ProTour Council rejects Giro half-stages



Andrija

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Now, when council rejected half-stages, what would you like to see? Uphill ITT to Ghisallo or road stage into Milan? As a regular viewer I'd like to see that time trial, I want to see exciting finish. Organizers have said they'll "find another way to honour the mountain and its museum." What could that be?
 

limerickman

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This is the Giro 2006 route.


Stage 1 - May 6: Seraing (Belgium) ITT, 6,2 km
Stage 2 - May 7: Mons - Charleroi/Marcinelle, 203 km
Stage 3 - May 8: Perwez - Namur, 292 km
Stage 4 - May 9: Wanze - Hotton, 182 km
Rest Day - May 10
Stage 5 - May 11: Piacenza - Cremona, TTT, 38 km
Stage 6 - May 12: Busseto - Forlì, 223 km
Stage 7 - May 13: Cesena - Saltara, 230 km
Stage 8 - May 14: Civitanova Marche - Maielletta/Passo Lanciano, 171 km
Stage 9 - May 15: Francavilla al Mare - Termoli, 147 km
Stage 10 - May 16: Termoli - Peschici, 190 km
Rest Day - May 17
Stage 11 - May 18: Pontedera - Pontedera, ITT, 50 km
Stage 12 - May 19: Livorno - Sestri Levante, 165 km
Stage 13 - May 20: Alessandria - La Thuile, 216 km
Stage 14 - May 21: Aosta - Domodossola, 224 km
Stage 15 - May 22: Mergozzo - Brescia, 182 km
Stage 16 - May 23: Rovato - Trento/Monte Bondone, 180 km
Stage 17 - May 24: Termeno - Plan de Corones, 158 km
Stage 18 - May 25: Sillian - Gemona del Friuli, 227 km
Stage 19 - May 26: Pordenone - Passo di San Pellegrino, 220 km
Stage 20 - May 27: Trento - Aprica, 212 km
Stage 21 - May 28: 1st semi-stage: Canzo - Ghisallo, ITT, 11 km
2nd semi-stage: Lecco - Milano, 116 km


Stages 12-21 are very very tough.

I can see how stage 21 (split stage) might be a problem - given the harshness
of the previous 8 stages which is compounded by a killer stage 20 to Ghisallo.
 

whiteboytrash

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there is also the problem of transfers after hard stages..... they force the riders to take the chartered flights..... there is one massive one in next year’s giro which is a 2 hour flight ! Hard work !


limerickman said:
This is the Giro 2006 route.


Stage 1 - May 6: Seraing (Belgium) ITT, 6,2 km
Stage 2 - May 7: Mons - Charleroi/Marcinelle, 203 km
Stage 3 - May 8: Perwez - Namur, 292 km
Stage 4 - May 9: Wanze - Hotton, 182 km
Rest Day - May 10
Stage 5 - May 11: Piacenza - Cremona, TTT, 38 km
Stage 6 - May 12: Busseto - Forlì, 223 km
Stage 7 - May 13: Cesena - Saltara, 230 km
Stage 8 - May 14: Civitanova Marche - Maielletta/Passo Lanciano, 171 km
Stage 9 - May 15: Francavilla al Mare - Termoli, 147 km
Stage 10 - May 16: Termoli - Peschici, 190 km
Rest Day - May 17
Stage 11 - May 18: Pontedera - Pontedera, ITT, 50 km
Stage 12 - May 19: Livorno - Sestri Levante, 165 km
Stage 13 - May 20: Alessandria - La Thuile, 216 km
Stage 14 - May 21: Aosta - Domodossola, 224 km
Stage 15 - May 22: Mergozzo - Brescia, 182 km
Stage 16 - May 23: Rovato - Trento/Monte Bondone, 180 km
Stage 17 - May 24: Termeno - Plan de Corones, 158 km
Stage 18 - May 25: Sillian - Gemona del Friuli, 227 km
Stage 19 - May 26: Pordenone - Passo di San Pellegrino, 220 km
Stage 20 - May 27: Trento - Aprica, 212 km
Stage 21 - May 28: 1st semi-stage: Canzo - Ghisallo, ITT, 11 km
2nd semi-stage: Lecco - Milano, 116 km


Stages 12-21 are very very tough.

I can see how stage 21 (split stage) might be a problem - given the harshness
of the previous 8 stages which is compounded by a killer stage 20 to Ghisallo.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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................and there is no rest during the final 10 days of the 2006 Giro.

