Question for training gurus..

[jack73]

This is a seroius post I am not trolling these are actually my stats. I am 6'5" and I weigh 330 lbs my body fat is 19% by dunk test. I was 235 lbs and broke my back. At that time I was running 8-10 w/ a 12 long run on every other Sunday and I cycled twice a week (20-30 miles per ride).
For three years now I have tried to get back in shape. I can run but past three miles my back hurts. I have been cycling and doing spinning classes and I workout a boxing gym twice a week. I am eating a good diet, burning 3500-3800 cals/wk via cycling road and stationary, intake 2500-2800 daily. And I am active otherwise, taking kid to wrestling, cub scouts, etc.
I had my VO2max tested it is 54ml/kg @ 33, down from 62ml/kg @ 26 (i expect that) but my cholesterol is a little wacko yet my doc says no worries hdl is a little low 38, ldl is 68.
My question is: What the heck am I doing wrong? I am eating plenty of veggies not gorging, no alcohol. I could really use some advice....

 

[TiMan]

This is a seroius post I am not trolling these are actually my stats. I am 6'5" and I weigh 330 lbs my body fat is 19% by dunk test. I was 235 lbs and broke my back. At that time I was running 8-10 w/ a 12 long run on every other Sunday and I cycled twice a week (20-30 miles per ride).
For three years now I have tried to get back in shape. I can run but past three miles my back hurts. I have been cycling and doing spinning classes and I workout a boxing gym twice a week. I am eating a good diet, burning 3500-3800 cals/wk via cycling road and stationary, intake 2500-2800 daily. And I am active otherwise, taking kid to wrestling, cub scouts, etc.
I had my VO2max tested it is 54ml/kg @ 33, down from 62ml/kg @ 26 (i expect that) but my cholesterol is a little wacko yet my doc says no worries hdl is a little low 38, ldl is 68.
My question is: What the heck am I doing wrong? I am eating plenty of veggies not gorging, no alcohol. I could really use some advice....

You'll make it back to 235 for sure.
This what you do....trust me K.

Buy a Hybrid and ride 1 hours three times a week inside or outside. Go at a good clip but don't kill yourself....try a fast endurance pace.
www.bikesdirect.com for the best deals in the world.
This bike is fine for your purposes and a damn good deal
Buy a 62cm bike
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/stratford.htm

Buy this "Rolls" saddle..if the stock one is too soft(uncomfortable)
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?...broidery&vendorCode=SANMARCO&major=1&minor=18
Buy a Kurt Kinetic trainer...and use a slick on your mountain bike so you can ride indoors watching TV or a movie...blow a big fan on you and drink lots.
Kurt Kinetic Road Machine ..BY FAR #1
http://www.kurtkinetic.com/



Try this site and listen to Trance music on the trainer fro time to time.
http://www.di.fm/

Buy a good treadmill for your home ...stick it in front of the TV. Pacemaster is the best bang for the home buck.http://www.pacemaster.com/

If you are really serious about loosing weight you will find the money! Walk fast on a steep incline for 1 hour on non bike days. Do all the exercise in the pm after dinner Monday to Friday and any time on weekends.
Do some hiking ...as much on hills as you can.
Eat healthy.... Try to eat more raw foods and way less refined/processed foods as they are loaded with calories from fat. Remember a gram of fat had nine calories and a gram of carbs or protein has 4. Reduce your intake of simple sugars. Incorporate these things into a dietary LIFESTYLE CHANGE. YES...you can eat sweets and fatty stuff once in a while ..just limit it and think HEALTH.
DO NOT DIET.. Diets don't work because you cannot stay on them forever. Just be sensible with your sweets and fats. DO NOT restrict calories too much..but do it a little. If you do it too much your metabolism will actually slow.
Don't eat a damn think past 7pm...nothing. If you get terribly hungry then drink herb tea or diet soda without caffeine.

No alcohol...why?... have a glass of red wine from time to time. Beer is loaded with calories but wine isn't that bad...and it's a nice treat.
The big American curse is POP..SODA...Americas drink a TON and it a ton of calories and empty at that.
Try to avoid fast foods as much as you can...they are low in nutritional value and LOADED+++ with fat/CALORIES.

If you have not had a TSH(thyroid stimulating hormone) test done then get it done. You might be hypothyroid to a small degree....a lot of people are.

You will loose 2-3 pounds a week...keep it up.
Your VO2 max will climb A LOT as you loose weight. VO2 max is based on O2 assimilation per minute per kilo of body weight...loosing weight will bring it up a lot. The moderate exercise will help a bit too.

Your KEY will be to buy a bike, if you don't have one, a Kurt Kinetic trainer (best)......and treadmill for your home...it will cost ya a bit but your health, and life, are worth it!!!
This is a good investment for the rest of your life ...Money very well spent!

This plan will work bro...it's no BS hype for $$.

NEVER GIVE UP!

