Question about painting my bike



diddlydoo

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Dec 2, 2013
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Hi,

I'm in the middle of painting a bike. I had gone to the auto shop to get the spray paint. I thought 1 can would do the trick but it didn't. Now I need to go get another can.

As it turned out I didn't like the color. I'm repainting my mom's bike and wanted the pink. The color came out too rose/purple looking.

Since I'm having to buy another can, can I get this can of paint more pinker and deeper perhaps or will I have to stick to the same color of pink? The guy at the auto place had to mix the paint using different colors to get the pink color and put in an aerosol can. I took in a swatch. I tried not to have any purple or rose in my pink, but after putting on the bike it did come out purple pinkish.

Also, this is my first time painting so is it okay that the bike will take the 2nd coat the next day? I brought it inside so the humidity wouldn't get to it. I was hoping to get it all done in one day but didn't turn out like that.

Yes, I primed it and prepped it. Paint went on good but just ran out of paint.

So is it ok that it is drying overnight and that the 2nd coat is going on tomorrow?

Can I make the 2nd coat a different color pink or do I have to stick to the exact same color?

Thanks!!!
 

diddlydoo

New Member
Dec 2, 2013
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Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB
You can overcoat with another shade of pink. No problem.
Awesome. I was worried I'd be stuck with this color and I've gone thru a lot of work to not be happy with the result. :)

Thanks so much.

Is it ok that I won't get the second coat on until the next day?
 

Volnix

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Feb 19, 2011
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Even though paint shops claim that their in shop mixed paints will not have any difference between cans of the same code, they kinda will.

When you mix the paint prior to application you will see some of the pigments not mixing very well and getting stuck on your mixer rotor, not to mention that they will be a little different to begin with from the machine.

The trick is to calculate how much paint you are going to need before any complete application and if its more then one can then you should mix the two or more cans in a container and then apply the paint which will have just one tone instead of starting with one can for half the surface and use the second can for the other half.

Its possible that the second application will require less paint then the first one.

If you have completely covered the surface and you are now applying a second application over the first one then if you dont change the color alot you shouldnt have any problems. Actually even if you used the same code of paint it would also be a bit different.

Just try to have every application done complete with each ammount of paint. Since you are using aerosol can paint applicators it might be difficult to mix the cans.

Do you have an air-pistol applicator? If you need to apply the coating with a spray you might want to get or borrow or rent one of those, get the ammount of paint you need in cans instead of spray-cans and mix them in the applicators container and apply. They are very hard to clean after but you will only need to clean the air-pistol twice for two applications.

Its important to follow the instructions on the cans for drying times and thinning percentages. If you thinn your paint too much you might need to make more applications and its going to be drippy. If you thinn the paint too little you will have a thick fragile layer that might not dry too well. You should also be careful and sand drips (if any) before the final application of paint. You need to let your paint dry for at least the maximum time the can says between applications just to be sure. Allthough this time will vary between conditions. Plus these are kinda "lab" times so they dont take into consideration some drops which will longer to dry. Just dont leave it too long because dust is gonna gather on the surface etc.

This does not apply for primers though, because primers are not designed to be enviroment conditions resistant. But for paint application its fine. Actually the more you leave it to dry you might discover problems with the paint application like stains from beneath coming through, all bubbles are gonna get dry and drips will be easier - less messy to sand.

Are you also going to apply a clear coat afterwards?

Good luck!
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diddlydoo

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Dec 2, 2013
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Thanks so much for the responses.

I did go get more paint this morning after going to Lowes to get a swatch of the exact color pink I was after and even took in a pink sweatshirt of mine that was the same color. Yes, I'm a female, but do like to see men in pink shirts. :)

My brother and I are painting my mom's old bike and kind of pimping it out but not too crazy but we're customizing. This will be part of her Christmas. Brother took the wheels off and most hardware and said here ya go, you can paint the color you want. And me, not liking to tell anyone I can't do that, I took on the challenge and figured mom ought to appreciate the blood and guts and stress that took to get it done. It may not be perfect but at least we are trying to do it on our own. I have no special tools. I sanded by hand (hard work), primed, sanded again, painted and hopefully putting some cute decals on and clear coating.

