Question about tube/tire weight



D

Dave Mennenoh

Guest
Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl tubes
compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am using
pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...

thanks.


--
Dave
http://www.blurredistinction.com/director
Team Macromedia Volunteer
http://www.macromedia.com/go/team
 
"Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
> affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
> recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
> heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
> Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
> But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl

tubes
> compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am

using
> pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
>
> thanks.
>

In order to finish first, first you must finish.....or something corny like
that.
 
"Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
> affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
> recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
> heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
> Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
> But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl

tubes
> compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am

using
> pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
>
> thanks.
>
>
> --


How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest you
try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner
the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical climbs.
The con side of this is that they weigh 800 grams each, but if you are close
to 200 pounds, you should have enough extra power over the 150 pound
riders, for the small increase in rotational mass to be pretty much a
non-issue. Coming into turns faster, being able to slow down faster, being
able to climb loose ground on hills better, all of this is on the pro side.
Plus, pinch flats should never happen, even running 34 psi.

Dan V

P.S.
I have read nothing on this, but I have been experimenting :)
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
> > affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
> > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
> > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
> > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
> > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl

> tubes
> > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am

> using
> > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
> >
> > thanks.
> >
> >
> > --

>
> How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest you
> try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
> tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner
> the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical climbs.

<snip more lameness>

Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an admitted rookie
and obviously still don't know jack. You don't know where the OP
lives and you are suggesting tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat
any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

JD
 
"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
> > > affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,

and
> > > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are

thick,
> > > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch

flats.
> > > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be

nice.
> > > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl

> > tubes
> > > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am

> > using
> > > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
> > >
> > > thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > --

> >
> > How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest

you
> > try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
> > tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will

out-corner
> > the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical

climbs.
> <snip more lameness>
>
> Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an admitted rookie
> and obviously still don't know jack. You don't know where the OP
> lives and you are suggesting tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat
> any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.
>
> JD


I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big climb at altitudes
over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same as me saying I am a rookie.

I started mountain biking on a fully rigid Raleigh back even before
hyperglide existed---this could be nearly 20 years ago. I entered a Norba
National in Georgia in the early 80's with a Diamond back ( rigid, with
hyperglide), and rode in the equivalent of today's expert class. Came in
somewhere in the middle, this being a ski slope course with a big vertical
for me---at that time, I had won lots of flat or rolling hills type road
races, and mountain biking looked like it would be alot more fun. I was
riding around Buffalo alot back then, in the Ski slope areas and ski-doo
trails. I did plenty of trips to NC, but ended up doing more and more
business in Florida, so I had to move there permanently.
I took time off from all riding about 5 years ago ( and got out of shape),
when I was developing my own software business, and this was doing well
enough a year ago for me to begin trying to get back to where I once was,
in my riding.
I went from 180 pounds ripped when I was winning races, to having business
prevent me from riding and ballooning to 237 pounds in January...I am down
to 212 pounds now. I am riding typically 5 days per week, and hit the
gym 3 days per week. My bodyfat level is down from over 24% to around 17%,
and its going down steadily. I could win at sport class races now on south
Florida courses, but I prefer to wait until I can compete at Expert level.
Most of the guys I ride with, race as Expert category riders, whenever they
race.
I don't really care too much about racing any more, but will probably do one
or two races on cool courses before the end of the year. I would be more apt
to pick a race, or ride, in the Smoky Mountains of NC, or Tenn, than I
would around Florida--I would not do as well in these bigger mountains
because of the bigger hills, but the rides would be alot more fun for me.

Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago, I have
ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some trails these
bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would not...Moreover, its
the person riding the bike that will make the biggest difference, on the
vast majority of trails. I can see you still want blood from me, and with
any luck, you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this
fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.

Dan V
 
[email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
> > > affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
> > > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
> > > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
> > > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
> > > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl

> tubes
> > > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am

> using
> > > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
> > >
> > > thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > > --

> >
> > How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest you
> > try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
> > tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will out-corner
> > the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical climbs.

> <snip more lameness>
>
> Why would anyone


<snip ... rabid, foaming at the mouth, venom soked .... well ... snip>

> BTW, you CAN pinch flat
> any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.


Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

R
 
"Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
> affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin, and
> recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are thick,
> heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch flats.
> Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be nice.
> But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl tubes
> compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am using
> pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
>
> thanks.


If all you are doing is racing, consider the Stan's no tubes set up.
You can pretty much get it to work with any reasonable tire and rim
set up.