The more one looks at it, the more it becomes apparent that the 2006 Giro will
be very tough.
 

Andrija

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It's obvious 2006. Giro will be hard one (hardest in years), but how organizers will solve that problem with ProTour council? They said they'll honor the Ghisallo and I don't think they'll drop final, traditional, road stage into Milan. Maybe, they'll drop TTT and make space for Ghisallo ITT (on penultimate day), or some other stage will be sacrificed in favor of Ghisallo?

 

wolfix

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Not to honor Ghisallo would be wrong for the Giro, especially since they are racing in Belgium for several days. Belgium??? Why??? Wasted race days if you ask me. I know the intent is good but it is the Tour of ITALY. And to have transfers on rest days is wrong. There is suggestions that the race will be a race of survival. But why not? That is what makes the Grand Tours diferent from the Classics. Make it tough, but make it tough because of the competition not because of jet setting all over.

There has been suggestions that if the races were not so long that there would be less doping. I don't think so. Look at track racers.... seems to me that they have a problem with dope as big as roadies. The race directors cannot revolve the race around the dopers. Dopers dope to win , not because the course is tough. To blame the race directors or to attack them is wrong.

In America we had a great race .... The Coors Classic held in the 70's/80/s. Held in the Colorado Rockies. It had the potential to become a race that even Euro's would have loved to race. It was America's one chance to have a race that would have rivaled some of the European races. not the Classics or the Grand tours, but other important races. But then they got this great idea to have it run half way across the country in a TDF style. Of course without the TDF money. They even had stages in Hawaii. Guess what ??? It's history.

I have a feeling the Giro may end up being the most exciting and unpredictable race of the year. The winner, whoever he is, will be a Champion.
 

whiteboytrash

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wolfix said:
In America we had a great race .... The Coors Classic held in the 70's/80/s. Held in the Colorado Rockies. It had the potential to become a race that even Euro's would have loved to race. It was America's one chance to have a race that would have rivaled some of the European races.
Coors Classic ? Didn't Kevin Costner almost win that one year ? beaten by his younger brother was he not ? held off a big challenge from a bearded Russian wearing a gridiron helmet minus the grill.... ?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000399WF/104-2283299-1870331?v=glance&n=130&v=glance
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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wolfix said:
Not to honor Ghisallo would be wrong for the Giro, especially since they are racing in Belgium for several days. Belgium??? Why??? Wasted race days if you ask me. I know the intent is good but it is the Tour of ITALY. And to have transfers on rest days is wrong. There is suggestions that the race will be a race of survival. But why not? That is what makes the Grand Tours diferent from the Classics. Make it tough, but make it tough because of the competition not because of jet setting all over.

There has been suggestions that if the races were not so long that there would be less doping. I don't think so. Look at track racers.... seems to me that they have a problem with dope as big as roadies. The race directors cannot revolve the race around the dopers. Dopers dope to win , not because the course is tough. To blame the race directors or to attack them is wrong.

In America we had a great race .... The Coors Classic held in the 70's/80/s. Held in the Colorado Rockies. It had the potential to become a race that even Euro's would have loved to race. It was America's one chance to have a race that would have rivaled some of the European races. not the Classics or the Grand tours, but other important races. But then they got this great idea to have it run half way across the country in a TDF style. Of course without the TDF money. They even had stages in Hawaii. Guess what ??? It's history.

I have a feeling the Giro may end up being the most exciting and unpredictable race of the year. The winner, whoever he is, will be a Champion.

If I recall correctly, I think Hinault rode the Coor Classic in 1984 - I'm almost sure I am correct in saying that.
(I have a reference book to the 1984 season in my papers and I will confirm this).
But yes, Wolf, the Coors Classic was a very prominent race on the cycling calendar and could have stayed so if they hadn't meddled with the route.
That race came about out of the success of the 7 Eleven team 9 (7/11 held their own on the European circuit too).
It's a pity that it didn't last.
 

azdroptop

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As one who has not had the priviledge to see any Giro coverage. What are the stages like? Hard mountains like the TDF? Or more so? thanks.
 

whiteboytrash

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Yes Hinault rode the race in '84 (or was it '85?) and wore the red jersey for leader of the race.... have a picture of Hinualt, Hampston and Lemond standing together at the start of one of the stages all riding for La'Ve Claire (spelling?)..... cant remember who won overall that year... Alexi Grewell maybe ? from memory they also threw in a 6-pack for the red jersey winner each day as well... ;o)

limerickman said:
If I recall correctly, I think Hinault rode the Coor Classic in 1984 - I'm almost sure I am correct in saying that.
(I have a reference book to the 1984 season in my papers and I will confirm this).
But yes, Wolf, the Coors Classic was a very prominent race on the cycling calendar and could have stayed so if they hadn't meddled with the route.
That race came about out of the success of the 7 Eleven team 9 (7/11 held their own on the European circuit too).
It's a pity that it didn't last.
 