It's a pink cruiser that is kind of old but it's kind of sentimental.

I have applied the new pink paint and what an improvement. I love the color. Guy at paint store matched it perfectly.

I used stage 1 paint with enamel. Evidently it's all enamel. The guy mixing the paint and another person behind the counter said not to put on a clear coat with this type of paint. It may bubble up and ruin the paint job....50/50 chance that could happen. Now I'm afraid to use the clear coat but really want a clear coat. They said you aren't supposed to use clear coat with an all enamel paint.

I asked the guy to suggest the clear coat that would work best with the type paint he made for me and he suggested Aero Max, R-M, AM 100 Cut-In-Clear. I have no idea if this will work but thought I would try it first on the back of the chain guard and see if it works first before spraying it onto the bike.

Anyone use a Stage 1 paint with clear coat?
 

Volnix

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Feb 19, 2011
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Originally Posted by diddlydoo
putting some cute decals on and clear coating.

I used stage 1 paint with enamel. Evidently it's all enamel. The guy mixing the paint and another person behind the counter said not to put on a clear coat with this type of paint. It may bubble up and ruin the paint job....50/50 chance that could happen .

I asked the guy to suggest the clear coat that would work best with the type paint he made for me and he suggested Aero Max, R-M, AM 100 Cut-In-Clear. I have no idea if this will work but thought I would try it first on the back of the chain guard and see if it works first before spraying it onto the bike.

Anyone use a Stage 1 paint with clear coat?
Some paints are applied with the use of solvents (which evaporate in a short time) and leave the paint pigments on the surface. Others are applied with the use of water -and maybe- alcohol which evaporate in a longer time and leave the paint pigments on the surface.

If you use anything solvent containing it will "block" water soluble stains. Water based coatings do not "block" water soluble stains.
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Can you find a water based clear coating? Or maybe even a wax or "poly" coating perhaps??? Or something that will not "react" with the coating.

Bubbling is kinda "weird" to happen... Unless you are using some w-ery v-eird paint...
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Its best if you try to find a clear coat that will not react with the kind of paint you are using. If you are using a paint specific for automotive or even metal use that will not be too hard to find. Your local paint shop can help you with that.


Good luck!
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alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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FWIW. If the test of the Clear Coat on the back of the chain guard fails, then you may want to consider using a HEAT GUN (~600ºF) to bake the enamel finish ... If you have a HARBOR FREIGHT near you, a heat gun will cost between $10-to-$20.
 

diddlydoo

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Dec 2, 2013
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Heat gun? So that bakes in the enamel which does what? Does the heat help the paint to last longer. Does it help with shine or the heat just basically set the paint to last longer? Would a blow dryer set on high heat do any good at all?

I appreciate the suggestion and at that price, it's definitely worth it if it helps.

Funny that you mention Harbor Freight. I had never heard of the place until just yesterday because I was looking on that site to see what they had in pressure washers. I didn't know where they were located so looked it up and they are about 20 miles away so not too far especially if I'm in that area anyhow.

I am going to wait about 7 days and crossing my fingers the clear coat doesn't react to the paint. I love the new color and it was a lot of work but it sure would make me happy to be able to add the extra step of clear coating.

Yesterday when at the auto parts place, I got some sand paper that is 1200 grit. Is it suggested to lightly use that to go over the paint after a week to smooth it out? I want to make sure before taking the chance of messing it up.

So many questions and yet one more. If I find the clear coat doesn't work, is there something else I could do to help the decals stick to the bike? Heat gun help that too?

Here's pic of clear coat can auto parts guy gave me and a pic of the bike after second coat.



 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
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Originally Posted by diddlydoo
Heat gun? So that bakes in the enamel which does what? Does the heat help the paint to last longer. Does it help with shine or the heat just basically set the paint to last longer? Would a blow dryer set on high heat do any good at all?

