Protection against dogs



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F

Frank Riley

Guest
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Last year in South East Asia we were sometimes **** scarred, especially in Trat, where quite a few
> dogs charged after us. Carrying stoned to fling after them is of course a possibility but I would
> like to have something more efficient. Does any one have experience with electronic devises: e.g.,
> http://www.petstime.com/DogOff.html

Many people on the touring list have indicated that the Dog Dazer works quite well:

http://www.securityworld.com/personalsafety/1012.html
 
W

Www.Raph.Nl

Guest
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> Last year in South East Asia we were sometimes **** scarred,
especially in
> Trat, where quite a few dogs charged after us. Carrying stoned to
fling
> after them is of course a possibility but I would like to have
something
> more efficient. Does any one have experience with electronic
devises: e.g.,
> http://www.petstime.com/DogOff.html
>
> Per http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/fu99/MTB.html
>

Hello Per,

Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the perfect
solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the Navajo Reservation
in Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution may sound like a joke, but
I can assure you that it's not; it really worked. A warning, however: don't try it if you're not
totally confident. Dogs will notice it and may attack!

CU!

Raph www.raph.nl
 
F

Frank Riley

Guest
"www.raph.nl" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1046729989.595642 @halkan.kabelfoon.nl:

> Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the perfect
> solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the Navajo
> Reservation in Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution may sound
> like a joke, but I can assure you that it's not; it really worked. A warning, however: don't try
> it if you're not totally confident. Dogs will notice it and may attack!

I will be cycling through the Navajo Nation this summer. Did you encounter a lot of dogs there?
 
P

Per LöWdin

Guest
> Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the perfect
> solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the Navajo
> Reservation in Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution may sound
> like a joke, but I can assure you that it's not; it really worked. A warning, however: don't try
> it if you're not totally confident. Dogs will notice it and may attack!

It works. At least in Asia you can scare off most dogs by acting totally confident and appear
threatening, by having a I-will-take-no-****-you-lousy-dog attitude, backed up with stones. That
is how the locals deal with them. And the implicit threat is enough, so you rarely if ever
actually have to throw the stones. However, it is demanding when there is a dog every kilometres
or so. In parts of Trat in Thailand we could not relax, felt that any dog might give chase and
charge almost any time, we had to be constantly looking for dogs, and be prepared to fend them off
with shouts and stones. Not any fun. Best would be if you could stop them in their tracks with
just a push of a button.

Per
 
D

David Kunz

Guest
Per Löwdin wrote:
>>Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the perfect
>>solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the Navajo
>>Reservation in Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution may sound
>>like a joke, but I can assure you that it's not; it really worked. A warning, however: don't try
>>it if you're not totally confident. Dogs will notice it and may attack!
>
>
> It works. At least in Asia you can scare off most dogs by acting totally confident and appear
> threatening, by having a I-will-take-no-****-you-lousy-dog attitude, backed up with stones. That
> is how the locals deal with them. And the implicit threat is enough, so you rarely if ever
> actually have to throw the stones. However, it is demanding when there is a dog every kilometres
> or so. In parts of Trat in Thailand we could not relax, felt that any dog might give chase and
> charge almost any time, we had to be constantly looking for dogs, and be prepared to fend them off
> with shouts and stones. Not any fun. Best would be if you could stop them in their tracks with
> just a push of a button.
>

Works here in the US too. Best if you yell BAD DOG... NO in a very loud, confident, commanding
voice. Most dogs that have been around people know these words and their meaning/consequences. I've
tried just yelling and adding those words usually helps.

David
 
S

Steve Shapiro

Guest
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the perfect
> > solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the Navajo
> > Reservation in Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution may sound
> > like a joke, but I can assure you that it's not; it really worked. A warning, however: don't try
> > it if you're not totally confident. Dogs will notice it and may attack!
>
> It works. At least in Asia you can scare off most dogs by acting totally confident and appear
> threatening, by having a I-will-take-no-****-you-lousy-dog attitude, backed up with stones. That
> is how the locals deal with them. And the implicit threat is enough, so you rarely if ever
> actually have to throw the stones. However, it is demanding when there is a dog every kilometres
> or so. In parts of Trat in Thailand we could not relax, felt that any dog might give chase and
> charge almost any time, we had to be constantly looking for dogs, and be prepared to fend them off
> with shouts and stones. Not any fun. Best would be if you could stop them in their tracks with
> just a push of a button.
>
> Per

If you are looking for something that is cheap and very effective, ammonia spray works well.
Ordinary household ammonia, dispensed from a hand pump bottle (the kind that can shoot a good
stream), will stop a dog if you hit it anywhere in the face.