 

[jack73]

You'll make it back to 235 for sure.
This what you do....trust me K.

Buy a Hybrid and ride 1 hours three times a week inside or outside. Go at a good clip but don't kill yourself....try a fast endurance pace.
www.bikesdirect.com for the best deals in the world.
This bike is fine for your purposes and a damn good deal
Buy a 62cm bike
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/stratford.htm

Buy this "Rolls" saddle..if the stock one is too soft(uncomfortable)
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Rolls+Titanium+Saddle+no+embroidery&vendorCode=SANMARCO&major=1&minor=18
Buy a Kurt Kinetic trainer...and use a slick on your mountain bike so you can ride indoors watching TV or a movie...blow a big fan on you and drink lots.
Kurt Kinetic Road Machine ..BY FAR #1
http://www.kurtkinetic.com/



Try this site and listen to Trance music on the trainer fro time to time.
http://www.di.fm/

Buy a good treadmill for your home ...stick it in front of the TV. Pacemaster is the best bang for the home buck.http://www.pacemaster.com/

If you are really serious about loosing weight you will find the money! Walk fast on a steep incline for 1 hour on non bike days. Do all the exercise in the pm after dinner Monday to Friday and any time on weekends.
Do some hiking ...as much on hills as you can.
Eat healthy.... Try to eat more raw foods and way less refined/processed foods as they are loaded with calories from fat. Remember a gram of fat had nine calories and a gram of carbs or protein has 4. Reduce your intake of simple sugars. Incorporate these things into a dietary LIFESTYLE CHANGE. YES...you can eat sweets and fatty stuff once in a while ..just limit it and think HEALTH.
DO NOT DIET.. Diets don't work because you cannot stay on them forever. Just be sensible with your sweets and fats. DO NOT restrict calories too much..but do it a little. If you do it too much your metabolism will actually slow.
Don't eat a damn think past 7pm...nothing. If you get terribly hungry then drink herb tea or diet soda without caffeine.

No alcohol...why?... have a glass of red wine from time to time. Beer is loaded with calories but wine isn't that bad...and it's a nice treat.
The big American curse is POP..SODA...Americas drink a TON and it a ton of calories and empty at that.
Try to avoid fast foods as much as you can...they are low in nutritional value and LOADED+++ with fat/CALORIES.

If you have not had a TSH(thyroid stimulating hormone) test done then get it done. You might be hypothyroid to a small degree....a lot of people are.

You will loose 2-3 pounds a week...keep it up.
Your VO2 max will climb A LOT as you loose weight. VO2 max is based on O2 assimilation per minute per kilo of body weight...loosing weight will bring it up a lot. The moderate exercise will help a bit too.

Your KEY will be to buy a bike, if you don't have one, a Kurt Kinetic trainer (best)......and treadmill for your home...it will cost ya a bit but your health, and life, are worth it!!!
This is a good investment for the rest of your life ...Money very well spent!

This plan will work bro...it's no BS hype for $$.

NEVER GIVE UP!

Thanks appreciate the response. I'll give it a try.

 

[Jim R]

"DO NOT DIET.. Diets don't work because you cannot stay on them forever. Just be sensible with your sweets and fats. DO NOT restrict calories too much..but do it a little. If you do it too much your metabolism will actually slow."


I agree with most of the advice given by this poster but this paragraph is clearly wrong. Weight loss is dependent upon burning more calories per day then you consume. It is highly unlikely that you will lose weight without substantial long term calorie reduction (exercise alone rarely works). The most successful people at weight loss learn how to count calories and how choose foods properly. You will probably need to be well under 2000 calories per day to lose weight consistently. Fortunately, if you choose the proper foods, you can eat alot and still achieve this level of caloric intake.

For what it is worth, I am a Physician and I often advice my patients that are unable to lose weight to join a formal weight loss program like Weight Watchers. They have a very logical approach and are very inexpensive. Their basic concept is teaching you how to count calories and how to choose foods properly (these are learned skills that most of us don't have). Maybe even more importantly though, they require you to report in weekly to be weighed. Most of need someone looking over our shoulders like this to help us to maintain compliance. This might be a good next step if you are unsuccessful on your own. Good luck.

 

[benkoostra]

I'll weigh in. I lost 35+ lbs last year by just cutting portions and avoiding hidden fat and sugar, which means no dessert or cheese (for the most part). I eat a lot of oatmeal and got to like the feeling of being a little hungry and having my blood sugar in the right place. Also don't drink soda, even diet. try some flavored selzer instead. You may find that the fizz is more important to your satisfaction than sugar.
Anyway, it was easier than I thought it would be. Good luck.

 

[TiMan]

"DO NOT DIET.. Diets don't work because you cannot stay on them forever. Just be sensible with your sweets and fats. DO NOT restrict calories too much..but do it a little. If you do it too much your metabolism will actually slow."


