Protein grams and portion control??? Pastorio?



O

OmManiPadmeOmelet

Guest
Need some help here, if you are trying to estimate protein grams and
calorie counts for dietary restriction, do you weigh the meat raw or
cooked?

What do you do about bone-in chicken and meat weight estimates?

I'm grilling some chicken drumsticks, what is the meat weight versus the
bone weight?

I know I can just de-bone the cooked meat and weigh it by itself... ;-)
I'll have to wait until they cool enough to do that.

But the first question still remains!

Thanks!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
[email protected]:

> Need some help here, if you are trying to estimate protein grams and
> calorie counts for dietary restriction, do you weigh the meat raw or
> cooked?
>
> What do you do about bone-in chicken and meat weight estimates?
>
> I'm grilling some chicken drumsticks, what is the meat weight versus
the
> bone weight?
>
> I know I can just de-bone the cooked meat and weigh it by itself... ;-)
> I'll have to wait until they cool enough to do that.
>
> But the first question still remains!
>
> Thanks!


Om,

Weigh meat after cooking for your protein/calorie count, since the method
of cooking effects the resulting calorie count and nutritional data.

Here are two good places to start. You'll catch on, just take your time,
it can be confusing at first.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

and similar (draws from the same database with different gui/info):

http://www.nutritiondata.com/

All the best,

Andy
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:

>
> Om,
>
> Weigh meat after cooking for your protein/calorie count, since the method
> of cooking effects the resulting calorie count and nutritional data.
>
> Here are two good places to start. You'll catch on, just take your time,
> it can be confusing at first.
>
> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
>
> and similar (draws from the same database with different gui/info):
>
> http://www.nutritiondata.com/
>
> All the best,
>
> Andy

Thanks Andy!

Got those bookmarked for reference and am reading them. :)

Right now for the meat, I am mostly using the Hamilton grill.
It's identical to the Foreman grill so drains most of the oils/fats off.
Drumsticks are leaner than thighs, but winglets are mostly bone so those
will be the most difficult!

I just really am not overly fond of boneless skinless breast meat. Too
dry! I did buy some boneless skinless thighs and thawed them, then used
the poultry shears to remove as much of the large fat pads as I could
before grilling them.

They are quite good!

Also put up some 6 oz. portions of trimmed beef bottom round.....

raw. ;-d

I get so damned hungry trying to do this. Thank gods for celery!
It's filling and satisfying. So is fresh frozen cooked spinach.

I'll have to check shrimp prices next week, and I have plenty of whiting
in the freezer. Catfish is going to be out for now :-( My favorite fish
but too high in fat. You should see the amount of oil that cooks out of
those fillets when I grill them in the Hamilton!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>>
>> Om,
>>
>> Weigh meat after cooking for your protein/calorie count, since the
>> method of cooking effects the resulting calorie count and nutritional
>> data.
>>
>> Here are two good places to start. You'll catch on, just take your
>> time, it can be confusing at first.
>>
>> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
>>
>> and similar (draws from the same database with different gui/info):
>>
>> http://www.nutritiondata.com/
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Andy
>
> Thanks Andy!
>
> Got those bookmarked for reference and am reading them. :)
>
> Right now for the meat, I am mostly using the Hamilton grill.
> It's identical to the Foreman grill so drains most of the oils/fats
> off. Drumsticks are leaner than thighs, but winglets are mostly bone
> so those will be the most difficult!
>
> I just really am not overly fond of boneless skinless breast meat. Too
> dry! I did buy some boneless skinless thighs and thawed them, then
> used the poultry shears to remove as much of the large fat pads as I
> could before grilling them.
>
> They are quite good!
>
> Also put up some 6 oz. portions of trimmed beef bottom round.....
>
> raw. ;-d
>
> I get so damned hungry trying to do this. Thank gods for celery!
> It's filling and satisfying. So is fresh frozen cooked spinach.
>
> I'll have to check shrimp prices next week, and I have plenty of
> whiting in the freezer. Catfish is going to be out for now :-( My
> favorite fish but too high in fat. You should see the amount of oil
> that cooks out of those fillets when I grill them in the Hamilton!


Om,

I ditched my forman grill into the dumpster last year but my bud gave me
a mini one for Christmas. It does hotdogs "*****in" but those grills will
dry the hell out of chicken or catfish or burgers.

I cook those in a glass-covered saute pot (tall sided pan) to keep the
moisture from escaping. Usually the food drowns in it's own fat but the
texture is just as you'd expect from a restaurant.

