Question about TdF Stage 18 results

[[email protected]]

Both VeloNews and CyclingNews show the same crucial results for Stage
18 of the Tour de France:

[Snip the first 139 irrelevant finishers--who cares about them?]

140 Christopher Horner (USA) Davitamon-Lotto 9.40
141 Walter Beneteau (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 8.00

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/?id=results/tour0618

http://velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10518.0.html

Why is Walter Beneteau edging Christopher Horner out of last place?

Walter's 8.00 behind the stage winner should put him in glory with the
other 115 riders awarded that time, not stuff him at the bottom as
tail-end charlie.

So is Walter's 8.00 behind the leader simply a misprint?

Or was Walter silently relegated or punished for some infraction too
terrible to mention on family bicycling news sites? (Surely they care
about the stage's lanterne rouge!)

Or was Walter simply the victim of sinister Francophobia, in which
Horner's jingoistic fans hacked into the results system and made sure
that a USA rider was not dead last?

Carl Fogel

 

[Robert Chung]

[email protected] wrote:
> Both VeloNews and CyclingNews show the same crucial results for Stage
> 18 of the Tour de France:
>
> [Snip the first 139 irrelevant finishers--who cares about them?]
>
> 140 Christopher Horner (USA) Davitamon-Lotto 9.40
> 141 Walter Beneteau (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 8.00
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/?id=results/tour0618
>
> http://velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10518.0.html
>
> Why is Walter Beneteau edging Christopher Horner out of last place?

If you crash or get a flat within the final 3km, you get the time of the
group you would have finished with but your placing is recorded in the
order you crossed the finish line.

 

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:35:01 +0200, "Robert Chung"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> Both VeloNews and CyclingNews show the same crucial results for Stage
>> 18 of the Tour de France:
>>
>> [Snip the first 139 irrelevant finishers--who cares about them?]
>>
>> 140 Christopher Horner (USA) Davitamon-Lotto 9.40
>> 141 Walter Beneteau (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 8.00
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/?id=results/tour0618
>>
>> http://velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10518.0.html
>>
>> Why is Walter Beneteau edging Christopher Horner out of last place?
>
>If you crash or get a flat within the final 3km, you get the time of the
>group you would have finished with but your placing is recorded in the
>order you crossed the finish line.

Dear Robert,

Aha!

Do you know whether Walter suffered a mere flat tire and fell behind
everyone, or crashed in a desperate effort to out-do one of the other
115 riders in his 8.00 group?

(For some reason, detailed coverage is lacking for the end of the
peloton with which most of us should identify.)

Thanks,

Carl Fogel

 

[Robert Chung]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> Do you know whether Walter suffered a mere flat tire and fell behind
> everyone, or crashed in a desperate effort to out-do one of the other
> 115 riders in his 8.00 group?

Nope, but it might be mentioned in tomorrow's L'Equipe. The reason why
groups of riders are all given the same time, btw, is exactly to prevent
mad sprints for 114th place.

 

[Robert Chung]

Robert Chung wrote:
> The reason why
> groups of riders are all given the same time, btw, is exactly to prevent
> mad sprints for 114th place.

No matter how entertaining that may be.

 

[RS]

It will be interesting to see what nasty things L'Equipe and the French in
general will have to say about Floyd's epic ride yesterday.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]lid says...
>
>
>Robert Chung wrote:
>> The reason why
>> groups of riders are all given the same time, btw, is exactly to prevent
>> mad sprints for 114th place.
>
>No matter how entertaining that may be.
>
>

 

[catzz66]

RS wrote:
> It will be interesting to see what nasty things L'Equipe and the French in
> general will have to say about Floyd's epic ride yesterday.
>
>

From Pirates of the Caribbean

Pintel: "Parley? Damn to the depths whatever man what thought of "Parley"."
Jack Sparrow: "That would be the French."