With the consideration that the terrain is different in this part of
the country (SSW)... the "hot" set up around here is Sun 0
degree/UFO's or DT XR4.1 with stan's and EpicWolf 1.95/2.1 or Air
Light Pythons.

A 395gr rim and a 480gr tire with no tubes ....

R
 
[email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> [email protected] (JD) wrote in message

<snip>
>> BTW, you CAN pinch flat
>> any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

>
> Tubeless/Stan's No tubes


Interesting. I pinch-flatted one of my new-fangled tubeless on my 3rd ride
on 'em. I went back to separate tubes & tires.

-S.S.-
 
Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:

(snip sad racerboy bio)
>
> Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago,
> I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some
> trails these bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would
> not...Moreover, its the person riding the bike that will make the
> biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
> still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have your chance
> when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon
> as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.
>

Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this newsgroup. Really.
One question though: Do you find the hook in your mouth distracting while
you type?

Tom
 
"tcmedara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...
> Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> (snip sad racerboy bio)
> >
> > Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago,
> > I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some
> > trails these bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would
> > not...Moreover, its the person riding the bike that will make the
> > biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
> > still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have your chance
> > when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon
> > as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.
> >

> Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this newsgroup. Really.
> One question though: Do you find the hook in your mouth distracting while
> you type?
>
> Tom
>

Tom,
I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its going to be bait. Sooner
or later someone here will ride with me, and it will be pretty clear I'm not
a novice. I wanted to clear that up now, so that later on he can't claim all
his remarks were because he thought I was a newbie.
And I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I don't know that JD
will show for any of these like Bootleg Canyon--it being a pretty long drive
for him from what I've heard. But that's fine, I know people "like" him
here---good at trials type technical, though primarily a trail rider, but
not in to racing. We have guys here that come to a 4 foot high tree which
fell across the trail, and they love to do their wheelies up onto the log,
hop along sideways for a bit, then jump off the other side. Me, I'd rather
carry my bike over the log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the tree is
not a big perk to me. I'm guessing this must be how JD is, with riding big
boulder patches, etc.
I also don't care too much if a guy who lives at altitude can beat me up
long climbs over 6000 feet high, considering that I live at sea level.
In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places throughout the year, with
enough people, so that what I say here will be backed up by the experiences
of others. JD can carp all he wants--its not going to mean anything to me.

Dan V
 
SkaredShtles <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message

> <snip>
> >> BTW, you CAN pinch flat
> >> any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

> >
> > Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

>
> Interesting. I pinch-flatted one of my new-fangled tubeless on my 3rd ride
> on 'em. I went back to separate tubes & tires.
>
> -S.S.-


How did you pinch flat something that wasn't there? A pinch flat by
definition is a hole in an inner tube caused by getting the tube
"pinched" between the rim and a road/trail hazard.

R
 
Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:
> "tcmedara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Nmytc.190$eP.138@lakeread01...
>> Dan Volker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> (snip sad racerboy bio)
>>>
>>> Since the discussions I had with you and other SS'ers some time ago,
>>> I have ridden with several people on SS bikes. I can see how on some
>>> trails these bikes could be an advantage, and on others they would
>>> not...Moreover, its the person riding the bike that will make the
>>> biggest difference, on the vast majority of trails. I can see you
>>> still want blood from me, and with any luck, you'll have your chance
>>> when I visit my friends in Vegas this fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon
>>> as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.
>>>

>> Dan, buddy I'm getting to love your presence in this newsgroup.
>> Really. One question though: Do you find the hook in your mouth
>> distracting while you type?
>>
>> Tom
>>

> Tom,
> I realize that if JD is going to post "at" me, its going to be bait.
> Sooner or later someone here will ride with me, and it will be pretty
> clear I'm not a novice.


Novice or not, you have an amazing tendency to spout off without considering
what it is you're saying.

>I wanted to clear that up now, so that later
> on he can't claim all his remarks were because he thought I was a
> newbie.


Why you seem so intent on proving your credentials to a bunch of usenet
knuckleheads speaks volumes.

> And I will be doing some rides out West this fall....I don't know
> that JD will show for any of these like Bootleg Canyon--it being a
> pretty long drive for him from what I've heard. But that's fine, I
> know people "like" him here---good at trials type technical, though
> primarily a trail rider, but not in to racing.


See above -- you've never ridden with him nor seen him ride. My advice is
to just STFU about your opinion of his riding skill until then, eh?

