Q: Beef doneness temp?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Andy, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. Andy

    Andy Guest

    Does every cut of beef cook to rare, medium-rare, etc., at the same
    internal temp, not counting cooking time or cut thickness? In other words,
    would a 1 inch thick NY Strip and a 3/4" flank steak and a 1" thick
    hamburger (certified non-ecoli?) all be medium-rare at 145 degrees internal
    temp?

    Andy
     
    Tags:


  2. Sheldon

    Sheldon Guest

    Andy wrote:
    > Does every cut of beef cook to rare, medium-rare, etc., at the same
    > internal temp,


    Yes... temperature is absolute.

    >not counting cooking time or cut thickness?


    These are variables which have nothing to do with your question as
    posed above.

    > would a 1 inch thick NY Strip and a 3/4" flank steak and a 1" thick
    > hamburger (certified non-ecoli?) all be medium-rare at 145 degrees internal
    > temp?


    Apples and oranges... preground meat must be fully cooked to 160ºF.
    Meat you grind yourself that is cooked immediately after grinding may
    be cooked rare, in fact may be eaten raw. Buying preground raw meat
    should be a misdemeaner... selling preground raw meat should be a
    felony... dealing in burgers should be a capital crime.... exhibiting
    The Clown is child molestation, Ronald deserves lethal injection. I
    honestly see no difference between Ronald McDonald and The Marlboro
    Man.

    Sheldon
     
  3. Andy wrote:
    > Does every cut of beef cook to rare, medium-rare, etc., at the same
    > internal temp, not counting cooking time or cut thickness? In other words,
    > would a 1 inch thick NY Strip and a 3/4" flank steak and a 1" thick
    > hamburger (certified non-ecoli?) all be medium-rare at 145 degrees internal
    > temp?
    >
    > Andy


    AFAIK, yes.

    --

    saerah

    http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

    email:
    anisaerah at s b c global.net

    "Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
    disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
    -Baruch Spinoza

    "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
    what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
    and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
    is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -Douglas Adams
     
  4. Food Snob

    Food Snob Guest

    Sheldon wrote:
    > Andy wrote:
    > > Does every cut of beef cook to rare, medium-rare, etc., at the same
    > > internal temp,

    >
    > Yes... temperature is absolute.
    >
    > >not counting cooking time or cut thickness?

    >
    > These are variables which have nothing to do with your question as
    > posed above.
    >
    > > would a 1 inch thick NY Strip and a 3/4" flank steak and a 1" thick
    > > hamburger (certified non-ecoli?) all be medium-rare at 145 degrees internal
    > > temp?

    >
    > Apples and oranges... preground meat must be fully cooked to 160ºF.
    > Meat you grind yourself that is cooked immediately after grinding may
    > be cooked rare, in fact may be eaten raw. Buying preground raw meat
    > should be a misdemeaner... selling preground raw meat should be a
    > felony... dealing in burgers should be a capital crime.... exhibiting
    > The Clown is child molestation, Ronald deserves lethal injection. I
    > honestly see no difference between Ronald McDonald and The Marlboro
    > Man.


    The same applies to every corporation that still purveys trans-fats.
    You know, I have been eating raw beef for most of my life. I guess
    maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never gotten sick from it. I've even
    eaten grocery store ground beef raw zillions of times. I certainly
    wouldn't recommend it to others, but I really do do it with no
    noticable ill effects.
    >
    > Sheldon


    --Bryan
     
  5. Andy

    Andy Guest

    "Food Snob" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1141141058.246615.65310
    @z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

    > The same applies to every corporation that still purveys trans-fats.
    > You know, I have been eating raw beef for most of my life. I guess
    > maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never gotten sick from it. I've even
    > eaten grocery store ground beef raw zillions of times. I certainly
    > wouldn't recommend it to others, but I really do do it with no
    > noticable ill effects.



    I remember eating raw store-ground hamburger as a kid and it actually had
    flavor!

    Andy
     
  6. Andy wrote:

    > Does every cut of beef cook to rare, medium-rare, etc., at the same
    > internal temp, not counting cooking time or cut thickness? In other words,
    > would a 1 inch thick NY Strip and a 3/4" flank steak and a 1" thick
    > hamburger (certified non-ecoli?) all be medium-rare at 145 degrees internal
    > temp?


    The doneness-temperatures remain constant. Except that 145° is medium.

    110-115 - Pittsburgh rare or "bleu" in French-speaking places. Cold, red
    interior, thin line of searing on all sides.
    120-125 - rare - cold red center.
    130-135 - med-rare - warm red center.
    140-145 - med - warm pink center.
    155-160 - med-well - hot pink center as a narrow line.
    170+ - well - hot, brown throughout, up to and including charred and
    crusted surfaces.

    Forget what the meat thermometers say. If you let meats cook to the
    temps they say, but the time the rest is over, it probably has moved
    into the next doneness level hotter.

    Anything over 145° will have killed most any parasites and bacteria.
    Game and all ground meats should be cooked to at least that.