Dead Star

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azdroptop said:
As one who has not had the priviledge to see any Giro coverage. What are the stages like? Hard mountains like the TDF? Or more so? thanks.

you'll often find there are far more steeper and generally harder climbs than at the tdf. The giro doesn't tend to stick to a first week tradition and sticking to flat courses like the tdf as well, so there'll always be a hilly/mountain stage for the GC riders/classic riders like Bettini to shine. In case you weren't aware, RAI usually have live streaming coverage of the giro stages, which can be found on the official website. Keep a look out for it in May.
 

whiteboytrash

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This is not true. The Giro climbs are steeper but not as long.

Dead Star said:
you'll often find there are far more steeper and generally harder climbs than at the tdf. The giro doesn't tend to stick to a first week tradition and sticking to flat courses like the tdf as well, so there'll always be a hilly/mountain stage for the GC riders/classic riders like Bettini to shine. In case you weren't aware, RAI usually have live streaming coverage of the giro stages, which can be found on the official website. Keep a look out for it in May.
 

wolfix

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limerickman said:
If I recall correctly, I think Hinault rode the Coor Classic in 1984 - I'm almost sure I am correct in saying that.
(I have a reference book to the 1984 season in my papers and I will confirm this).
But yes, Wolf, the Coors Classic was a very prominent race on the cycling calendar and could have stayed so if they hadn't meddled with the route.
That race came about out of the success of the 7 Eleven team 9 (7/11 held their own on the European circuit too).
It's a pity that it didn't last.

I have the programs of the 1985 Coors that I attended. Also somewhere around here I have a pic that you would enjoy. I wish I had a scanner to send it to you...
Alan McCorack winning Morgul-Bismarck stage. He rode for Kilians Irish red Ale Team if I remember right. The guy who won it the year before was Chris Carmichael. Morgul-Bismarck was a classsic stage.
Hinault attended in 1985 and I think 1986 too. the Worlds were held not too far away in 1986 ......
My beef with USA cycling bodies and the American cycling fan is this.....
Cycling in America is not a mainstream sport. Yes , I know our history back in the turn of last century. I doubt if cycling will ever become anything but a cult sport. So when we get a race like the Coor's Classic here, why do we always expand it beyond the monetary budget? All that does is cause the collapse of the event. Why not leave good things alone? If the promoters could have spent money on getting a few name studs from Europe to come ride here for a few days, vacation for a few days instead of dropping funds on the cost of a traveling race caravan the results might have been different for the Coors Classic.
Lance Armstrong is the biggest story that will hit professional cycling as far as America is concerned. Whether or not you are a fan , the last 7 years have been media friendly. The cancer, drug allegations , the America vs France, all the above.... But here in America I doubt that we will see any positive fallout except now that the average person on the street knows that the TDF is a real race and not a tour through wine country. Trek, Nike, and Sheryl Crow cd's will sell better, but overall cycling is unchanged.
And the federations will spend more money in an attempt to place another American on the podium in the TDF. Money that should be spent on the grass roots level where the money would go to many, not just a few. Cycling entry fees are very expensive here in the USA. I know some of the reasons are because cost of insurance to promote races , etc, etc.....
Just recently we read where the race in SanFran is having problems. The same old story.
We are not Europe. But we can have a strong grass roots racing.
 

whiteboytrash

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Hinaut did a lot for American cycling in the 80’s… he was very keen to get American’s into his French team and have them racing in Europe… he himself was keen also to race in American and bring a ‘name’ to the event…. You post raises a good point about Armstrong… he is very well know and everybody loves his story but its not strictly about cycling… both his books are more about his life than cycling…. And there lies the problem… cycling at grass roots is still the same in America… more kids maybe buying bikes but are they getting into the races and are the races getting bigger….? I saw the same thing in Australia when I was riding and Phil Anderson was a big name… the road racing in Australia just wasn’t bigger enough and Europe just seemed so far away so most gave up as there was no money in the sport in our home country… I suspect much the same in America…. if you're not going to make it to Europe then cyclists can't exspect to make a living on cycling wages outside of Europe... even most European cyclist struggle get by on their salaries.....