Yesterday when at the auto parts place, I got some sand paper that is 1200 grit. Is it suggested to lightly use that to go over the paint after a week to smooth it out? I want to make sure before taking the chance of messing it up.

So many questions and yet one more. If I find the clear coat doesn't work, is there something else I could do to help the decals stick to the bike? Heat gun help that too?
Looks good!
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You should not sand the final coat. Sanding is done to remove cosmetic problems like drips and also to provide a more adhesive surface for the last application of paint.

There a workable temperature range for every paint, which I doubt that its in the range of heat guns temperature. Plus its better to let the applications dry naturaly.

The clear coat you are using is in this brochure. It doesnt say anything about baking it:

https://www.basfrefinish.com/cap_data_docs/documentum/RM/Literature/English/AD3373_RM_Product_Guide_0911.pdf

I didnt know BASF made paints!
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I still remember the old BASF cassette player tapes...
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Some paint work is done in an oven but this is a different procedure. The paint does not "dry" as it is in dust form that is applied to a metalic surface, held on the surface by the means of magnetism and then is "baked" to melt and stay on the surface.

Why bake the enamel if its allready applied? Is it gonna change its properties or something? Or is it gonna get "clear coat like"? Sounds a bit unorthodox...

Are the decals supposed to be painted? Are they not some kind of stickers?

Btw lots and lots of more info here:


Bicycle Frame Refinishing:

http://sheldonbrown.com/paint-prep.html
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Quote:Originally Posted by diddlydoo .Heat gun? So that bakes in the enamel which does what? Does the heat help the paint to last longer. Does it help with shine or the heat just basically set the paint to last longer? Would a blow dryer set on high heat do any good at all?


Baking an enamel finish will make it impervious to solvents ...
  • AND, harden the finish ... essentially, more scratch resistant.
I don't think that a regular hair dryer will get hot enough (well, I hope it won't get hot enough!) ... but, you can try it (the inside of the chain guard will be a good test area). BTW. Harbor Freight has XX-percent-off discount coupons all the time ... if you happen to get (or, know someone who does) the "Entertainment Book" then you can find discount coupons for Harbor Freight in it.
 

Volnix

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Feb 19, 2011
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Originally Posted by alfeng
Baking an enamel finish will make it impervious to solvents ...
  • AND, harden the finish ... essentially, more scratch resistant.
Sounds like its gonna change the finish too... In a non-oven not homogenized way. Apparently it is some kind of ghetto-powder coating... There are rumours of fumes too...

There are some enamels that say that they can be baked with a heat gun, but maybe those have some special formulation so the coating wont -actually- get baked...

Whats the temperature the physical properties of steel start to change? Maybe thats a bad idea for a bike frame...

How does it make it impervious to solvents???
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alfeng

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally Posted by Volnix
Sounds like its gonna change the finish too... In a non-oven not homogenized way. Apparently it is some kind of ghetto-powder coating... There are rumours of fumes too...

There are some enamels that say that they can be baked with a heat gun, but maybe those have some special formulation so the coating wont -actually- get baked...

Whats the temperature the physical properties of steel start to change? Maybe thats a bad idea for a bike frame...

How does it make it impervious to solvents???
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The "baking" is done AFTER the paint has air dried ...

Although I presume that with a 600ºF heat gun (I think THAT is the low end of what is available before one has a "hair dryer") that you can possibly heat the object up to close to the maximum available temp, one certainly does NOT have to try to achieve the max temp on the work object ...

FWIW. I can only speak from limited experience, but I reckon the part of the frame which 'I' heated may not have exceed 200ºF by very much, if at all ... but, maybe it did. It could have been 400ºF for all I know since I wasn't keen to handle it before it cooled!

Regardless, I did not find paint discoloration to be an issue ...

And, I am not sure that paint discoloration would necessarily be a problem at 600ºF ... but, there certainly MUST BE a temp at which discoloration will begin to occur.

Silver soldering/brazing is done at around 600ºF, BTW.