    Pastorio
     
  7. pgluth1

    pgluth1 Guest

    > Anything over 145° will have killed most any parasites and bacteria.
    > Game and all ground meats should be cooked to at least that.


    I agree with all the information about cooking times and the hazards of
    undercooked meat, however, I still indulge in various forms of ceviche. I
    would argue that safe food handling procedures and proper and prompt
    storage of meat is more important than temp.

    In other words, I still get the shivers when I think of my grandmother
    defrosting meat on the counter all day, but only occasionally worry about
    my very rare hamburgers.
     
  8. pgluth1 wrote:

    >>Anything over 145° will have killed most any parasites and bacteria.
    >>Game and all ground meats should be cooked to at least that.

    >
    > I agree with all the information about cooking times and the hazards of
    > undercooked meat, however, I still indulge in various forms of ceviche.


    The low pH of lime juice or vinegar is bactericidal. It's why pickled
    things work safely and vinegar is used as a sanitizer.

    > I
    > would argue that safe food handling procedures and proper and prompt
    > storage of meat is more important than temp.


    Well, no. "...safe food handling procedures and proper and prompt
    storage of meat" don't kill trichinae in game meats. They don't kill
    salmonella. E. coli just love that kind of thinking. As do all the other
    undesirable critters that populate meats.

    The meat comes with pathogens and spoilage bacteria already built onto
    the surfaces. Handling and storage keeps their numbers from increasing
    at geometric rates. "...safe food handling procedures" must include
    slaughter, cleaning the carcass, breaking the carcass down, butchering,
    cutting and packaging for retail sale, transporting through all those
    steps and then to the home for storage and handling thereafter. You
    can't count on everyone in the chain doing what's best for you. The odds
    aren't good.

    "Proper storage of meat" is based on appropriate temperatures to
    minimize growth of both pathogens and spoilage bacteria. It doesn't stop
    it and it doesn't eliminate it.

    > In other words, I still get the shivers when I think of my grandmother
    > defrosting meat on the counter all day, but only occasionally worry about
    > my very rare hamburgers.


    Apologies here. But your criteria are based on flawed information. Here
    are two papers from a food science organization whose work has proven to
    be solid.

    1) THAWING AT AMBIENT TEMPERATURE ON THE COUNTER
    "In summary, the research study by Jiménez et al. (1999) supports the
    previous study by Klose et al. (1968). The USDA is correct to allow raw
    meat, fish, and poultry to thaw at room temperature. There is no risk
    in thawing these products at room temperature."
    <http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Thaw-counter.html>

    2) WHICH HAMBURGER IS SAFE?
    "The USDA still has a long way to go, because we do not need to cook to
    160F. The reference it uses for 100,000-to-1 Salmonella kill also
    points out that 15 seconds at 155F or 52 seconds at 150F or 2.7 minutes
    at 145F will all give the same kill [Goodfellow, S.J. and Brown, W.L.
    1978. Fate of Salmonella inoculated into beef for cooking. J. Food
    Protect. 41(8):598-605]. Of course, the hamburger is even more red at
    these lower temperatures."
    <http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents2000/Pinkburger.html>

    But it's not rare. The lowest temp above is medium and it needs to stay
    at that temp for nearly 3 minutes for a 100K-1 kill.

    Store-bought ground beef isn't safe to eat raw or rare because it
    becomes virtually all surface. Bacterial contamination is almost always
    a surface phenomenon, and the more surface there is, the greater is the
    likelihood of bacterial presence, and the greater is the likelihood of
    large numbers.

    Pastorio
     
  9. pgluth1

    pgluth1 Guest

    Enlightening, thank you for the polite response.

    We may be comparing apples and oranges to some extent - countertop thawing
    can be used, but my grandmother had the chicken out a LOT longer than it
    took to just thaw.

    Moreover, I am not arguing the severity of undercooked meat illness, only
    that I was taught in restaurants that it is much less common form of hazard
    than is poor handling.

    Again, thanks for keeping the discourse positive. Now I am just curious.
     
  10. pgluth1 wrote:
    > Enlightening, thank you for the polite response.
    >
    > We may be comparing apples and oranges to some extent - countertop thawing
    > can be used, but my grandmother had the chicken out a LOT longer than it
    > took to just thaw.


    Understood. Also remember that grandma cooked chicken until the leg bone
    moved freely. At least 180°F. That effectively sterilizes the bird. Also
    very likely that grandma's bird wasn't as contaminated as today's.

    > Moreover, I am not arguing the severity of undercooked meat illness, only
    > that I was taught in restaurants that it is much less common form of hazard
    > than is poor handling.


    And it seems to be true. But both need to be considered. Does it really
    matter, intellectually, which one is causing you to throw up yesterday's
    lunch, today's and part of tomorrow's?

    > Again, thanks for keeping the discourse positive. Now I am just curious.


    Be careful about your info sources. There's a lot of hysterical terror
    about the table masquerading as "information."

    Pastorio
     
Loading...