That reminds me, I have a doc appointment tomorrow for bloodwork,
cholesterol, etc.

*sigh*

Andy
 
One time on Usenet, OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> said:

> Need some help here, if you are trying to estimate protein grams and
> calorie counts for dietary restriction, do you weigh the meat raw or
> cooked?

I'm not Mr. Pastorio (nor do I play him on tv) but I weigh mine
after it's been cooked. I've lost 22 pounds since Nov. 1st.

> What do you do about bone-in chicken and meat weight estimates?
>
> I'm grilling some chicken drumsticks, what is the meat weight versus the
> bone weight?
>
> I know I can just de-bone the cooked meat and weigh it by itself... ;-)
> I'll have to wait until they cool enough to do that.
>
> But the first question still remains!

Here's a great resource for calorie and macronutrient counts, Om:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=12354500

I've used their software and IIRC, it gives information for both
raw and cooked meats, with and without bones. HTH!


--
JJ (Jani) in WA
~ mom, Trollop, novice cook ~
 
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> Need some help here, if you are trying to estimate protein grams and
> calorie counts for dietary restriction, do you weigh the meat raw or
> cooked?

Cooked. The % balance of nutrients will change in the process, mostly
with loss of both fat and water-based juices.

Use the USDA database. It's what most of the others are based on.
<http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/>

But I caution you against trying to get exact figures. First, there are
only charts for the dead food that's already gone. Yours may be
different sizes or different composition or whatever. Second, since your
caloric usage isn't calculated exactly, your intake can't be, either.
Since everybody's body uses food differently than everybody else's, it
will be trial and error until you get a good handle on your needs.

The database is a good, useful approximation.

> What do you do about bone-in chicken and meat weight estimates?

You use yield factors for things like that. Professional culinary texts
will often carry that kind of info.

Here's a quick chart for bone-in Chicken:
% usable meat/finished portion ounces from 1 pound cooked
Whole Body 52-54%/8.5
Parts Breast 62-64%/10.0
Hindquarter 48-50%/8.0 (leg and thigh)
Drumstick 46-48%/7.5
Thigh 52-54%/8.5
Wing 42-45%/7.0

These are "reasonable" values for average chickens.

> I'm grilling some chicken drumsticks, what is the meat weight versus the
> bone weight?

Depends on the age of the critter when it was killed, although a
reasonably normal yield ratio is 46% to 48% of cooked weight, depending
on degree of doneness. The more cooked, the less weight. Less fat, less
moisture. The cook range for the percentages is 160° to 180°. I can't
recommend the higher temperature finish. Dry chicken.

> I know I can just de-bone the cooked meat and weigh it by itself... ;-)
> I'll have to wait until they cool enough to do that.

Nah. Weigh the cooked whatever before you eat and then weigh the sad,
depleted and savaged carcass afterward. Those poor, innocent, pillaged,
gnawed bones. Subtract the weight of the formerly living, breathing
flesh from the now-murdered, plundered bones. Voila. The difference
("delta" to an engineer or mathematician) is the weight of what you
actually consumed.

Or you can eat it, weighing yourself before and after.

No, seriously...

Pastorio
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Om,
> >>
> >> Weigh meat after cooking for your protein/calorie count, since the
> >> method of cooking effects the resulting calorie count and nutritional
> >> data.
> >>
> >> Here are two good places to start. You'll catch on, just take your
> >> time, it can be confusing at first.
> >>
> >> http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
> >>
> >> and similar (draws from the same database with different gui/info):
> >>
> >> http://www.nutritiondata.com/
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
> > Thanks Andy!
> >
> > Got those bookmarked for reference and am reading them. :)
> >
> > Right now for the meat, I am mostly using the Hamilton grill.
> > It's identical to the Foreman grill so drains most of the oils/fats
> > off. Drumsticks are leaner than thighs, but winglets are mostly bone
> > so those will be the most difficult!
> >
> > I just really am not overly fond of boneless skinless breast meat. Too
> > dry! I did buy some boneless skinless thighs and thawed them, then
> > used the poultry shears to remove as much of the large fat pads as I
> > could before grilling them.
> >
> > They are quite good!
> >
> > Also put up some 6 oz. portions of trimmed beef bottom round.....
> >
> > raw. ;-d
> >
> > I get so damned hungry trying to do this. Thank gods for celery!
> > It's filling and satisfying. So is fresh frozen cooked spinach.
> >
> > I'll have to check shrimp prices next week, and I have plenty of
> > whiting in the freezer. Catfish is going to be out for now :-( My
> > favorite fish but too high in fat. You should see the amount of oil
> > that cooks out of those fillets when I grill them in the Hamilton!
>
>
> Om,
>
> I ditched my forman grill into the dumpster last year but my bud gave me
> a mini one for Christmas. It does hotdogs "*****in" but those grills will
> dry the hell out of chicken or catfish or burgers.

