public school bikes

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Adelantado, Jan 26, 2003.

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  1. Adelantado

    Adelantado Guest

    Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
    be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
    school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

    The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school as
    well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.
     
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  2. Nyrides

    Nyrides Guest

    My home is in a fairly quiet, suburban neighborhood, within a 3-minute walk to the local elementary
    school. When my kids were growing up here, they walked or rode their bikes to school every day. Now,
    the school district has made it "illegal" for kids to get to school, no matter how close they live,
    on foot or by bike. Instead, they all line up at the corner each morning, with the school virtually
    in sight, waiting for a huge bus to take them across the street.

    If a child shows up on foot or on a bicycle, his/her parents are called immediately.

    Honestly, I can understand why it has to be this way. This neighborhood is now loaded with SUVs,
    carelessly guided by hassled Moms with their cell phones glued to their ears. There's a major
    accident waiting to happen, even with the kids taking the bus to school. I just can't imagine the
    chaos if you added kids on bikes or on foot to the morning mix in our town.

    I applaud your idea, but I can't see it working...at least not here in suburban New York.

    Low-Impact Rides in the NY/LI region www.geocities.com/NYRides "Adelantado" <[email protected]>
    wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
    > be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
    > school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.
    >
    > The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
    > as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.
     
  3. Golightly F.

    Golightly F. Guest

    You could find a bike cage big enough or strong enough to keep all the bikes from being stolen. Bike
    security is a big issue... and kids security is a very big issue.

    I wouldn't work in most cities.

    hth

    "Adelantado" <[email protected]>
    > Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
    > be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
    > school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>, NYRides
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >My home is in a fairly quiet, suburban neighborhood, within a 3-minute walk to the local elementary
    >school. When my kids were growing up here, they walked or rode their bikes to school every day.
    >Now, the school district has made it "illegal" for kids to get to school, no matter how close they
    >live, on foot or by bike. Instead, they all line up at the corner each morning, with the school
    >virtually in sight, waiting for a huge bus to take them across the street.
    >
    >If a child shows up on foot or on a bicycle, his/her parents are called immediately.
    >
    >Honestly, I can understand why it has to be this way. This neighborhood is now loaded with SUVs,
    >carelessly guided by hassled Moms with their cell phones glued to their ears. There's a major
    >accident waiting to happen, even with the kids taking the bus to school. I just can't imagine the
    >chaos if you added kids on bikes or on foot to the morning mix in our town.

    Sounds like the kids weren't the ones that were added to the mix!

    What a sad story.--Bruce F.
     
  5. Pete Hickey

    Pete Hickey Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Adelantado
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
    >be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
    >school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

    Boy, the lawyers would love you. They would sue you for each fall, for dirty pants, for fingers
    caught in spokes, for the frostbiet in the winter, for the out-of-shape students being humiliated
    because they can't ride well...

    -Pete
    --
    --
    LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot taste the difference between
    fried dog and fried cat?
     
  6. "Golightly F." wrote:

    > You could find a bike cage big enough or strong enough to keep all the bikes from being stolen.
    > Bike security is a big issue... and kids security is a very big issue.
    >
    > I wouldn't work in most cities.
    >
    > hth

    I used to ride to school from about year 4. Both of my schools had large locked bike parking with
    room for about 100 bikes. This was only...shit...14 years ago. Damn I am getting old. I never had
    any trouble with cars or pedestrians this was in a country town of about 18,000 people.
    --
    Cheers Damian Harvey

    Goths: If I looked like that I'd be depressed too.
     
  7. Karen M.

    Karen M. Guest

    Adelantado wrote: ...
    > The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
    > as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

    Since most school teachers and administrators work for local school districts, national security
    hardly obtains. Standard excuses apply: too far, too early, mess up good clothes, scared of
    traffic. --Karen M. who knows of a school with more than a couple teachers with 50-mile commutes
     
  8. [email protected] (Adelantado) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
    > be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
    > school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.
    >
    > The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
    > as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

    Where do you live ? I don't feel safe walking around by myself. I certainly wouldn't send my
    child out alone.