 

[ZeMascouflatte]

> > It will be interesting to see what nasty things L'Equipe and the French in
> > general will have to say about Floyd's epic ride yesterday.

you're doing what you expect them to do: bashing.
you just assume that they will write something nasty.
as for the french in general, they love the tour, and will certainly
applaud landis whatever he does in the next two days after his
incredible ride to morzine.
i suppose you can't read anything else than american, hence you didn't
bother to check what the french press said after morzine. they were
comparing landis' exploit to the one realized by charly gaul in 1958.
to put it in terms you may understand, it's like if the american press
would compare favorably to muhammad ali a french boxer.
chauvinistic clods like you have certainly a part of responsibility on
how americans are perceived overseas.

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[Mark Hickey]

ZeMascouflatte <[email protected]> wrote:

>i suppose you can't read anything else than american, hence you didn't
>bother to check what the french press said after morzine. they were
>comparing landis' exploit to the one realized by charly gaul in 1958.

It's not like the French media are innocent of American-bashing over
the last seven years, after all. They've got a LONG way to go to
prove that they're over that nonsense. It's kind of hard to blame
someone for assuming it hasn't necessarily reverted to sweetness and
light already.

How about the previous front-page story in the French paper that
essentially said "Landis leads le tour, but has no panache"?

I think Mr. Landis made them eat those words. We haven't seen so much
panache in decades.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[Antti Salonen]

RS <[email protected]> wrote:

> It will be interesting to see what nasty things L'Equipe and the French in
> general will have to say about Floyd's epic ride yesterday.

You'll be disappointed. This may come as a shock, but the French don't
really hate Americans. No doubt they'd prefer French winner, but they
probably don't mind an American winning the Tour any more than a
German or an Italian.

In general, the idea that the French are somehow devastated when an
American wins the Tour is nothing but an american wet dream. Admittedly
L'Equipe seems to be somehow obsessed with Lance Armstrong, but L'Equipe
isn't France and Lance isn't american cycling.

-as

 

[Antti Salonen]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

> How about the previous front-page story in the French paper that
> essentially said "Landis leads le tour, but has no panache"?

That kind of assessments were pretty much everywhere before Thursday's
stage, not just in some French newspaper. You might want to take a look
at posts in rec.bicycles.racing for starters.

> I think Mr. Landis made them eat those words.

I think he surprised many.

> We haven't seen so much panache in decades.

I think he did the only thing he could in a desparate situation. It
worked out because he had a good day and for some reason the main group
completely misjudged the situation. When it became evident that Landis
wouldn't fade, they started the chase too late, and in terrain where the
group doesn't have that much of an advantage over a single, strong
rider. The fact that Landis had an awful day on Wednesday probably
played to his advantage on Thursday, because it led the others to
underestimate him.

I think Landis played his cards as well as he could, and is now likely
to win the whole thing. T-Mobile for example seems to be keeping their
cards in the pocket until next year.

-as

 

[RonSonic]

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:10:46 +0200, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Robert Chung wrote:
>> The reason why
>> groups of riders are all given the same time, btw, is exactly to prevent
>> mad sprints for 114th place.
>
>No matter how entertaining that may be.
>
Which nonetheless happen from time to time. Most especially when Robbie McEwen
is not in the lead group.

Ron

 

[RonSonic]

On 21 Jul 2006 23:23:47 GMT, Antti Salonen <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> How about the previous front-page story in the French paper that
>> essentially said "Landis leads le tour, but has no panache"?
>
>That kind of assessments were pretty much everywhere before Thursday's
>stage, not just in some French newspaper. You might want to take a look
>at posts in rec.bicycles.racing for starters.

Only a dumbass would do that.

>> I think Mr. Landis made them eat those words.
>
>I think he surprised many.
>
>> We haven't seen so much panache in decades.
>
>I think he did the only thing he could in a desparate situation. It
>worked out because he had a good day and for some reason the main group
>completely misjudged the situation. When it became evident that Landis
>wouldn't fade, they started the chase too late, and in terrain where the
>group doesn't have that much of an advantage over a single, strong
>rider. The fact that Landis had an awful day on Wednesday probably
>played to his advantage on Thursday, because it led the others to
>underestimate him.
>
>I think Landis played his cards as well as he could, and is now likely
>to win the whole thing. T-Mobile for example seems to be keeping their
>cards in the pocket until next year.

