.
>
> As opposed to partially outside their sponsorship....
>
> I'm pretty sure that those wheels are used only a few times a
year and
> then put away till the next year. Sponsorship may come and go,
but
> that stuff is (for racing) rather specialized and doesn't just
wear
> out (might break in the race, but not wear out) -- it's put
aside till
> next time it's needed.

There are lots of squirrels at PR. You will see these wheels at
any race with lots of squirrels. This person forgot to bring the
right wheels, and look what happened. http://tinyurl.com/b7of2
.. -- Jay Beattie.

 

[Mark Janeba]

Lou Holtman wrote:

> Mark Janeba wrote:
>
>> Lou Holtman wrote:
>>
>>> "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
>>>> bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
>>>> sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
>>>> sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
>>>> other pros were doing the same thing:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
>>>> want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
>>>> *entire* race... something to think about...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 95% of the pro riders hate Paris Roubais and would not mind leaving
>>> the race
>>> because a wheel broke down. It's there job though.
>>
>>
>>
>> They *would* mind if they were in the lead group with 20k to go!
>> Maybe they wouldn't mind if they were off the back of the main group
>> with 80k left.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
>
> 85% of the peleton don't ever get in the lead group with 20 km to go
> when the race is hard in Paris Roubaix. The race is always hard in PR.
> Sure 32 and 36 spoke wheels are a (very) good choice in PR, but in most
> races 20 or 24 spoke wheels are good enough.

Certainly correct. My point is that *no* pro says or seriously thinks
"I'll do P-R with unreliable wheels, because then I would get to quit,
and since I hate P-R, that would be fine with me."

Mark

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

[email protected] wrote:
> Ron Ruff wrote:
> > I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
> > bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
> > sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
> > sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
> > other pros were doing the same thing:
> >
> > http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
> >
> > I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
> > want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
> > *entire* race... something to think about...
> >
> > Or maybe they really can "feel" the fraction of a mm of "suspension
> > travel" these wheels might give?
>
> But if you look at ads featuring Armstrong winning the Tour you'll see
> him using extra deep carbon rim Bontrager wheels with about 16 spokes
> or so on each wheel.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/tech/?id=round-up1/cntdf05-bontyaeolus1

Ya know these things weigh about 1700 grams?
>
> And here is Boonen's bike from the 2005 Tour. Looks like deep dish
> carbon wheels to me. In fact almost everything on the bike is that
> weak, highly unreliable, easy to break, dangerous carbon stuff. Except
> the crank. Boonen was leading the green jersey competition so he
> wanted reliability in the Tour.

We talking the TdF, with a squad of cars and wrenches behind them or
P-R, where even getting a wheel can be tough to impossible. For the
PAVE' or the newly made roads for the TdF?

Plus, notice how many people finishing each stage have mismatched
wheels. Some/most are from punctures no doubt, but some are from
'broken' wheels.
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/tech/?id=/tech/2005/features/tour05/sprint-boonen

 

[Francesco Devittori]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Ron Ruff wrote:
>>> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
>>> bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
>>> sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
>>> sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
>>> other pros were doing the same thing:
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>>>
>>> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
>>> want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
>>> *entire* race... something to think about...
>>>
>>> Or maybe they really can "feel" the fraction of a mm of "suspension
>>> travel" these wheels might give?
>> But if you look at ads featuring Armstrong winning the Tour you'll see
>> him using extra deep carbon rim Bontrager wheels with about 16 spokes
>> or so on each wheel.
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/tech/?id=round-up1/cntdf05-bontyaeolus1
>
> Ya know these things weigh about 1700 grams?
>> And here is Boonen's bike from the 2005 Tour. Looks like deep dish
>> carbon wheels to me. In fact almost everything on the bike is that
>> weak, highly unreliable, easy to break, dangerous carbon stuff. Except
>> the crank. Boonen was leading the green jersey competition so he
>> wanted reliability in the Tour.
>
> We talking the TdF, with a squad of cars and wrenches behind them or
> P-R, where even getting a wheel can be tough to impossible. For the
> PAVE' or the newly made roads for the TdF?
>
> Plus, notice how many people finishing each stage have mismatched
> wheels. Some/most are from punctures no doubt, but some are from
> 'broken' wheels.
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/tour05/tech/?id=/tech/2005/features/tour05/sprint-boonen
>

Freire won the 2004 Milano-San Remo on 32h open pros.
297 km at 44 km/h average speed, Freire won the sprint ahead of Zabel
(Zabel was on deep, aero rims -like many others).
When you're fast you're fast, period.