    Too many violent criminals and sexual predators waiting for prey. Especially near schools.

    There have even been recent cases of attacks inside school buildings.

    And I live in a "good are," in a city which used to be noted for its safety. :-(
     
  9. Nyrides

    Nyrides Guest

    Funny you mention "national security." That term has made a really convenient excuse for almost
    anyone to throw out for almost any reason.

    There's a bike path extension project that will be passing through my town in the next year. I'm
    working very hard with the DOT to plan a spur that will make the path a lot safer for the local
    kids. It involves passing through some abandoned state property that happens to run alongside a
    water district facility.

    A few months ago, I spent about an hour and a half wandering around the grounds of this facility
    taking photos and looking for someone to talk to. Not a sole was in site and I was able to wander
    freely with my camera. Recently, when the DOT sent its proposal to the water district to use this
    right-of-way for the bike path spur, the water district's lawyer sent back an emphatic "NO," with
    the excuse that a bike path through the property would pose a "security risk."

    Now it looks as if our kids will have to ride their bikes along a very busy roadway just to be able
    to access this path. Well, at least none of those eight year olds will be able to compromise our
    water supply now.
    --
    Low-Impact Rides in the NY/LI region www.geocities.com/NYRides "Karen M." <[email protected]>
    wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Adelantado wrote: ...
    > > The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to
    > > school as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking
    > > to/from work.
    >
    > Since most school teachers and administrators work for local school districts, national
    > security hardly obtains. Standard excuses apply: too far, too early, mess up good clothes,
    > scared of traffic. --Karen M. who knows of a school with more than a couple teachers with
    > 50-mile commutes
     
  10. Damian Harvey <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I used to ride to school from about year 4. Both of my schools had large locked bike parking with
    > room for about 100 bikes. This was only...shit...14 years ago. Damn I am getting old. I never had
    > any trouble with cars or pedestrians this was in a country town of about 18,000 people.

    Oz might not be like the rest of the planet. If there are regularly cyclists on the road, then cars
    tend to know how to react. As the thread is (presumably) about the USA, there are very few cyclists
    on the road in most communities.

    In Northern Virginia, cars would react to me on the road as if I were from Mars. They didn't know
    what to do--whether to pass, how to react to a hand signal, how the sequence of yields went, etc.
    Looking out my window, I'd be surprised if I saw a dozen cyclists a week.

    In Central London, there are a lot more cyclists. Even though the volume of vehicular traffic is
    much higher, I don't find riding here any worse than in Virginia. It's made significantly easier by
    the fact that cars seem to know I'm there, and know how to react to me. Best marks in this respect
    go to people who drive for a living--black cabs, buses, and even White Van Men.

    As to solutions to break this vicious cycle--lack of cyclists, motorist ignorance, potential cyclist
    intimidation, lack of cyclists--I can only suggest more and more visible police traffic enforcement,
    especially near schools.

    -Luigi
     
  11. Adelantado wrote:
    > Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
    > be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
    > school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.

    1) Not all children know how to ride a bicycle nor can ride a bicycle. SO you still need the buses.

    2) Parents would never go for this.

    3) A lot of kids already have bikes and very few of them today use them to go to school.

    4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from school.
    The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a lot of
    school districts.

    5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of US
    999 at one time?

    6) Even though the odds of this are very rare, people are a lot more concerned these days about
    perverts, terrorist and such going after their kids.

    When I went to school in the 70s, a lot of kids rode their bikes including me on my banana seat. I
    have no problem with children whose parents allow them to ride bikes to school, in fact I wish more
    parents would do it today. Today, the bike racks sit empty at a lot of schools. When my Dad went to
    school, they walked the 3 miles each way to go to school. How things have changed!!!

    >
    > The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
    > as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.

    No one is stopping them at all from biking to work, almost all of them have the legal right to do
    this. Forcing bicycling on people isn't going to do a thing except create a more hostile environment
    for other bicyclist.
     
  12. Paul Ilgen

    Paul Ilgen Guest

    give kids bikes? you kidding? kids have bikes but aren't allowed to ride them.