An annual feature of the tour has become watching the strongest team in the race
save its strength for .... what, exactly? Those are such excellent riders it
boggles the mind that they can't manage to organize well enough for any of them
to win.

Ron

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:10:46 +0200, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Robert Chung wrote:
> >> The reason why
> >> groups of riders are all given the same time, btw, is exactly to prevent
> >> mad sprints for 114th place.
> >
> >No matter how entertaining that may be.
> >
> Which nonetheless happen from time to time. Most especially when Robbie McEwen
> is not in the lead group.

As in stage 17 when he led the autobus across the line.

60 David Millar (GBr) Saunier Duval 43.44
61 Sandy Casar (Fra) Francaise Des Jeux
62 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 52.02
63 Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Francaise Des Jeux
64 Manuel Quinziato (Ita) Liquigas
65 Marco Velo (Ita) Milram
66 Walter Beneteau (Fra) Bouygues Telecom
....

--
Michael Press

 

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:48:22 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:35:01 +0200, "Robert Chung"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>> Both VeloNews and CyclingNews show the same crucial results for Stage
>>> 18 of the Tour de France:
>>>
>>> [Snip the first 139 irrelevant finishers--who cares about them?]
>>>
>>> 140 Christopher Horner (USA) Davitamon-Lotto 9.40
>>> 141 Walter Beneteau (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 8.00
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/?id=results/tour0618
>>>
>>> http://velonews.com/tour2006/results/articles/10518.0.html
>>>
>>> Why is Walter Beneteau edging Christopher Horner out of last place?
>>
>>If you crash or get a flat within the final 3km, you get the time of the
>>group you would have finished with but your placing is recorded in the
>>order you crossed the finish line.
>
>Dear Robert,
>
>Aha!
>
>Do you know whether Walter suffered a mere flat tire and fell behind
>everyone, or crashed in a desperate effort to out-do one of the other
>115 riders in his 8.00 group?
>
>(For some reason, detailed coverage is lacking for the end of the
>peloton with which most of us should identify.)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Carl Fogel

Alas, as a famous poetess [1] might have written . . .

Ode to Walter Beneteau, Last Place'd

And did young Walter falter,
And did young Walter crash.
And did sad hearts thicken,
As Walter's bike went smash?

No; such was not the gaudy fate
Of Young Walter Beneteau;
Though sad hearts round him thickened,
He had not even stubbed his toe.

No fatigue cracks did rack his frame,
Nor collisions mar his eight-oh-oh;
Not these impaired the sacred name
Of Walter Beneteau.

Despised heat struck not with woe
That noble rider's urge to go,
Nor stomach troubles laid him low,
Young Walter Beneteau.

O no. Then list with tearful eye,
And all your garments rend.
His soul did from the peloton fly
By flatting at the end.

They pumped him up and sent him on;
Alas it was too late;
His hopes of 131st place
Had been utterly erased.

http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/news/articles/10529.0.html

Cheers,

Emmeline Grangerford

[1] http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/1190.html

 

[[email protected]]

Michael Press wrote:
> RonSonic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:10:46 +0200, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Robert Chung wrote:
> > >> The reason why
> > >> groups of riders are all given the same time, btw, is exactly to prevent
> > >> mad sprints for 114th place.
> > >
> > >No matter how entertaining that may be.
> > >
> > Which nonetheless happen from time to time. Most especially when Robbie McEwen
> > is not in the lead group.
>
> As in stage 17 when he led the autobus across the line.
>
> 60 David Millar (GBr) Saunier Duval 43.44
> 61 Sandy Casar (Fra) Francaise Des Jeux
> 62 Robbie McEwen (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 52.02
> 63 Bernhard Eisel (Aut) Francaise Des Jeux
> 64 Manuel Quinziato (Ita) Liquigas
> 65 Marco Velo (Ita) Milram
> 66 Walter Beneteau (Fra) Bouygues Telecom

Mackie Wen and/or Zabel have frequently been at the
head of the grupetto at the finish. Generally, after the
grupetto forms, a few experienced riders act as
captains of the bus. These guys dictate the pace of
the bus, using their experience to conserve as much
energy as possible while making sure they make
the time cut (or close enough that the race jury lets
them slide, if it's a very hard stage). It is quite
possible that Mackie Wen and Zabel have been
piloting the bus.