ONE CAVEAT. I can say is that in my poorly remembered haste that EITHER I may have tried to speed up the process by moving the "gun" closer to the head tube in the beginning OR (more likely) I did not clean the repainted section properly prior to painting BECAUSE when I inspected the cooled frame I noticed that there was a pin-point sized pock mark in the crevice of one of the joints of one of the two lugs & the head tube ...

That is, any sins of omission in preparation may become evident after baking & cooling!

As far as making it "impervious to solvents" ... make that "normal solvents" ...

Baking an enameled finish just does (sorry, I cannot explain it other than to speculate as to why where I will suggest the poor analogy that it may be like the "skin" on top of cooled pudding which is essentially non-porous ... ); so, I'll say that the "baking" of the paint removes the last of the solvent & thereby shrinks the paint against the surface & thereby becomes a non-porous surface ...

Also, the baking possibly MELTS the paint to some extent & may thereby change the "bond" between-the-molecules ...

The finish on enameled jewelry has a VERY hard surface (typically, kiln "baked" at really high temps, of course ... the enamel is definitely melted).

BUT solvents like MEK & industrial paint strippers WILL have as adverse an effect as one would experience with any "factory" paint finish.

BECAUSE 'I' have not used a heat gun to "bake" the paint on an entire frame, I do NOT know how long it would take ... I probably spent less than 5 minutes ... so, I would allow a one-to-two hours for a bicycle frame & fork.

Decals go on AFTER baking ...

Some Clear Coats may have an adverse affect on some decals -- I think "lacquers" could be a/(the) problem.
 

diddlydoo

New Member
Dec 2, 2013
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I guess what I don't understand is that I was directed by a bike shop that if I was going to paint my own bike that I should go to an auto parts place to buy my paint because the paint you buy there is used on autos and better quality.

It's called a single stage paint. It cost about 25.00 a can and I used 2 cans.

If this is an auto paint, don't autos use a clear coat?

I will probably try this clear coat in the next couple of days. Who knows, maybe it'll work ok. I would have never used this paint if I knew I couldn't put a clear coat on top of it. Kind of strange that this paint was recommended by a couple people and they also mentioned to add a clear coat.

Confusing....

But thanks everyone for your input.

The decals will go on first before I try the clear coat. Wish me luck!
 

Volnix

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2011
2,883
281
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Originally Posted by diddlydoo
I guess what I don't understand is that I was directed by a bike shop that if I was going to paint my own bike that I should go to an auto parts place to buy my paint because the paint you buy there is used on autos and better quality.

It's called a single stage paint. It cost about 25.00 a can and I used 2 cans.

If this is an auto paint, don't autos use a clear coat?

I will probably try this clear coat in the next couple of days. Who knows, maybe it'll work ok. I would have never used this paint if I knew I couldn't put a clear coat on top of it. Kind of strange that this paint was recommended by a couple people and they also mentioned to add a clear coat.

Confusing....

But thanks everyone for your input.

The decals will go on first before I try the clear coat. Wish me luck!
Good luck!
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Yeah, speciality and technical coatings are pretty expensive... But they usually worth the $$. I painted some metallic chairs in the summer using a rust blocking paint in two layers and added a rust blocking primer too prior to the paint layers. A bit overkill but the chairs are now nuclear!
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It was raining for weeks and not a single spot has chipped and no rust at all. Its also a DIY brush application but they look like new!
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The BASF clear coat you are using if I remember correctly was for automotive use and it was for use on under the hood and the door sides. Since these are high wear areas I guess that it would be a good coating.

Btw sometimes these paints are cut with some nasty chemicals (not water or solvents), sometimes Isocyanic compounds wich need a very careful application in a well ventilated place. The instructions will have lots of info on how to apply the paint and you can also ask BASF for a full document on how to apply the coating correctly. I think these documents are called "something something" for this specific paint and they are a few pages long with lots of detailed instructions and info.

You can also contact the paints manufacturer and ask if there are any issues in applying a clear coat over that paint. Its a good idea to use a single brand of products for a multi-product project since they are usually tested for compatibility.

Maybe you want to check if its a good idea to add the decals under the clear coat. it might be better to add them after the clear coat is applied and dry...