They can IF you over cook!
Marinade and shorter cooking times.

>
> I cook those in a glass-covered saute pot (tall sided pan) to keep the
> moisture from escaping. Usually the food drowns in it's own fat but the
> texture is just as you'd expect from a restaurant.

Well, I DO like the fact that the fat drains off.
I'm fixin' to pick up a decent toaster oven tho'.
It has it's own charms.

>
> That reminds me, I have a doc appointment tomorrow for bloodwork,
> cholesterol, etc.
>
> *sigh*
>
> Andy

Post the results? :)

My total Cholesterol tends to be a bit high (around 240) but I believe
that a high triglyceride is worse! My last one was all the way down to
32. Results from low carbing! It's been as high as 300...

HDL fluctuates. Been as low as 35 and all the way up to 105!!! Floating
around 70 at the moment.

Wierd thing, shrimp drives up my HDL for several days! I've checked it
several times and it does it every single time. It was 73 a couple of
weeks ago, 3 days after eating shrimp.

HDL is the GOOD cholesterol.

Be sure to get a hemoglobin A1C

Good luck!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (JJ - RFC) wrote:

> I'm not Mr. Pastorio (nor do I play him on tv) but I weigh mine
> after it's been cooked. I've lost 22 pounds since Nov. 1st.

Well done!
That is an excellent start.

>
> > What do you do about bone-in chicken and meat weight estimates?
> >
> > I'm grilling some chicken drumsticks, what is the meat weight versus the
> > bone weight?
> >
> > I know I can just de-bone the cooked meat and weigh it by itself... ;-)
> > I'll have to wait until they cool enough to do that.
> >
> > But the first question still remains!
>
> Here's a great resource for calorie and macronutrient counts, Om:
>
> http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=12354500

Awesome JJ, thanks!

>
> I've used their software and IIRC, it gives information for both
> raw and cooked meats, with and without bones. HTH!
>
>
> --
> JJ (Jani) in WA
> ~ mom, Trollop, novice cook ~
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:44:03 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:

>Here are two good places to start. You'll catch on, just take your time,
>it can be confusing at first.
>
>http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

I've converted the SR18 Database into SQL Server 2005 (VIA a VB
app that bulkcopy's the MDB version) if anybody needs it, email
me. I'm just putting the finishing touches on it now. COuld be
imported into most any SQL-based server from there. I can also do
xBase formats, too.

This is the complete database with references. Much more than
what's included with the pc18.exe search utility (though I admit I
haven't used pc18).

-sw
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > Need some help here, if you are trying to estimate protein grams and
> > calorie counts for dietary restriction, do you weigh the meat raw or
> > cooked?
>
> Cooked. The % balance of nutrients will change in the process, mostly
> with loss of both fat and water-based juices.

Cool! :)

>
> Use the USDA database. It's what most of the others are based on.
> <http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/>

Danke!
It was posted earlier also, but worth the re-run.
I think Andy posted it.

>
> But I caution you against trying to get exact figures. First, there are
> only charts for the dead food that's already gone. Yours may be
> different sizes or different composition or whatever. Second, since your
> caloric usage isn't calculated exactly, your intake can't be, either.
> Since everybody's body uses food differently than everybody else's, it
> will be trial and error until you get a good handle on your needs.

Well, this type of diet is pretty much foolproof.
Lyle calculates it based on the amount of weight you need to lose, and
your current weight and body composition, as well as gender.

100 to 120 grams of protein per day is about it for me, the rest is all
"negative calorie" type foods. High fiber, low starch/sugar. I've been
low carbing long enough now, I pretty much know what to avoid. <G>
I also know what my body responds to.