Steve Shapiro
 
C

Callistus Valer

Guest
> I will be cycling through the Navajo Nation this summer. Did you encounter a lot of dogs there?

Indian reservation towns are always full of loose dogs. They usually chase you in 2 to 3 dog
packs, sometimes more. I've never had one try to bite me though. They are usually Heinz 57's,
not attack dogs. I've never seen an attack breed.
 
S

Steve Shapiro

Guest
[email protected] (Steve Shapiro) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the
> > > perfect solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the
> > > Navajo Reservation in Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution
> > > may sound like a joke, but I can assure you that it's not; it really worked. A warning,
> > > however: don't try it if you're not totally confident. Dogs will notice it and may attack!
> >
> > It works. At least in Asia you can scare off most dogs by acting totally confident and appear
> > threatening, by having a I-will-take-no-****-you-lousy-dog attitude, backed up with stones. That
> > is how the locals deal with them. And the implicit threat is enough, so you rarely if ever
> > actually have to throw the stones. However, it is demanding when there is a dog every kilometres
> > or so. In parts of Trat in Thailand we could not relax, felt that any dog might give chase and
> > charge almost any time, we had to be constantly looking for dogs, and be prepared to fend them
> > off with shouts and stones. Not any fun. Best would be if you could stop them in their tracks
> > with just a push of a button.
> >
> > Per
>
>
> If you are looking for something that is cheap and very effective, ammonia spray works well.
> Ordinary household ammonia, dispensed from a hand pump bottle (the kind that can shoot a good
> stream), will stop a dog if you hit it anywhere in the face.
>
> Steve Shapiro

My previos posting seems cold hearted upon re-read. Actually, I love dogs and my preference is not
to hurt them. I would try first to run or brandish my frame pump. I'd use the amonia if the other
methods failed. Steve Shapiro
 
O

One Of The Six

Guest
"David Kunz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0E%[email protected]...
>
> Works here in the US too. Best if you yell BAD DOG... NO in a very loud, confident, commanding
> voice. Most dogs that have been around people know these words and their meaning/consequences.
> I've tried just yelling and adding those words usually helps.
>

One time in the heat of a chasing dog I somehow came up with a loud "get off the couch". I was
amazed that the dog stopped dead in its tracks. (I was equally amazed that I came up with that)
 
P

Per LöWdin

Guest
LOL
> One time in the heat of a chasing dog I somehow came up with a loud "get off the couch". I was
> amazed that the dog stopped dead in its tracks. (I was equally amazed that I came up with that)
 
P

Per LöWdin

Guest
> I love dogs and my preference is not to hurt them.

Of course, we would rather not hurt them either, but they are a problem. As long as dog charges are
rare, far less than one a day, it can be handled by being stern, barking back, or whatever. But when
there is a bunch of dogs that give chase every other kilometre it would be nice to have an efficient
way of putting them off. I would prefer an electronic devise to amoniak.

Per
 
C

Chuck Anderson

Guest
Steve Shapiro wrote:

> [email protected] (Steve Shapiro) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the
> > > > perfect solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the
> > > > Navajo Reservation in Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution
> > > > may sound like a joke, but I can assure you that it's not; it really worked. A warning,
> > > > however: don't try it if you're not totally confident. Dogs will notice it and may attack!
> > >
> > > It works. At least in Asia you can scare off most dogs by acting totally confident and appear
> > > threatening, by having a I-will-take-no-****-you-lousy-dog attitude, backed up with stones.
> > > That is how the locals deal with them. And the implicit threat is enough, so you rarely if
> > > ever actually have to throw the stones. However, it is demanding when there is a dog every
> > > kilometres or so. In parts of Trat in Thailand we could not relax, felt that any dog might
> > > give chase and charge almost any time, we had to be constantly looking for dogs, and be
> > > prepared to fend them off with shouts and stones. Not any fun. Best would be if you could stop
> > > them in their tracks with just a push of a button.
> > >
> > > Per
> >
> >
> > If you are looking for something that is cheap and very effective, ammonia spray works well.
> > Ordinary household ammonia, dispensed from a hand pump bottle (the kind that can shoot a good
> > stream), will stop a dog if you hit it anywhere in the face.
> >
> > Steve Shapiro
>
> My previos posting seems cold hearted upon re-read. Actually, I love dogs and my preference is not
> to hurt them. I would try first to run or brandish my frame pump. I'd use the amonia if the other
> methods failed.

Understood. It IS scary when snarling teeth come running at you, so any defense is appropriate at
the time to save your ass (ankles? *).

