Question about tube/tire weight



D

Dave Mennenoh

Guest
Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of Hitchinson
Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy, rubber tubes
but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats. Since
flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might
be nice. But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes
vs using light butyl tubes compares. Does it really matter?
Are there any articles on this? I am using pretty light
tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

thanks.

--
Dave http://www.blurredistinction.com/director Team
Macromedia Volunteer http://www.macromedia.com/go/team
 
"Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
> tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
> series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of
> Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy,
> rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch
> flats. Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought
> the greens might be nice. But now I'm wondering how the
> ride of these tubes vs using light butyl
tubes
> compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on
> this? I am
using
> pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
>
> thanks.
>
In order to finish first, first you must finish.....or
something corny like that.
 
"Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
> tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
> series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of
> Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy,
> rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch
> flats. Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought
> the greens might be nice. But now I'm wondering how the
> ride of these tubes vs using light butyl
tubes
> compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on
> this? I am
using
> pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
>
> thanks.
>
>
> --

How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs,
I'd suggest you try some practice laps with the panaracer
FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch flat
like x-country tires do, they will out-corner the
Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on
technical climbs. The con side of this is that they weigh
800 grams each, but if you are close to 200 pounds, you
should have enough extra power over the 150 pound riders,
for the small increase in rotational mass to be pretty much
a non-issue. Coming into turns faster, being able to slow
down faster, being able to climb loose ground on hills
better, all of this is on the pro side. Plus, pinch flats
should never happen, even running 34 psi.

Dan V

P.S.I have read nothing on this, but I have been
experimenting :)
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> kc.rr.com...
> > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
> > and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
> > mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a
> > pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are
> > thick, heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
> > resistant to pinch flats. Since flatting in a race
> > really bites, I thought the greens might be nice. But
> > now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using
> > light butyl
> tubes
> > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles
> > on this? I am
> using
> > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
> >
> > thanks.
> >
> >
> > --
>
> How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs,
> I'd suggest you try some practice laps with the panaracer
> FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch
> flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner the
> Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on
> technical climbs.
<snip more lameness>

Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an
admitted rookie and obviously still don't know jack. You
don't know where the OP lives and you are suggesting tires
to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
erroneous claim.

JD
 
"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
> > > and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
> > > mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,
and
> > > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my
> > > bike. They are
thick,
> > > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
> > > resistant to pinch
flats.
> > > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the
> > > greens might be
nice.
> > > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs
> > > using light butyl
> > tubes
> > > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any
> > > articles on this? I am
> > using
> > > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
> > >
> > > thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> >
> > How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over
> > 200lbs, I'd suggest
you
> > try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4
> > inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch flat like
> > x-country tires do, they will
out-corner
> > the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on
> > technical
climbs.
> <snip more lameness>
>
> Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an
> admitted rookie and obviously still don't know jack. You
> don't know where the OP lives and you are suggesting tires
> to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
> erroneous claim.
>
> JD

I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big
climb at altitudes over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same as
me saying I am a rookie.

I started mountain biking on a fully rigid Raleigh back even
before hyperglide existed---this could be nearly 20 years
ago. I entered a Norba National in Georgia in the early 80's
with a Diamond back ( rigid, with hyperglide), and rode in
the equivalent of today's expert class. Came in somewhere in
the middle, this being a ski slope course with a big
vertical for me---at that time, I had won lots of flat or
rolling hills type road races, and mountain biking looked
like it would be alot more fun. I was riding around Buffalo
alot back then, in the Ski slope areas and ski-doo trails. I
did plenty of trips to NC, but ended up doing more and more
business in Florida, so I had to move there permanently. I
took time off from all riding about 5 years ago ( and got
out of shape), when I was developing my own software
business, and this was doing well enough a year ago for me
to begin trying to get back to where I once was, in my
riding. I went from 180 pounds ripped when I was winning
races, to having business prevent me from riding and
ballooning to 237 pounds in January...I am down to 212
pounds now. I am riding typically 5 days per week, and hit
the gym 3 days per week. My bodyfat level is down from over
24% to around 17%, and its going down steadily. I could win
at sport class races now on south Florida courses, but I
prefer to wait until I can compete at Expert level. Most of
the guys I ride with, race as Expert category riders,
whenever they race. I don't really care too much about
racing any more, but will probably do one or two races on
cool courses before the end of the year. I would be more apt
to pick a race, or ride, in the Smoky Mountains of NC, or
Tenn, than I would around Florida--I would not do as well in
these bigger mountains because of the bigger hills, but the
rides would be alot more fun for me.

Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some
time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I
can see how on some trails these bikes could be an
advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover, its
the person riding the bike that will make the biggest
difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have
your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall,
and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other
local trails.