>
> The database is a good, useful approximation.
>
> > What do you do about bone-in chicken and meat weight estimates?
>
> You use yield factors for things like that. Professional culinary texts
> will often carry that kind of info.
>
> Here's a quick chart for bone-in Chicken:
> % usable meat/finished portion ounces from 1 pound cooked
> Whole Body 52-54%/8.5
> Parts Breast 62-64%/10.0
> Hindquarter 48-50%/8.0 (leg and thigh)
> Drumstick 46-48%/7.5
> Thigh 52-54%/8.5
> Wing 42-45%/7.0

Perfect! :)

>
> These are "reasonable" values for average chickens.
>
> > I'm grilling some chicken drumsticks, what is the meat weight versus the
> > bone weight?
>
> Depends on the age of the critter when it was killed, although a
> reasonably normal yield ratio is 46% to 48% of cooked weight, depending
> on degree of doneness. The more cooked, the less weight. Less fat, less
> moisture. The cook range for the percentages is 160° to 180°. I can't
> recommend the higher temperature finish. Dry chicken.

The grill I'm using does not have temp. regulation. All I can do is
regulate the time. I cook it until the meat is just done, slightly pink
at the bone. Experimentation has shown me that if I load it up with
drumsticks (arranged well, it holds 12 pieces to the 4 lb. bag) 20
minutes is perfect.

For wings, Frozen, full grill, 12 minutes. Thawed, 8 minutes. The
Hamilton is a large grill and I CLOSE the top so both sides cook at the
same time.

It ain't dry. ;-) But thanks!

>
> > I know I can just de-bone the cooked meat and weigh it by itself... ;-)
> > I'll have to wait until they cool enough to do that.
>
> Nah. Weigh the cooked whatever before you eat and then weigh the sad,

Thought about that. <G> I remove the gristly ends for the dogs tho', so
I need to weigh the bones prior to doing that.

> depleted and savaged carcass afterward. Those poor, innocent, pillaged,
> gnawed bones.

Yummy!

> Subtract the weight of the formerly living, breathing
> flesh from the now-murdered, plundered bones. Voila. The difference
> ("delta" to an engineer or mathematician) is the weight of what you
> actually consumed.

Dead bird. It's a good thing!

>
> Or you can eat it, weighing yourself before and after.

ROFL!!!

>
> No, seriously...
>
> Pastorio

Thanks dear! <smooch>
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:44:03 -0600, Andy <q> wrote:
>
> >Here are two good places to start. You'll catch on, just take your time,
> >it can be confusing at first.
> >
> >http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
>
> I've converted the SR18 Database into SQL Server 2005 (VIA a VB
> app that bulkcopy's the MDB version) if anybody needs it, email
> me. I'm just putting the finishing touches on it now. COuld be
> imported into most any SQL-based server from there. I can also do
> xBase formats, too.
>
> This is the complete database with references. Much more than
> what's included with the pc18.exe search utility (though I admit I
> haven't used pc18).
>
> -sw

Uh, English please???? ;-)
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
> [email protected]:
>
> > Be sure to get a hemoglobin A1C
>
>
> Please explain!
>
> Andy

Hemoglobin A1C shows your average glucose (blood sugar) levels over the
past 90 days.

A far, far more accurate estimation of Insulin resistance, and
developing type II Diabetes.

My Endocrinologist uses it exclusively. :)
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>> > Be sure to get a hemoglobin A1C
>>
>>
>> Please explain!
>>
>> Andy
>
> Hemoglobin A1C shows your average glucose (blood sugar) levels over the
> past 90 days.
>
> A far, far more accurate estimation of Insulin resistance, and
> developing type II Diabetes.
>
> My Endocrinologist uses it exclusively. :)


Om,

Thank you. I will ask for that test!!!

Andy
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
> [email protected]:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:
> >
> >> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
> >> [email protected]:
> >>
> >> > Be sure to get a hemoglobin A1C
> >>
> >>
> >> Please explain!
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
> > Hemoglobin A1C shows your average glucose (blood sugar) levels over the
> > past 90 days.
> >
> > A far, far more accurate estimation of Insulin resistance, and
> > developing type II Diabetes.
> >
> > My Endocrinologist uses it exclusively. :)
>
>
> Om,
>
> Thank you. I will ask for that test!!!
>
> Andy

Cheers!
And keeping fingers crossed that all is well......

I have to go for the "Annual Indignity" next month. :p
I know guys have their version of that too. <lol>
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>> > Be sure to get a hemoglobin A1C
>>
>>
>> Please explain!
>>
>> Andy
>
> Hemoglobin A1C shows your average glucose (blood sugar) levels over the
> past 90 days.
>
> A far, far more accurate estimation of Insulin resistance, and
> developing type II Diabetes.
>
> My Endocrinologist uses it exclusively. :)


Om,

So I ask a for cholesterol/triglyceride/hemoglobin A1C bloodwork exam? Is
there any redundancy in this bloodwork?