I think some of Frankie Andreu's old Tour diaries may
have discussed autobus strategy, but not sure these
are on the web anymore.

Ben

 

[Nick Payne]

"RonSonic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:10:46 +0200, "Robert Chung" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Robert Chung wrote:
>>> The reason why
>>> groups of riders are all given the same time, btw, is exactly to prevent
>>> mad sprints for 114th place.
>>
>>No matter how entertaining that may be.
>>
> Which nonetheless happen from time to time. Most especially when Robbie
> McEwen
> is not in the lead group.
>
Except if you'd watched the finish of the abovementioned stage you would
have seen McEwen shrug his shoulders about 300m from the line and take no
part in the sprint for 16th place...

 

[R Brickston]

On 21 Jul 2006 23:02:46 GMT, Antti Salonen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>RS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It will be interesting to see what nasty things L'Equipe and the French in
>> general will have to say about Floyd's epic ride yesterday.
>
>You'll be disappointed. This may come as a shock, but the French don't
>really hate Americans. No doubt they'd prefer French winner, but they
>probably don't mind an American winning the Tour any more than a
>German or an Italian.
>
>In general, the idea that the French are somehow devastated when an
>American wins the Tour is nothing but an american wet dream. Admittedly
>L'Equipe seems to be somehow obsessed with Lance Armstrong, but L'Equipe
>isn't France and Lance isn't american cycling.
>
>-as

The French press in general seem to have it in for Armstrong:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2216360&page=1

 

[RS]

Yes, the French and the cycling world love the Tour. I love the Tour. I do not
think any of us need to be reminded of the at best tepid response the French
have given the only 7-time Tour winner. I recall when Lance was allowed to
say a few words on the Podium in 2005 and the charitabley lukewarm response
of the crowd. Floyd has been over the top this year and I hope his efforts can
transcend even the well known French snobbery. I don't dislike France or
French people; I do find that aspect of French culture unappealing at best.

Rick

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>> > It will be interesting to see what nasty things L'Equipe and the French in
>> > general will have to say about Floyd's epic ride yesterday.
>
>you're doing what you expect them to do: bashing.
>you just assume that they will write something nasty.
>as for the french in general, they love the tour, and will certainly
>applaud landis whatever he does in the next two days after his
>incredible ride to morzine.
>i suppose you can't read anything else than american, hence you didn't
>bother to check what the french press said after morzine. they were
>comparing landis' exploit to the one realized by charly gaul in 1958.
>to put it in terms you may understand, it's like if the american press
>would compare favorably to muhammad ali a french boxer.
>chauvinistic clods like you have certainly a part of responsibility on
>how americans are perceived overseas.
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
>----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
>----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.usenet.com

 

[R Brickston]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:06:39 -0700, RS <[email protected]> wrote:

>Yes, the French and the cycling world love the Tour. I love the Tour. I do not
>think any of us need to be reminded of the at best tepid response the French
>have given the only 7-time Tour winner. I recall when Lance was allowed to
>say a few words on the Podium in 2005 and the charitabley lukewarm response
>of the crowd. Floyd has been over the top this year and I hope his efforts can
>transcend even the well known French snobbery. I don't dislike France or
>French people; I do find that aspect of French culture unappealing at best.
>

It's a very closed culture* and hence the "superior" attitudes.

*Two examples of the result of this closed culture is you find very
few French that marry outside of their nationality and bery little
emigration outside the country.


<snip>