Protein Suppresses Hunger



"Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>

Dont know about you, but I'm descended from prehistoric man whose diet was
EXTREMELY high in protein
(if the hunt was successful, its likely the kill was a very lean mean
beastie, not todays super-market 20% fat content animal.
 
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:32:55 -0600, Aaron Baugher wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :

> Enrico C <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> From what? I said that kidneys "might" complain... Joe said
>> "probably" not. We are speaking of probabilities. Do you know *for
>> sure* your kidneys will be fine?
>
> Just as sure as I know I won't be struck by lightning today because
> the sky is clear.
>
> Besides, since when is 'might' a basis for an argument? You might
> kill someone some day; should we go ahead and lock you up now to
> prevent it? 'Might' without some numbers behind it isn't
> probabilities; it's politics.


I did provide some evidence.


http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/conten...&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=nutrition#B59

Journal of Nutrition. 2000;130:886-889.)

Metabolic Consequences of a High Dietary-Protein Intake in Adulthood:
Assessment of the Available Evidence


X'Posted to: alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
 
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:29:39 GMT, David Frank wrote in
<news:D[email protected]> on
alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :

> Dont know about you, but I'm descended from prehistoric man whose diet was
> EXTREMELY high in protein

How do you know?


> (if the hunt was successful, its likely the kill was a very lean mean
> beastie, not todays super-market 20% fat content animal.

X'Posted to: alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
 
Enrico C wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > Atkins is high fat not high protein, so that study is not relevant to
> > Atkins.
>
> Did I mention Atkins in my first post?

Threads morph. Replies are about the part of the thread that
is quoted.

> I don't think so.

It's called reading comprehension.

> | Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
> | long time. Your kidneys might complain...

Which is against the directions of every low carb plan currently
out there. And hence not relevant to the newsgroup ASDLC.

> | "There's no need to go overboard on protein and eat it to the
> | exclusion of everything else."
>
> Did you notice that the subject of this thread is about "protein",
> BTW?

Sure. That was the starting point for the thread. It was mention
of the fact that protien is more sating than carb. Next studies
need to compare fat and carb, fat and protein.

> So, that study *is* relevant.

Since no current low carb plans are high protein it's only relevance
on ASDLC is to demonstrate how illiterate people are about
low carb groups. Is it you won't read the books or you can't?

Since no current low carb plans are high protein but there were
some in the 1980s that were it's only relevance on SMN is how
much better the current plans are than those old ones and the
problems that occured back then when those old plans where
popular. If someone ever goes on one of those obsolete plans,
there are dangers.
 
David Frank wrote:
> Enrico C wrote:
>
> > Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
> > long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>
> Dont know about you, but I'm descended from prehistoric man whose diet was
> EXTREMELY high in protein
> (if the hunt was successful, its likely the kill was a very lean mean
> beastie, not todays super-market 20% fat content animal.

Carnivores in the wild selectively eat the fatty portions of their
prey first, and this partially offsets your point.

So if you have marbled meat, trimming off the visible chunks of
fat will roughly compensate for the higher fat content of farmed
animals.

Where your high protein concept would work better is on the
shoreline - Fin fish and shellfish tend to be higher protein and
lower fat than grass feeding herd animals. Fishing cultures
would have had low fat diets of plants growing near the shore
plus high protein diets of fin fish and shell fish.

So consider the cultures in the world that eat the highest
portion of fish - Do those cultures get kidney problems?

It's known that in the 1980s there were high protein diets that
were also low fat and low carb. Those diets did trigger deaths
and that's why they are now obsolete. They are also why
current low carb diets are higher in fat to correct for that
mistake. The question becomes if there's a fishing culture
that comes close to any of those diets from the 1980s and
thus where kidney problems would start.
 
"David Frank" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

>
>"Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
>> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>>
>
>Dont know about you, but I'm descended from prehistoric man whose diet was
>EXTREMELY high in protein
>(if the hunt was successful, its likely the kill was a very lean mean
>beastie, not todays super-market 20% fat content animal.
>

Actually, researchers say that prehistoric man ate the entire animal, not
just the meat. The meat was leaner, but after including the brain, liver,
etc., the fat content was higher.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email protected]
 
Enrico C wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > Atkins is high fat not high protein, so that study is not relevant to
> > Atkins.
>
> Did I mention Atkins in my first post?
> I don't think so.

Threads morph. It's called reading comprehension.