I have learned to shout out, "Come on boy! Let's get going! Let's see how far we can run together!"
And then I enjoy a fast ride with my new, tongue flopping friend (much like Ralph's idea about
cheering).

This has worked for me (so far), as the dog seems to like it - and I like thinking that the owner is
going to end up scratching his hollow head and wondering where in the hell Rover went.

* As a side note, and to maybe alter this thread. How many people have actually been injured in a
dog encounter? Can we hear those stories? Is the fear well founded?

--
**********************************************
Chuck Anderson • Boulder, CO CycleTourist at http://www.CycleTourist.com attbi.com Tolerance is
recognizing that other people have different ideals and needs than you. Compromise is acting on
that knowledge.
***********************************************************
 
N

Norm

Guest
X-No-Archive: Yes Chuck Anderson wrote:

> * As a side note, and to maybe alter this thread. How many people have actually been injured in a
> dog encounter? Can we hear those stories? Is the fear well founded?

Yesterdays (march 4th) FL StPete Times had a section B cover story on a young woman rider of
~200mi/week whose misadventures recently including injuries on a bike from a dog attack.
http://www.sptimes.com

I've been lucky but due at least in part to having Halt! on all my bikes, the more dangerous moments
were from condition inattention or swerving due to dog attacks and as someone pointed out dogs in
packs are the worse.

--
Do not perform these tasks out of order: 1--Put your contacts in 2--Urinate 3--Slice the jalapenos
for the nachos 4--Varnish the cabinet <AHBoU
 
J

Jay Hill

Guest
> * As a side note, and to maybe alter this thread. How many people have actually been injured in a
> dog encounter?
>
Come on. Do you mean per day? I've been ripped up twice by dogs, once while on my bike. At least one
of those dogs is dead as a result, but dog attacks are a constant part of riding. I've also seen
friends of mine get ripped. It's the owners' fault, but the dogs sometimes have to pay with their
lives. Only sometimes do the owners have to pay a fine of some kind.
 
P

Per LöWdin

Guest
> I have learned to shout out, "Come on boy! Let's get going! Let's see
how far we can run together!" And then I
> enjoy a fast ride with my new, tongue flopping friend (much like Ralph's
idea about cheering).

There are a lot of different dogs around. Admittedly some are young dogs who just like to play and
would not bite. They are just having fun. Most common I think is that they want you off their turf
so they give chase to the next dogs territory. Some races that have been bred to herd livestock may
wag their tails when you come and then bark like hell trying to prevent you from leaving. There are
also some who really bite. And, some who don´t bark just go straight for you leg from behind. Etc.

> * As a side note, and to maybe alter this thread. How many people have
actually been injured in a dog encounter? Can
> we hear those stories?

There is a thread at www.funsportmoutain.bike in Swedish by someone who was just bitten. Passed a
guy at a fire road and the dog was behind the guy and just went for his leg. Personally, I have
never been hurt but we have had two close calls. Once on Bali and once in northern Thailand when
huge dogs have come charging after us. Both times we have stopped jumped behind the bikes to have
them as shields and yelled at the dogs disciplining them.

> Is the fear well founded?

Absolutely, when you have a huge snarling dog snapping after your leg on one side and a heavy flow
of heavy vehicles on the other it can be extremely dangerous.

Per
 
D

David Kunz

Guest
Chuck Anderson wrote: ...
> * As a side note, and to maybe alter this thread. How many people have actually been injured in a
> dog encounter? Can we hear those stories? Is the fear well founded?

I've been pretty lucky. The only dog that acutally bit me didn't get a good hold and only left big
welts in my ankle. I went yelling at some people near-by demanding to know who the owner was and
they claimed not to know (yea). BUT, the next time that I saw that dog, they had put up an
electronic (radio) fence :).

I get lots of dogs that I'm sure are going to bite me, but since I started with the NO... BAD DOG!,
I've had less of a problem. I've tried the friendship thing and it only works for some dogs --
didn't work for the one that bit me. I haven't tried "get off the couch" -- ROTFLAMO!

My other close calls are the darting ones that want to play by getting in your way <sigh>. I hope
that I never connect with one.

David
 
D

David Newman

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Chuck Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:

> * As a side note, and to maybe alter this thread. How many people have actually been injured in a
> dog encounter? Can we hear those stories? Is the fear well founded?

My uncle was riding at a slow pace talking to someone who was walking at the same pace. A small dog
somehow got under his front wheel and caused him to crash. He fell awkwardly and his upper leg was
broken. I don't have any more details, but this shows that even slow speed crashes can be pretty
dangerous.