wolfix said:
I have the programs of the 1985 Coors that I attended. Also somewhere around here I have a pic that you would enjoy. I wish I had a scanner to send it to you...
Alan McCorack winning Morgul-Bismarck stage. He rode for Kilians Irish red Ale Team if I remember right. The guy who won it the year before was Chris Carmichael. Morgul-Bismarck was a classsic stage.
Hinault attended in 1985 and I think 1986 too. the Worlds were held not too far away in 1986 ......
My beef with USA cycling bodies and the American cycling fan is this.....
Cycling in America is not a mainstream sport. Yes , I know our history back in the turn of last century. I doubt if cycling will ever become anything but a cult sport. So when we get a race like the Coor's Classic here, why do we always expand it beyond the monetary budget? All that does is cause the collapse of the event. Why not leave good things alone? If the promoters could have spent money on getting a few name studs from Europe to come ride here for a few days, vacation for a few days instead of dropping funds on the cost of a traveling race caravan the results might have been different for the Coors Classic.
Lance Armstrong is the biggest story that will hit professional cycling as far as America is concerned. Whether or not you are a fan , the last 7 years have been media friendly. The cancer, drug allegations , the America vs France, all the above.... But here in America I doubt that we will see any positive fallout except now that the average person on the street knows that the TDF is a real race and not a tour through wine country. Trek, Nike, and Sheryl Crow cd's will sell better, but overall cycling is unchanged.
And the federations will spend more money in an attempt to place another American on the podium in the TDF. Money that should be spent on the grass roots level where the money would go to many, not just a few. Cycling entry fees are very expensive here in the USA. I know some of the reasons are because cost of insurance to promote races , etc, etc.....
Just recently we read where the race in SanFran is having problems. The same old story.
We are not Europe. But we can have a strong grass roots racing.
 

azdroptop

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May 25, 2005
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Dead Star said:
you'll often find there are far more steeper and generally harder climbs than at the tdf. The giro doesn't tend to stick to a first week tradition and sticking to flat courses like the tdf as well, so there'll always be a hilly/mountain stage for the GC riders/classic riders like Bettini to shine. In case you weren't aware, RAI usually have live streaming coverage of the giro stages, which can be found on the official website. Keep a look out for it in May.
Thanks!! Very appreciated.:)
 

wolfix

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whiteboytrash said:
Hinaut did a lot for American cycling in the 80’s… he was very keen to get American’s into his French team and have them racing in Europe… he himself was keen also to race in American and bring a ‘name’ to the event…. You post raises a good point about Armstrong… he is very well know and everybody loves his story but its not strictly about cycling… both his books are more about his life than cycling…. And there lies the problem… cycling at grass roots is still the same in America… more kids maybe buying bikes but are they getting into the races and are the races getting bigger….? I saw the same thing in Australia when I was riding and Phil Anderson was a big name… the road racing in Australia just wasn’t bigger enough and Europe just seemed so far away so most gave up as there was no money in the sport in our home country… I suspect much the same in America…. if you're not going to make it to Europe then cyclists can't exspect to make a living on cycling wages outside of Europe... even most European cyclist struggle get by on their salaries.....
Exactly .... And for the average Joe, cycling could be a great sport to participate in. The Masters here in the states are a very large group. They tend to be serious riders but enjoy every race.
Back before Lemond......And I am a Lemond fan, but the articles in Velonews was all about Americans on American soil. As an American I felt connected. The Euro scene was interesting but I knew I would not be able to follow a particular rider and see him in person on a regular basis. But I could Americans......
I remember when the attitude switched to "If we want riders to get better, then we have to send them to Europe." Get better? For who? European fans? The boys across the pond have it good enough watching Mercxk, Knetemann, Hinault, and the likes...An American is not going to make it any better.
That's when the sport started getting exspensive and even the local riders had to follow the UCI rules. The federations started pushing large road races.... It was the crits that were attracting people. I've seen Hinault, Armstrong , and Lemond in road races-------> BORING !!!!!!!!
The federation was all about world wide prestige. They forgot the fans.
And now in my area, we have half as many USCF races as we did in the 70's. They claim it is because of the lack of riders..... Maybe they need to look at themselves. A solution would be to not take ex-bike riders in as board members and such. Unless qualified.