Andy
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
> [email protected]:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:
> >
> >> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
> >> [email protected]:
> >>
> >> > Be sure to get a hemoglobin A1C
> >>
> >>
> >> Please explain!
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
> > Hemoglobin A1C shows your average glucose (blood sugar) levels over the
> > past 90 days.
> >
> > A far, far more accurate estimation of Insulin resistance, and
> > developing type II Diabetes.
> >
> > My Endocrinologist uses it exclusively. :)
>
>
> Om,
>
> So I ask a for cholesterol/triglyceride/hemoglobin A1C bloodwork exam? Is
> there any redundancy in this bloodwork?
>
> Andy

No....... ;-)

Fasting Glucose is rendered obsolete by the HA1C is all. It's a common
request since the blood lipid profile (Cholesterol, Triglycerides, HDL
Cholesterol and LDL) is usually done fasting.

However, it can't hurt, A1C is a separate test from the common blood
profiles.

The Comprehensive profile we run does NOT include lipids, which you
need, but does test liver and kidney function, along with electrolytes.

Discuss the options with your doctor for the profiles your local lab
runs. Most are regulated somewhat by medicare compensation standards.
Even your health insurance tends to be influenced by that.

And never, NEVER be afraid to ask your doctor for what you want! You'd
be well advised to do some googling, but cross reference cross reference
cross reference!!! A LOT of stuff on the 'net is ****! But you already
know that.

Hope this helps? :)

Dr. R. usually orders:

Comprehensive profile
Lipid profile
CBC (complete blood count)
ESR (Erythrocyte sedimentation rate)
T4, TSH, T3 uptake (thyroid function tests)
HA1C

That's reasonably thorough....

Just make sure your insurance will cover it all!!!!!!!!!


I have a thyroid problem, so I also get a Total T3 and free T3.

Most of her male patients I've seen come thru also get Testosterone
levels depending on their age.
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
[email protected]:

> Just make sure your insurance will cover it all!!!!!!!!!


I haven't had med insurance in decades. Medical has always been a tax
deduction.

Probably a biggest mistake!

Andy
 
In article <[email protected]>, Andy <q> wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet <[email protected]> wrote in news:Omelet-
> [email protected]:
>
> > Just make sure your insurance will cover it all!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> I haven't had med insurance in decades. Medical has always been a tax
> deduction.
>
> Probably a biggest mistake!
>
> Andy
>
>

Maybe... considering how HIGH that cost has to be now before you can
deduct it! :-( I don't remember the percentage off the top of my head
now that I do my taxes on line.......

OTOH, if you were to take the average medical insurance cost per month,
place it with a Raymond James broker and have it put into Mutual funds,
you may come out ahead.

I have insurance thru the hospital I work for. Most premiums are
prohibitive, mine is only about $60.00 per month. Yours would most
likely be around $300.00 and have an assinine deductibe. :-(

An investment with interest and only carry catastrophic insurance could
save you a bundle??????
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-*****." -Jack Nicholson
 
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:25:14 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Steve Wertz <[email protected]> wrote:

>> I've converted the SR18 Database into SQL Server 2005 (VIA a VB
>> app that bulkcopy's the MDB version) if anybody needs it, email
>> me. I'm just putting the finishing touches on it now. COuld be
>> imported into most any SQL-based server from there. I can also do
>> xBase formats, too.
>>
>> This is the complete database with references. Much more than
>> what's included with the pc18.exe search utility (though I admit I
>> haven't used pc18).
>
>Uh, English please???? ;-)

I do that on purpose. A lot of people see "Free" and they just
have to have it, even if they don't know what it is. If I throw
in some technical talk, then they get intimidated and don't waste
my time.

IOW: If y'all don't know what I was talking about, then you don't
need it :)

They had this hidden camera show where they put out a bin of
completely useless gadgets that they made specifically for this
experiment. It was some sort of twisted piece of cheap metal with
absolutely no purpose whatsoever.

On the bin they put a sign that said "Free". People would take
one look at these things and grab 5 or 6 of them (they were big,
too). Some even starting giving them to their kids to carry
because they couldn't carry them all.

The smart ones, though, took one look at them, shrugged and walked
away.

-sw
 
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