I have heard second-hand that a member of my bike club crashed while trying to avoid a large barking
dog that was chasing him. I don't know exactly what his injuries were, but the second-hand reports
indicate that he and his bike were messed up pretty badly.

Most people seem to think that the greatest danger from dogs is being bitten. I used to think so
too, but I have slowly changed my mind. I now think the greatest danger is a dog-induced crash.

When I am chased by a dog, I tend to look at the dog rather than at where I am going. I can easily
see this causing a crash. I can also see an enthusiastic and friendly dog leaping at a rider and
knocking the rider down. I can see a running dog getting under the bike by accident and causing the
rider to go down. Finally, I can see a dog trying to bite a rider and pulling the rider down without
actually succeeding in biting.

I think dog bites are emphasized by the press since there is a public safety issue regarding vicious
dogs anyway, and most readers and reporters don't really care about bicycle crashes no matter how
they were caused. So I suspect that dog-bike crashes are under-reported. I hope others will respond
to your question regarding dog-related bicycling injuries -- perhaps this informal survey can shed
some more light on whether crashes or bites are more prevalent.

>>Dave
 
R

Robert Taylor

Guest
In 20 years I've had two injuries from dogs and oddly, both were friendly ones. The first was when
my neighbor's dog decided to go along when I went for a ride and after trotting on my right decided
to cross in front of me. I hit her, went up over the handlebars, turned a flip in the ait, and
landed on one hip and flopped backwards onto the pavement. I heard my helmet hit with a loud smack
(one of only two times that I would have been injured without the helmet) and then I began to move
carefully to see what parts of my body still worked. All did and so I remounted the bike and pressed
on. The dog was uninjured. Wow was I stiff and sore the next morning.

On the second occasion two dogs came out from a farmhouse to chase me, an old, fat, slow dog and a
young speedy one. I could have outrun the old dog but not the young one so I just stopped and
stood there and said "OK dog you've got me, now what?" They don't know what to do with the cyclist
once they've caught him and so soon they look bewildered and wander off (if I'm worried that the
dog might continue after I stop I just keep the bike between myself and the dog. That's a problem
when there is more than one dog). Soon the young dog wandered off and the old one was silling
beside me waiting to be petted. I've learned not to do that because the dog will often follow if
you do. I pulled the right pedal up to start off again and just as my calf muscle tensed the old
dog bit the back of it. Sunk a fang into it and then sat down to be petted again. I didn't pet him
but went and knocked on the farmhouse door. Nobody was home so I noted the name on the mailbox and
pressed on (the old dog didn't follow me back to the road). Later in the day I called the dog
owner to complain. I didn't want anything from him except to ***** about what had happened. He had
the usual response that the dog wasn't aggressive (which was true but still I had blood on my leg)
and I was still pretty rattled from the experience so I ended up questioning his parentage and
then hung up and called the sheriff. The sheriff called back in a few minutes and said that the
dog owner said I'd cursed at him. I agreed that I had indeed done so and that I didn't want
anything more than to complain.

I've had good luck with the "OK dog you've got me, now what?" approach described above and also with
just riding directly at a dog, becomming the aggressor. The dog nearly always turns tail and
retreats. This doesn't work if the dog is approaching from behind.

I have heard guys speak of outrunning a dog but for me that would have to be a pretty slow dog. Most
dogs can run very fast and an unsuccessful attempt to outrun a dog means that you're going awfully
fast if you hit him and so you'd go down very hard. I worry a lot more about hitting the dog and
going down than about being bitten.

My wife gave me a Tazer electronic dog repeller but I was never sure whether it was effective or
not. Besides you have to take a hand off the bars to use it.

Halt works and it would work on humans too if necessary. I've gotten a drop on my skin and it
burns like mad. I know an hispanic guy who seasons food with Halt on occasion. (It's derived from
cayane pepper)

Strong amonia water will work too but I've always been concerned that it would do lasting damage
especially to a dog's eyes. Bob Taylor
 
W

Www.Raph.Nl

Guest
"Frank Riley" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> "www.raph.nl" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1046729989.595642 @halkan.kabelfoon.nl:
>
> > Take a look at http://home.hccnet.nl/raph.de.rooij/1993-usa/61.htm There you'll find the perfect
> > solution: effective and guaranteed animal friendly. It was "field tested" in the Navajo
> > Reservation
in
> > Arizona and at numerous other occasions. To some readers the solution may sound like a joke,
> > but I can
assure
> > you that it's not; it really worked. A warning, however: don't try it if you're not totally
> > confident.
Dogs
> > will notice it and may attack!
>
> I will be cycling through the Navajo Nation this summer. Did you
encounter
> a lot of dogs there?

Yep.
 
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