Dan V
 
[email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
> > > and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
> > > mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a
> > > pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are
> > > thick, heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
> > > resistant to pinch flats. Since flatting in a race
> > > really bites, I thought the greens might be nice. But
> > > now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using
> > > light butyl
> tubes
> > > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any
> > > articles on this? I am
> using
> > > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
> > >
> > > thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> >
> > How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over
> > 200lbs, I'd suggest you try some practice laps with the
> > panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill tires). They
> > won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-
> > corner the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better
> > bite on technical climbs.
> <snip more lameness>
>
> Why would anyone

<snip ... rabid, foaming at the mouth, venom soked ....
well ... snip>

> BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
> erroneous claim.

Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

R
 
"Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or
> tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike
> series, in Wisconsin, and recently put a pair of
> Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick, heavy,
> rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch
> flats. Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought
> the greens might be nice. But now I'm wondering how the
> ride of these tubes vs using light butyl tubes compares.
> Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I
> am using pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're
> 1.85's...
>
> thanks.

If all you are doing is racing, consider the Stan's no tubes
set up. You can pretty much get it to work with any
reasonable tire and rim set up.

With the consideration that the terrain is different in this
part of the country (SSW)... the "hot" set up around here is
Sun 0 degree/UFO's or DT XR4.1 with stan's and EpicWolf
1.95/2.1 or Air Light Pythons.

A 395gr rim and a 480gr tire with no tubes ....

R
 
Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:

(snip sad racerboy bio)
>
> Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some
> time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I
> can see how on some trails these bikes could be an
> advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover, its
> the person riding the bike that will make the biggest
> difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
> still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have
> your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall,
> and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other
> local trails.
>
Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this
newsgroup. Really. One question though: Do you find the hook
in your mouth distracting while you type?

Tom
 
"tcmedara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...
> Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> (snip sad racerboy bio)
> >
> > Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers
> > some time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS
> > bikes. I can see how on some trails these bikes could be
> > an advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover,
> > its the person riding the bike that will make the
> > biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I
> > can see you still want blood from me, and with any luck,
> > you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas
> > this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as
> > Cottonwood, and other local trails.
> >
> Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this
> newsgroup. Really. One question though: Do you find the
> hook in your mouth distracting while you type?
>
> Tom
>
Tom, I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its
going to be bait. Sooner or later someone here will ride
with me, and it will be pretty clear I'm not a novice. I
wanted to clear that up now, so that later on he can't claim
all his remarks were because he thought I was a newbie. And
I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I don't
know that JD will show for any of these like Bootleg Canyon--
it being a pretty long drive for him from what I've heard.
But that's fine, I know people "like" him here---good at
trials type technical, though primarily a trail rider, but
not in to racing. We have guys here that come to a 4 foot
high tree which fell across the trail, and they love to do
their wheelies up onto the log, hop along sideways for a
bit, then jump off the other side. Me, I'd rather carry my
bike over the log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the
tree is not a big perk to me. I'm guessing this must be how
JD is, with riding big boulder patches, etc. I also don't
care too much if a guy who lives at altitude can beat me up
long climbs over 6000 feet high, considering that I live at
sea level. In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places
throughout the year, with enough people, so that what I say
here will be backed up by the experiences of others. JD can
carp all he wants--its not going to mean anything to me.

Dan V
 
SkaredShtles <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message
> <snip>
> >> BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
> >> erroneous claim.
> >
> > Tubeless/Stan's No tubes
>
> Interesting. I pinch-flatted one of my new-fangled
> tubeless on my 3rd ride on 'em. I went back to separate
> tubes & tires.
>
> -S.S.-

How did you pinch flat something that wasn't there? A
pinch flat by definition is a hole in an inner tube caused
by getting the tube "pinched" between the rim and a
road/trail hazard.

R
 
Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:
> "tcmedara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...
>> Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> (snip sad racerboy bio)
>>>
>>> Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers
>>> some time ago, I have ridden with several people on SS
>>> bikes. I can see how on some trails these bikes could be
>>> an advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover,
>>> its the person riding the bike that will make the
>>> biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I
>>> can see you still want blood from me, and with any luck,
>>> you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas
>>> this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as
>>> Cottonwood, and other local trails.
>>>
>> Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this
>> newsgroup. Really. One question though: Do you find the
>> hook in your mouth distracting while you type?
>>
>> Tom
>>
> Tom, I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its
> going to be bait. Sooner or later someone here will ride
> with me, and it will be pretty clear I'm not a novice.

Novice or not, you have an amazing tendency to spout off
without considering what it is you're saying.

>I wanted to clear that up now, so that later on he
>can't claim all his remarks were because he thought I
>was a newbie.

Why you seem so intent on proving your credentials to a
bunch of usenet knuckleheads speaks volumes.

