Pulling Spokes on The Inside or Outside?

[* * Chas]

"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >> * * Chas wrote:
> >>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
> >>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
> >> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
> >> was first published in 1981.
>
> > "John Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
> >> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
> >> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
> >> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
> >> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
> >> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
> >> faces" (p13).
>
> * * Chas wrote:
> > Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by
an
> > engineer that I worked for at the time.
>
>
> This has been hashed out many times. There are favorable features either
> way but no compelling reason to go in or out. We each build as we are
> accustomed and it makes no practical difference.
>
> --
> Andrew Muzi

This is a timely topic for me as I've been building some wheels lately and
I was wondering what the current opinion was. I was taught that putting
the pulling spokes on the inside protected them from chain damage.

Chas.

 

[A Muzi]

>>>> * * Chas wrote:
>>>>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
>>>>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
>>>> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
>>>> was first published in 1981.

>>> "John Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
>>>> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
>>>> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
>>>> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
>>>> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
>>>> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
>>>> faces" (p13).

>> * * Chas wrote:
>>> Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by
>>> an engineer that I worked for at the time.

> "A Muzi" <[email protected]> blathered
>> This has been hashed out many times. There are favorable features either
>> way but no compelling reason to go in or out. We each build as we are
>> accustomed and it makes no practical difference.

* * Chas wrote:
> This is a timely topic for me as I've been building some wheels lately and
> I was wondering what the current opinion was. I was taught that putting
> the pulling spokes on the inside protected them from chain damage.

I also build with inside 'pulling' but I don't feel strongly about the
inverse. Either way works.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[richard]

Although I agree with your statement on JB's "tone", he did in fact
answer the question - it makes no difference.

jim beam wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Andy Froncioni writes:
>>
>>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>>> - PT SL hub
>>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>>> - 24-spoke
>>> - 2-cross
>>
>>
>>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>>
>>
>>> Ready? Go!
>>
>>
>> Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
>> arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
>> something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
>> question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
>> no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
>> way or the other, but that's about all.
>>
>> Jobst Brandt
>
>
> rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal arrival
> on this earth, and then ***** about the op's impertinence in asking a
> question you don't condescend to answer in your great, irrefutable and
> in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't you answer the man's
> question? it's not hard.

 

[jim beam]

richard wrote:
> Although I agree with your statement on JB's "tone", he did in fact
> answer the question - it makes no difference.

but he doesn't say /why/!!! that would invite scrutiny of the great and
infallible however, so of course, it must be avoided.


>
> jim beam wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Froncioni writes:
>>>
>>>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>>>> - PT SL hub
>>>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>>>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>>>> - 24-spoke
>>>> - 2-cross
>>>
>>>
>>>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ready? Go!
>>>
>>>
>>> Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
>>> arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
>>> something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
>>> question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
>>> no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
>>> way or the other, but that's about all.
>>>
>>> Jobst Brandt
>>
>>
>> rather than claim credit for something that predates your mortal
>> arrival on this earth, and then ***** about the op's impertinence in
>> asking a question you don't condescend to answer in your great,
>> irrefutable and in all respects correct and perfect book, why don't
>> you answer the man's question? it's not hard.

 

[Brian Huntley]

On Jul 23, 3:32 pm, Zog The Undeniable <[email protected]> wrote:
> Andy Froncioni wrote:
> > I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> > - PT SL hub
> > - DT Aerolite spokes
> > - Reynolds Solitude rim
> > - 24-spoke
> > - 2-cross
>
> > The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>
> > Ready? Go!
>
> Inboard on a freewheel, outboard on a fixie, to reduce the (already
> small) risk of chain jamming.

So - asymmetric on a flip-flop fixed/free?

 

[jim beam]

Brian Huntley wrote:
> On Jul 23, 3:32 pm, Zog The Undeniable <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Andy Froncioni wrote:
>>> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
>>> - PT SL hub
>>> - DT Aerolite spokes
>>> - Reynolds Solitude rim
>>> - 24-spoke
>>> - 2-cross
>>> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?
>>> Ready? Go!
>> Inboard on a freewheel, outboard on a fixie, to reduce the (already
>> small) risk of chain jamming.
>
> So - asymmetric on a flip-flop fixed/free?
>

if you download the pdf for shimano mtb disk brake rear hubs, you'll see
that's what they recommend for that similar stress arrangement.

 

[daveornee]

Andy Froncioni writes:

> I'm building a rear wheel very soon. Here are the specs:
> - PT SL hub
> - DT Aerolite spokes
> - Reynolds Solitude rim
> - 24-spoke
> - 2-cross

> The big question: Should the pulling spokes be inboard or outboard?

> Ready? Go!

Where did you get the term "pulling spokes"? As I recall, that term
arose in "the Bicycle Wheel" and that suggests you may have read
something in that book. If so, you might read the answer to your
question there, but don't hold your breath. This is trivia and makes
no functional difference. The book gives an excuse for doing it one
way or the other, but that's about all.

Jobst Brandt

So what happens if all the drive side spokes have heads in and all the non-drive spokes have heads out?
Would there be better spokes tension balance? and if so, what would be the disadvantage(s)?

 

[Larry Dickman]

In article <[email protected]>,
jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:

> * * Chas wrote:
> > "John Henderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> * * Chas wrote:
> >>
> >>> I remember the term "pulling spokes" at least back to the
> >>> early 1970s when someone was teaching me how to build wheels.
> >> Yes, a google search suggests that Jobst's "the Bicycle Wheel"
> >> was first published in 1981.
> >>
> >> Likewise I remember the term "pulling spokes" from before that.
> >> I've found one of my old books, "Building Bicycle Wheels" by
> >> Robert Wright, published in 1977. While I would no longer
> >> recommend this book to anyone, the author does use the term, eg
> >> "I believe it's best to build rear wheels symmetrically, with
> >> all the pulling spokes leaving the flanges from the outside
> >> faces" (p13).
> >>
> >> John
> >
> > Funny, I was always told to have the pulling spokes on the inside - by an
> > engineer that I worked for at the time.
> >
> > Chas.
> >
> >
>
> fwiw, my mavic cosmos rears are outside pulling.
>
> the rationale the traditional config is that under normal radial
> loading, the closer the pulling spokes are to the wheel's center plane,
> the lower the geometric tension rise. hence you lace for the inside.
>
> the debate comes in when you consider lateral loading as well - it would
> be a matter of whether the tension rise due to lateral loading was
> comparable to tension increase created by "pulling".

I always build with inside pulling. I've had the derailleur twang the
spokes in low gear when I used a wheel with outside pulling spokes.