    I live 2 blocks from a school and they don't even have a bike rack.

    My son started at the school this year and when I mentioned to the teacher that he wanted to ride
    his bike, the teacher responded with, "oh we can't allow that". Like I was bad parent for
    suggesting it.

    "Adelantado" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Instead of busing kids to school, paying bus drivers, paying gas and buying school buses, it would
    > be better in terms of children's health and less costly to school districts to give each and every
    > school age child his or her own bicycle to use to go to school and home.
    >
    > The real question is whether the teachers and school administrators are willing to bike to school
    > as well or will they oppose the idea claiming national security just to avoid biking to/from work.
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>, SC Hiker Biker <[email protected]> wrote:
    >2) Parents would never go for this.

    There are still some that do (I know some around here, and certainly my dad encouraged me to do so
    when I was a kid, and I'm glad he did). Given some motivation and education, I think a lot more
    parents would encourage it.

    >4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from school.
    > The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a lot of
    > school districts.

    Do you have any evidence of this? What would be the legal rationale for such a suit? Do you have any
    examples of such suits?

    >5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of US
    > 999 at one time?

    Definitely! What's the problem? If they're replacing 300 cars on US 999, then they're probably using
    *less* road capacity. (Bicyclists' lower maximum speed is compensated for by their smaller footprint
    on the road, and the only studies of this question that I've seen say that the net effect is an
    increase of throughput given the same width of pavement.) If US 999 has more than 1 lane in each
    direction (or shareably wide lanes), then the remaining cars may actually end up going faster due to
    reduced congestion.

    >6) Even though the odds of this are very rare, people are a lot more concerned these days about
    > perverts, terrorist and such going after their kids.

    You'd think this could be countered to some degree by education. The odds are, as you say, very
    small; I find it hard to imagine the risk of a kid being abducted while walking to school is as
    great as the increased risk of injury cased by additional motor traffic around schools at pick-up
    and drop-off time.

    --Bruce F.
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, Paul Ilgen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >give kids bikes? you kidding? kids have bikes but aren't allowed to ride them.
    >
    >I live 2 blocks from a school and they don't even have a bike rack.
    >
    >My son started at the school this year and when I mentioned to the teacher that he wanted to ride
    >his bike, the teacher responded with, "oh we can't allow that". Like I was bad parent for
    >suggesting it.

    Have you set up a meeting with the teacher or the principal to discuss this policy? (If, indeed,
    it is a policy; a significant percentage of all rules seem to be made up on the spot for no
    particular reason.)

    --Bruce F.
     
  15. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    [email protected] (mark freedman) wrote:

    > Where do you live ? I don't feel safe walking around by myself. I certainly wouldn't send my
    > child out alone.
    >
    > Too many violent criminals and sexual predators waiting for prey. Especially near schools.
    >
    > There have even been recent cases of attacks inside school buildings.
    >
    > And I live in a "good area," in a city which used to be noted for its safety. :-(

    ...an area now unfortunately plagued by rampant irrational (and statistically
    indefensible) paranoia.

    Chalo Colina not dependent on the 6 o'clock report for my version of reality
     
  16. Paul Ilgen

    Paul Ilgen Guest

    don't blame the Mom's - what a cop out

    blame the mindless one size fits all school boards and the asshole teachers unions

    "J. Bruce Fields" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, NYRides
    > <[email protected]t> wrote:
    > >My home is in a fairly quiet, suburban neighborhood, within a 3-minute
    walk
    > >to the local elementary school. When my kids were growing up here, they walked or rode their
    > >bikes to school every day. Now, the school district has made it "illegal" for kids to get to
    > >school, no matter how close they live, on foot or by bike. Instead, they all line up at the
    > >corner each morning, with the school virtually in sight, waiting for a huge bus to
    take
    > >them across the street.
    > >
    > >If a child shows up on foot or on a bicycle, his/her parents are called immediately.
    > >
    > >Honestly, I can understand why it has to be this way. This neighborhood
    is
    > >now loaded with SUVs, carelessly guided by hassled Moms with their cell phones glued to their
    > >ears. There's a major accident waiting to happen, even with the kids taking the bus to school. I
    > >just can't imagine the
    chaos
    > >if you added kids on bikes or on foot to the morning mix in our town.
    >
    > Sounds like the kids weren't the ones that were added to the mix!
    >
    > What a sad story.--Bruce F.
     