>We have guys here
> that come to a 4 foot high tree which fell across the trail, and they
> love to do their wheelies up onto the log, hop along sideways for a
> bit, then jump off the other side. Me, I'd rather carry my bike over
> the log--its faster, easier, and "beating" the tree is not a big perk
> to me. I'm guessing this must be how JD is, with riding big boulder
> patches, etc.


Key word.... guessing. Stop making conclusions based on your unknowledgable
guesses and you won't catch so much ****. 'Course your posts won't be near
as much fun either

> I also don't care too much if a guy who lives at altitude can beat me
> up long climbs over 6000 feet high, considering that I live at sea
> level.


You have no idea what he can and can't beat you at, since you have never
ridden with him right? Why go down that road, dumbass?

> In any event, I'll be out riding in enough places throughout the
> year, with enough people, so that what I say here will be backed up
> by the experiences of others. JD can carp all he wants--its not
> going to mean anything to me.
>

It obviously is something to you because everytime JD pokes you in your
racerboy wannabe chest you respond with assertion and bombast, usually about
the "expert class" riders you keep up with. It's just laughable.

......there, another hook just dangling for ya.


Tom
 
"Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dan Volker" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "Dave Mennenoh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Does anyone have any references regarding how tube and/or tire weight
> > > > affects riding? I race the WORS mountain bike series, in Wisconsin,

> and
> > > > recently put a pair of Hitchinson Green tubes on my bike. They are

> thick,
> > > > heavy, rubber tubes but supposed to be pretty resistant to pinch

> flats.
> > > > Since flatting in a race really bites, I thought the greens might be

> nice.
> > > > But now I'm wondering how the ride of these tubes vs using light butyl

> tubes
> > > > compares. Does it really matter? Are there any articles on this? I am

> using
> > > > pretty light tires - Geax Sedona's - they're 1.85's...
> > > >
> > > > thanks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > > How much do you weigh? If you are close to or over 200lbs, I'd suggest

> you
> > > try some practice laps with the panaracer FR's ( 2.4 inch Light Downhill
> > > tires). They won't pinch flat like x-country tires do, they will

> out-corner
> > > the Hutchinsons dramatically, and you get better bite on technical

> climbs.
> > <snip more lameness>
> >
> > Why would anyone listen to your claptrap? You are an admitted rookie
> > and obviously still don't know jack. You don't know where the OP
> > lives and you are suggesting tires to him? BTW, you CAN pinch flat
> > any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.
> >
> > JD

>
> I admitted that I would be unlikely to beat you up a big climb at altitudes
> over 6000 feet. That's hardly the same as me saying I am a rookie.


You don't know jack, hence "rookie". Yes, it's that obvious.

> I can see you still want blood from me, and with
> any luck, you'll have your chance when I visit my friends in Vegas this
> fall, and ride Bootleg Canyon as well as Cottonwood, and other local trails.


I've seen enough of your "blood" in your continued flailings and
psuedo-expert "opinions". Keep it up, flatlander.

JD
 
[email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > [email protected] (JD) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > > BTW, you CAN pinch flat
> > > any tire, contrary to your erroneous claim.

> >
> > Tubeless/Stan's No tubes

>
> Don't kid yourself. I've seen blown sidewalls on a Hutchinson
> tubeless that was the victim of a classic pinch flat.
>
> JD


Don't get me wrong tubeless systems have just as many modes for flats
as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition can't happen.

From old Cow-head:
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8b.3.html

From Fuzzy be fuzzy no more ... or is he?:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html

Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans tensioner). Of
course I once pulled the wheel forward on a climb, had the chain come
off the ring, catch on one of the arms, and wedge itself between the
crank and chainstay. The result was the same as chainsuck, but the
mode was different.

R
 
On 29 May 2004 07:48:57 -0700, [email protected] (Reco Diver)
scribbled:

>Similarly, you can't get chainsuck on a one-speed (sans tensioner). Of
>course I once pulled the wheel forward on a climb, had the chain come
>off the ring, catch on one of the arms, and wedge itself between the
>crank and chainstay. The result was the same as chainsuck, but the
>mode was different.
>
>R


A classic pinch-flat it might not be, but I'm sure that with the right
circumstances you could easily chisel a hole through the tire wall by
slamming it against the rim.

-Slash
--
"Ebert Victorious"
-The Onion
 
[email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

<snip>
> as tubed systems, but pinch flats by definition can't happen.
>


I guess if you want to mentally masturbate regarding the "definition" of
pinch flat, be my guest. All I know is that I got a *pinch flat* with a
tubeless tire.

-S.S.-