> | "There's no need to go overboard on protein and eat it to the
> | exclusion of everything else."
>
> Did you notice that the subject of this thread is about "protein",
> BTW?
>
> So, that study *is* relevant.

To the start of the study, not to the point in the discussion where
you posted it. Threads morph and it takes reading comprehension
to be able to tell that.

The study you cited are not relevant to low carbing as it is
actually described in the directions of any low carb plan as
written in books. As such it's only use on ASDLC is to
show how folks are willing to deflect the topic and on SMN
to show what can happen if folks utterly ignore the directions
of low carb plans. It's use is in the breech of topic.
 
"Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
portion of fish - Do those cultures get kidney problems?
>
> It's known that in the 1980s there were high protein diets that
> were also low fat and low carb. Those diets did trigger deaths

But prehistorics didnt have access to non-animal incomplete protein ****
like soy
 
Doug Freyburger wrote:

> Where your high protein concept would work better is on the
> shoreline - Fin fish and shellfish tend to be higher protein and
> lower fat than grass feeding herd animals. Fishing cultures
> would have had low fat diets of plants growing near the shore
> plus high protein diets of fin fish and shell fish.
>
> So consider the cultures in the world that eat the highest
> portion of fish - Do those cultures get kidney problems?
>
> It's known that in the 1980s there were high protein diets that
> were also low fat and low carb. Those diets did trigger deaths
> and that's why they are now obsolete. They are also why
> current low carb diets are higher in fat to correct for that
> mistake.

Is there data or is this a "conclusion".

> The question becomes if there's a fishing culture
> that comes close to any of those diets from the 1980s and
> thus where kidney problems would start.
>

Recent theories of the origin of the large brain of man suggest that
early abundance of fatty sea fish (and possibly freshwater fish) were
the/a main factor in the rapid evolution of the human brain to such a
large size.

It is hypothesized that the FAT availability was what helped drive the
growth of the brain, and from that larger brain flowed human or prehuman
brains that eventually led to the modern couch potato fueled by a diet
of carbohydrate starches and grains and french fries fried in vegetable
oil ...

You can probably dig this up from a Google News seach on evolution or
fish oil and brain. I read an article on this recently from either
Science Daily or New Scientist or Scientific American on the web in the
last couple of weeks.

Fish oils now come in bottles and capsules.

Maybe that is why our brains seem to be in decline in terms of knowing
how to eat. Just a "conclusion" of mine ... not a real fact.



--
1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
book
4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)
 
On 26 Feb 2006 09:04:46 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :

> Enrico C wrote:
>> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>>
>>> Atkins is high fat not high protein, so that study is not relevant to
>>> Atkins.
>>
>> Did I mention Atkins in my first post?
>
> Threads morph. Replies are about the part of the thread that
> is quoted.
>
>> I don't think so.
>
> It's called reading comprehension.

>>| Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
>>| long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>
> Which is against the directions of every low carb plan currently
> out there. And hence not relevant to the newsgroup ASDLC.


The study quoted in the original post was about "High-protein" and I
commented on that.




>>| "There's no need to go overboard on protein and eat it to the
>>| exclusion of everything else."
>>
>> Did you notice that the subject of this thread is about "protein",
>> BTW?
>
> Sure. That was the starting point for the thread. It was mention
> of the fact that protien is more sating than carb. Next studies
> need to compare fat and carb, fat and protein.
>
>> So, that study *is* relevant.
>
> Since no current low carb plans are high protein it's only relevance
> on ASDLC is to demonstrate how illiterate people are about
> low carb groups. Is it you won't read the books or you can't?
>
> Since no current low carb plans are high protein but there were
> some in the 1980s that were it's only relevance on SMN is how
> much better the current plans are than those old ones and the
> problems that occured back then when those old plans where
> popular. If someone ever goes on one of those obsolete plans,
> there are dangers.


Tell Mr Prehistoric Man, who
"descended from prehistoric man whose diet was EXTREMELY high in
protein"

X'Posted to: alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
 
"Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 24 Feb 2006 10:34:47 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
> <news:[email protected]> on
> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>
>> Joe the Aroma wrote:
>>> Enrico C wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
>>>> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>
>>> No they probably won't, actually.
>
> "Probably".
>
>
>> In fact you can tell someone's level of ignorance about
>> low carb from it.
>
> From what? I said that kidneys "might" complain... Joe said "probably"
> not. We are speaking of probabilities.
> Do you know *for sure* your kidneys will be fine?