> And I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I
> don't know that JD will show for any of these like Bootleg
> Canyon--it being a pretty long drive for him from what
> I've heard. But that's fine, I know people "like" him here---
> good at trials type technical, though primarily a trail
> rider, but not in to racing.

See above -- you've never ridden with him nor seen him ride.
My advice is to just STFU about your opinion of his riding
skill until then, eh?

>We have guys here that come to a 4 foot high tree which
>fell across the trail, and they love to do their wheelies
>up onto the log, hop along sideways for a bit, then jump
>off the other side. Me, I'd rather carry my bike over the
>log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the tree is not a
>big perk to me. I'm guessing this must be how JD is, with
>riding big boulder patches, etc.

Key word.... guessing. Stop making conclusions based on your
unknowledgable guesses and you won't catch so much ****.
'Course your posts won't be near as much fun either

> I also don't care too much if a guy who lives at altitude
> can beat me up long climbs over 6000 feet high,
> considering that I live at sea level.

You have no idea what he can and can't beat you at, since
you have never ridden with him right? Why go down that
road, dumbass?

> In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places
> throughout the year, with enough people, so that what I
> say here will be backed up by the experiences of
> others. JD can carp all he wants--its not going to mean
> anything to me.
>
It obviously is something to you because everytime JD pokes
you in your racerboy wannabe chest you respond with
assertion and bombast, usually about the "expert class"
riders you keep up with. It's just laughable.

.....there, another hook just dangling for ya.

Tom
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube
> > > > and/or tire weight affects riding? I race the WORS
> > > > mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,
> and
> > > > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my
> > > > bike. They are
> thick,
> > > > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty
> > > > resistant to pinch
> flats.
> > > > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the
> > > > greens might be
> nice.
> > > > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs
> > > > using light butyl
> tubes
> > > > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any
> > > > articles on this? I am
> using
> > > > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're
> > > > 1.85's...
> > > >
> > > > thanks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > > How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over
> > > 200lbs, I'd suggest
> you
> > > try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4
> > > inch Light Downhill tires). They won't pinch flat like
> > > x-country tires do, they will
> out-corner
> > > the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite
> > > on technical
> climbs.
> > <snip more lameness>
> >
> > Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an
> > admitted rookie and obviously still don't know jack. You
> > don't know where the OP lives and you are suggesting
> > tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary
> > to your erroneous claim.
> >
> > JD
>
> I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big
> climb at altitudes over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same
> as me saying I am a rookie.

You don't know jack, hence "rookie". Yes, it's that obvious.

> I can see you still want blood from me, and with any luck,
> you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas
> this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood,
> and other local trails.

I've seen enough of your "blood" in your continued flailings
and psuedo-expert "opinions". Keep it up, flatlander.

JD
 
[email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<ebf270c9.04-
> > [email protected]>...
> > > BTW, you CAN pinch flat any tire, contrary to your
> > > erroneous claim.
> >
> > Tubeless/Stan's No tubes
>
> Don't kid yourself. I've seen blown sidewalls on a
> Hutchinson tubeless that was the victim of a classic
> pinch flat.
>
> JD

Don't get me wrong tubeless systems have just as many modes
for flats as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition
can't happen.

From old Cow-head:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.3.html

From Fuzzy be fuzzy no more ... or is he?:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html

Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans
tensioner). Of course I once pulled the wheel forward on a
climb, had the chain come off the ring, catch on one of the
arms, and wedge itself between the crank and chainstay. The
result was the same as chainsuck, but the mode was
different.

R
 
On 29 May 2004 07:48:57 -0700, [email protected] (Reco Diver)
scribbled:

>Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans
>tensioner). Of course I once pulled the wheel forward on a
>climb, had the chain come off the ring, catch on one of the
>arms, and wedge itself between the crank and chainstay. The
>result was the same as chainsuck, but the mode was
>different.
>
>R

A classic pinch-flat it might not be, but I'm sure that with
the right circumstances you could easily chisel a hole
through the tire wall by slamming it against the rim.

-Slash
--
"Ebert Victorious"
-The Onion
 
[email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

<snip>
> as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition
> can't happen.
>

I guess if you want to mentally masturbate regarding the
"definition" of pinch flat, be my guest. All I know is that
I got a *pinch flat* with a tubeless tire.

-S.S.-
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
elan_mbx1 @NOSPAMyahoo.com says...
> Subject: Re: Question about tube/tire weight From:
> SkaredShtles <[email protected]> Newsgroups:
> alt.mountain-bike
>
> [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> <snip>
> > as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition can't
> > happen.
> >
>
> I guess if you want to mentally masturbate regarding the
> "definition" of pinch flat, be my guest. All I know is
> that I got a *pinch flat* with a tubeless tire.
>
> -S.S.-
>
>

Call it a snake bite and there can be no argument :)
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-
online.com