  17. J. Bruce Fields wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, SC Hiker Biker
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>2) Parents would never go for this.
    >
    >
    > There are still some that do (I know some around here, and certainly my dad encouraged me to do so
    > when I was a kid, and I'm glad he did). Given some motivation and education, I think a lot more
    > parents would encourage it.

    How do you propose "educating" parents? Mandatory classes? Come on.....

    >
    >
    >>4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from school.
    >> The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a lot of
    >> school districts.
    >
    >
    > Do you have any evidence of this? What would be the legal rationale for such a suit? Do you have
    > any examples of such suits?

    Do you have any examples of where a school district gave each child a bicycle to ride to school each
    day? Come on.... we all know the first accident that would occur on a bike purchased by the school
    would get the school district sued. If you can't see this line of logic, well....

    >
    >
    >>5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of US
    >> 999 at one time?
    >
    >
    > Definitely! What's the problem? If they're replacing 300 cars on US 999, then they're probably
    > using *less* road capacity.

    So you have no problem with 7 year olds riding the side of a major highway.......
    >
    >>6) Even though the odds of this are very rare, people are a lot more concerned these days about
    >> perverts, terrorist and such going after their kids.
    >
    >
    > You'd think this could be countered to some degree by education.

    Education of adults ... ah yes, and you would force education on adults, that is twice you have
    claimed adult education is the answer. Of course, we all know you mean indoctrination
     
  18. Richard

    Richard Guest

    On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:10:55 GMT, "Paul Ilgen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >don't blame the Mom's - what a cop out
    >
    >blame the mindless one size fits all school boards and the asshole teachers unions
    >
    As a teacher, I resemble that remark!
     
  19. In article <[email protected]>, Paul Ilgen <[email protected]> wrote:
    >blame the mindless one size fits all school boards and the asshole teachers unions

    Care to explain why?

    --Bruce F.
     
  20. In article <[email protected]>, SC Hiker Biker <sch[email protected]> wrote:
    >J. Bruce Fields wrote:
    >>>4) The school district gets sued the first accident that happens to a child riding to/from
    >>> school. The legal cost alone blocks this idea. Just one multi-million lawsuit will bankrupt a
    >>> lot of school districts.
    >>
    >> Do you have any evidence of this? What would be the legal rationale for such a suit? Do you have
    >> any examples of such suits?
    >
    >Do you have any examples of where a school district gave each child a bicycle to ride to school
    >each day? Come on.... we all know the first accident that would occur on a bike purchased by the
    >school would get the school district sued. If you can't see this line of logic, well....

    I don't see it. Can you answer the questions I asked above?

    Schools still manage to sponsor atheletic programs that are not entirely risk-free. It's simply not
    true that anyone can easily sue anyone for anything and recoup massive damages.

    >>>5) If the school is accessible only via busy streets do you want 300 kids riding on the side of
    >>> US 999 at one time?
    >>
    >> Definitely! What's the problem? If they're replacing 300 cars on US 999, then they're probably
    >> using *less* road capacity.
    >
    >So you have no problem with 7 year olds riding the side of a major highway.......

    So "route 999" is a major highway now and the kids in question are 7 years old? I think it takes
    a few more years before kids have the skills to handle complicated traffic situations, but it's
    the complexity of the traffic that matters (e.g., what sort of intersections do they have to
    handle? Do they have to make left turns?), more than the size of the highway. Certainly I rode on
    streets to get to school (not on major highways), along a fairly simple, low-traffic route, when
    I was 10 or 11.

    >> You'd think this could be countered to some degree by education.
    >
    >Education of adults ... ah yes, and you would force education on adults, that is twice you have
    >claimed adult education is the answer. Of course, we all know you mean indoctrination

    Where did I propose mandatory education?

    --Bruce Fields
     
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