Do you?
 
"Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 24 Feb 2006 10:34:47 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
> <news:[email protected]> on
> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>
>>>> BUT
>>>> "There's no need to go overboard on protein and eat it to the
>>>> exclusion of everything else."
>>>
>>> Why not?
>>
>> That's a different topic since it discusses high-protein low-carb
>> medium/low-fat
>
> Actually, it discusses "high-protein, low-carb diets", compared to
> "low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets".
>
>
> Be as it may, here is what Harvard says about Atkins-like diets:
>
> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/carbohydrates.html
> Some popular diets, particularly the Atkins diet, treat carbohydrates
> as if they are evil, the root of all body fat and excess weight. While
> there is some evidence that a low-carbohydrate diet may help people
> lose weight more quickly than a low-fat diet (12, 13), no one knows
> the long-term effects of eating little or no carbohydrates. Equally
> worrisome is the inclusion of unhealthy fats in some of these diets.
>
> If you want to go the lower carb route, try to include some fruits,
> vegetables, and whole-grain carbohydrates every day. They contain a
> host of vitamins, minerals, and other phytonutrients that are
> essential for good health and that you can't get out of a supplement
> bottle.

Well you've convinced me. Time to give up the diet I've lost 60 pounds on
and embrace alfalfa sprouts!
 
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:52:29 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :

> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 24 Feb 2006 10:34:47 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
>> <news:[email protected]> on
>> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>>
>>> Joe the Aroma wrote:
>>>> Enrico C wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
>>>>> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>>
>>>> No they probably won't, actually.
>>
>> "Probably".
>>
>>
>>> In fact you can tell someone's level of ignorance about
>>> low carb from it.
>>
>> From what? I said that kidneys "might" complain... Joe said "probably"
>> not. We are speaking of probabilities.
>> Do you know *for sure* your kidneys will be fine?
>
> Do you?

Nope! Of course... :)

But I believe chances will be higher if I don't go extremely
high-protein ;)

X'Posted to: alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
 
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:53:13 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :

> Well you've convinced me.

I didn't even try.

> Time to give up the diet I've lost 60 pounds on
> and embrace alfalfa sprouts!

You can lose 60 pounds on any diet, as long as you eat less and burn
more.




X'Posted to: alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
 
"Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:52:29 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
> <news:[email protected]> on
> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>
>> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 24 Feb 2006 10:34:47 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
>>> <news:[email protected]> on
>>> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>>>
>>>> Joe the Aroma wrote:
>>>>> Enrico C wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
>>>>>> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>>>
>>>>> No they probably won't, actually.
>>>
>>> "Probably".
>>>
>>>
>>>> In fact you can tell someone's level of ignorance about
>>>> low carb from it.
>>>
>>> From what? I said that kidneys "might" complain... Joe said "probably"
>>> not. We are speaking of probabilities.
>>> Do you know *for sure* your kidneys will be fine?
>>
>> Do you?
>
> Nope! Of course... :)
>
> But I believe chances will be higher if I don't go extremely
> high-protein ;)

I believe that's the silly. The human body is made to subsist on all sorts
of food. I suppose if by "extremely" high protein you mean 500-1000 g of
protein then ok, but the average low carb dieter will take in a bit more
protein than is recommended with, in my opinion, no detriment to his kidney
health. And he'll be a lot happier and stronger from the protein.
 
Joe the Aroma wrote:
> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:52:29 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
> > <news:[email protected]> on
> > alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
> >
> >> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >>> On 24 Feb 2006 10:34:47 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
> >>> <news:[email protected]> on
> >>> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
> >>>
> >>>> Joe the Aroma wrote:
> >>>>> Enrico C wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
> >>>>>> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
> >>>
> >>>>> No they probably won't, actually.
> >>>
> >>> "Probably".
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> In fact you can tell someone's level of ignorance about
> >>>> low carb from it.
> >>>
> >>> From what? I said that kidneys "might" complain... Joe said "probably"
> >>> not. We are speaking of probabilities.
> >>> Do you know *for sure* your kidneys will be fine?
> >>
> >> Do you?
> >
> > Nope! Of course... :)
> >
> > But I believe chances will be higher if I don't go extremely
> > high-protein ;)
>
> I believe that's the silly. The human body is made to subsist on all sorts
> of food. I suppose if by "extremely" high protein you mean 500-1000 g of
> protein then ok, but the average low carb dieter will take in a bit more
> protein than is recommended with, in my opinion, no detriment to his kidney
> health. And he'll be a lot happier and stronger from the protein.