 

[Ron Ruff]

Francesco Devittori wrote:
> Freire won the 2004 Milano-San Remo on 32h open pros.
> 297 km at 44 km/h average speed, Freire won the sprint ahead of Zabel
> (Zabel was on deep, aero rims -like many others).
> When you're fast you're fast, period.

Maybe the clincher "advantage"... do you have any proof of what wheels
he was using? I can't find any closeups...

 

[Diablo Scott]

Ron Ruff wrote:

> Francesco Devittori wrote:
>
>>Freire won the 2004 Milano-San Remo on 32h open pros.
>>297 km at 44 km/h average speed, Freire won the sprint ahead of Zabel
>>(Zabel was on deep, aero rims -like many others).
>>When you're fast you're fast, period.
>
>
> Maybe the clincher "advantage"... do you have any proof of what wheels
> he was using? I can't find any closeups...
>

The advantage Freire had was that Zabel started his victory salute too
early.

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 19:28:08 +0100, Francesco Devittori
<frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote:


>Freire won the 2004 Milano-San Remo on 32h open pros.
>297 km at 44 km/h average speed, Freire won the sprint ahead of Zabel
>(Zabel was on deep, aero rims -like many others).
>When you're fast you're fast, period.

Where did you get that info? In the photos of the finish from the
front, his rims look quite shallow, but how do you know spoke count,
rim details etc?

JT

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[[email protected]]

the exotic colorado cyclists rims are for usa criteriums on suburban
streets?

 

[RonSonic]

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:44:49 -0800, Mark Janeba
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>> Mark Janeba wrote:
>>
>>> Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> I was just looking at an ad featuring Tom Boonan and his Paris Roubaix
>>>>> bike. Shallow aluminum rims, crossed spokes, 32 front, 36 rear. He is
>>>>> sponsored by Fulcrum, but this does not appear to be any wheel they
>>>>> sell. After looking at the photos at CyclingNews, it looks like most of
>>>>> other pros were doing the same thing:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/roubaix05/index.php?id=raceday/FS004
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'd guess it is difficult to get support cars up to the racers, so they
>>>>> want to do everything they can to ensure that the wheels will last the
>>>>> *entire* race... something to think about...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 95% of the pro riders hate Paris Roubais and would not mind leaving
>>>> the race
>>>> because a wheel broke down. It's there job though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They *would* mind if they were in the lead group with 20k to go!
>>> Maybe they wouldn't mind if they were off the back of the main group
>>> with 80k left.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>
>>
>> 85% of the peleton don't ever get in the lead group with 20 km to go
>> when the race is hard in Paris Roubaix. The race is always hard in PR.
>> Sure 32 and 36 spoke wheels are a (very) good choice in PR, but in most
>> races 20 or 24 spoke wheels are good enough.
>
>Certainly correct. My point is that *no* pro says or seriously thinks
>"I'll do P-R with unreliable wheels, because then I would get to quit,
>and since I hate P-R, that would be fine with me."

No wheel sponsor is going to say "Here, we're pretty sure these things are gonna
break out there, but we want more exposure."

Ron

 

[Francesco Devittori]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 19:28:08 +0100, Francesco Devittori
> <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote:
>
>
>> Freire won the 2004 Milano-San Remo on 32h open pros.
>> 297 km at 44 km/h average speed, Freire won the sprint ahead of Zabel
>> (Zabel was on deep, aero rims -like many others).
>> When you're fast you're fast, period.
>
> Where did you get that info? In the photos of the finish from the
> front, his rims look quite shallow, but how do you know spoke count,
> rim details etc?
>
> JT
>
> ****************************
> Remove "remove" to reply
> Visit http://www.jt10000.com
> ****************************

I have a magazine with detail pics of many bikes in that race. It's an
italian magazine, I don't have it here so I don't recall the name.

Francesco

 

[Francesco Devittori]

Ron Ruff wrote:
> Francesco Devittori wrote:
>> Freire won the 2004 Milano-San Remo on 32h open pros.
>> 297 km at 44 km/h average speed, Freire won the sprint ahead of Zabel
>> (Zabel was on deep, aero rims -like many others).
>> When you're fast you're fast, period.
>
> Maybe the clincher "advantage"... do you have any proof of what wheels
> he was using? I can't find any closeups...
>

Next time I'll get to my parent's home I will take a scan of the
magazine (italian). It's interesting, since it's one of the first
important races of the season there are several riders that are
obviously still trying to get the best position on the new bikes, you
see extremely up (and down-) tilted stems, etc.

I remember perfectly that Freire was on shallow, alluminium,
lots-of-crossed-spokes wheels. I seem to remember that it was a tubular
wheel, but I'm not sure on that one. I have to check.

Most of the other guys where riding Cosmic, a few had shallow carbon
rims (hyperon-like).

Francesco