The max. recommended comes to about 120 grams per day for an average
male. I am average and I eat a lot of meat and I rarely get over 100
grams per day.

TC
 
"Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:53:13 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
> <news:[email protected]> on
> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>
>> Well you've convinced me.
>
> I didn't even try.
>
>> Time to give up the diet I've lost 60 pounds on
>> and embrace alfalfa sprouts!
>
> You can lose 60 pounds on any diet, as long as you eat less and burn
> more.

Indeed, and I could do calorie restriction to do such as I was doing before
I switched to low carb. The thing is life wouldn't be as good for me as it
on this diet, I'd have to maintain a zen-like state to ignore my hunger, I'd
be constantly worrying about getting enough protein and losing muscle.
 
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:05:38 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :

> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:52:29 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
>> <news:[email protected]> on
>> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>>
>>> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On 24 Feb 2006 10:34:47 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
>>>> <news:[email protected]> on
>>>> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>>>>
>>>>> Joe the Aroma wrote:
>>>>>> Enrico C wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for a
>>>>>>> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>>>>
>>>>>> No they probably won't, actually.
>>>>
>>>> "Probably".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In fact you can tell someone's level of ignorance about
>>>>> low carb from it.
>>>>
>>>> From what? I said that kidneys "might" complain... Joe said "probably"
>>>> not. We are speaking of probabilities.
>>>> Do you know *for sure* your kidneys will be fine?
>>>
>>> Do you?
>>
>> Nope! Of course... :)
>>
>> But I believe chances will be higher if I don't go extremely
>> high-protein ;)
>
> I believe that's the silly. The human body is made to subsist on all sorts
> of food. I suppose if by "extremely" high protein you mean 500-1000 g of
> protein then ok, but the average low carb dieter will take in a bit more
> protein

"A bit more protein" is fine for me... :)

Mine was just a word of caution about going very high-protein.


> than is recommended with, in my opinion, no detriment to his kidney
> health. And he'll be a lot happier and stronger from the protein.

I guess it depends on the individual.

Again,
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/conten...&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=nutrition#B59
http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content-nw/full/130/4/886/T1

X'Posted to: alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition
 
"Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:05:38 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
> <news:[email protected]> on
> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>
>> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:52:29 -0500, Joe the Aroma wrote in
>>> <news:[email protected]> on
>>> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>>>
>>>> "Enrico C" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On 24 Feb 2006 10:34:47 -0800, Doug Freyburger wrote in
>>>>> <news:[email protected]> on
>>>>> alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe the Aroma wrote:
>>>>>>> Enrico C wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, the problem with protein is you can't eat lots and lots for
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> long time. Your kidneys might complain...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> No they probably won't, actually.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Probably".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact you can tell someone's level of ignorance about
>>>>>> low carb from it.
>>>>>
>>>>> From what? I said that kidneys "might" complain... Joe said "probably"
>>>>> not. We are speaking of probabilities.
>>>>> Do you know *for sure* your kidneys will be fine?
>>>>
>>>> Do you?
>>>
>>> Nope! Of course... :)
>>>
>>> But I believe chances will be higher if I don't go extremely
>>> high-protein ;)
>>
>> I believe that's the silly. The human body is made to subsist on all
>> sorts
>> of food. I suppose if by "extremely" high protein you mean 500-1000 g of
>> protein then ok, but the average low carb dieter will take in a bit more
>> protein
>
> "A bit more protein" is fine for me... :)
>
> Mine was just a word of caution about going very high-protein.
>
>
>> than is recommended with, in my opinion, no detriment to his kidney
>> health. And he'll be a lot happier and stronger from the protein.
>
> I guess it depends on the individual.
>
> Again,
> http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/conten...&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=nutrition#B59
> http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content-nw/full/130/4/886/T1
>
> X'Posted to: alt.support.diet.low-carb,sci.med.nutrition

Mmmhmmm, ok and there are plenty of studies that show that increasing
protein can help people out with a whole slew of protein. You find one study
and post it like it's the answer to any questions on protein intake. And in
terms of carbohydrate restriction, we know that all the hoopla about kidneys
spontaneously erupting in fire and exploding out of your body are complete
nonsense.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back