I agree with most of the advice given by this poster but this paragraph is clearly wrong. Weight loss is dependent upon burning more calories per day then you consume. It is highly unlikely that you will lose weight without substantial long term calorie reduction (exercise alone rarely works). The most successful people at weight loss learn how to count calories and how choose foods properly. You will probably need to be well under 2000 calories per day to lose weight consistently. Fortunately, if you choose the proper foods, you can eat alot and still achieve this level of caloric intake.

This paragraph is full out ****. I am generally a very nice guy and never flame but now I am ******....not because my pride is injured because it isn't as this is just a forum, but because the good man that is trying to loose weight and keep it off and he was been given BS and actually dangerous for advice with this paragraph. Advice, that if followed, would cause this man to FAIL in his quest and probably end up heavier than he already is!

YOU DO NOT NEED SUBSTANTIAL CALORIE REDUCTION....and, by the way, did I ever say in my post that exercise alone will work....even though it certainly can and does! The advice I gave this man is spot on and involves moderate calorie reduction and exercise....but most importantly a lifestyle change!

OF COURSE it's all about a negative calorie balance for the day!
Yes you can eat "a lot' if you choose the right floods...of course..unrefined foods high in fiber low in saturated fat and hidden simply sugars.

This MAN is 6'5" tall buddy and 325 pounds... if he goes "well under under 2000 calories per day" like you say he will begin to slow his metabolism and he will set himself up for binging... and he will loose muscle mass and that will also slow his metabolism..he isn't some 5'4 inch 140 pound house wife.

Jack73....a pound of fat is 3500 calories...just try to burn 7000 calories a WEEK more than you consume and you'll loose 2 pounds per week which is great progress.

WEW...haven't been this ****** in a while.

Jack73 you need about 3700 calories a day if you are lightly active in lifestyle just to MAINTAIN your weight.
http://www.caloriecontrol.org/calcalsm.html

So you have not been calculating your caloric intake right bro.


JIM R
Physician, my ass and if you are you better educate yourself a bit more! "Weight Watchers" would be more ****** than me!

 

[frenchyge]

WEW...haven't been this ****** in a while.

Physician, my ass and if you are yoiu better educate yourself a bit more!

Why would you be ****** at that? He basically said the same thing you did (ie, reduce calories in conjunction with exercise), but instead of saying just reduce intake a little bit, but not too much, and don't diet but just restrict calories; he actually gave a specific numerical target to shoot for. Without knowing how much riding/exercising the OP is really doing, nor how regularly he's been keeping up the routine, I don't think that's an unrealistic target.

I was going to disagree with your recommended music plan (suggesting rock and roll instead), but if the previous comment set you off like this, then I won't bother.

 

[TiMan]

Why would you be ****** at that? He basically said the same thing you did (ie, reduce calories in conjunction with exercise), but instead of saying just reduce intake a little bit, but not too much, and don't diet but just restrict calories; he actually gave a specific numerical target to shoot for. Without knowing how much riding/exercising the OP is really doing, nor how regularly he's been keeping up the routine, I don't think that's an unrealistic target.

I was going to disagree with your recommended music plan (suggesting rock and roll instead), but if the previous comment set you off like this, then I won't bother.

He did not say basically what I said....not even close.
He wants the guy to go substantially below 2000 calories a day!!! I gave Jack good sound healthy advice...advice that will work and will result in permanent weight loss. HE gave dangerous advice that will hurt this man and make him fatter, if followed. Then he says he is a physician!
Check out this calculator to see what this man needs just to maintain his weight with light exercisehttp://www.caloriecontrol.org/calcalsm.html

 

[frenchyge]

I think it's pretty clear that if the calorie counter says he needs 3700 kcal/day to maintain his weight, and he's been eating 2500-2800 kcal/day for the past 3 years plus burning 3500-3800 kcal/wk through exercise without losing weight, there's something else going on here.

Jack73, are you currently on a calorie counting program to know that 2500-2800 kcal/day is your average intake? If not, I think that'd be a good first step. Back when you were 6'5" 235lbs and running and riding several times a week, you were probably accustomed to eating much more than that without weight gain.

 

[TiMan]

I think it's pretty clear that if the calorie counter says he needs 3700 kcal/day to maintain his weight, and he's been eating 2500-2800 kcal/day for the past 3 years plus burning 3500-3800 kcal/wk through exercise without losing weight, there's something else going on here.

Jack73, are you currently on a calorie counting program to know that 2500-2800 kcal/day is your average intake? If not, I think that'd be a good first step. Back when you were 6'5" 235lbs and running and riding several times a week, you were probably accustomed to eating much more than that without weight gain.

Yes, if he is really only consuming 25-2800 then you are right, there may be something going on here. Your advice is good...re: calorie counting program as is your follow up question

Jack, you may very well be missing calories counted per day if you are just estimating. It is either this or your thyroid is out of wack as I briefly mentioned.

 

[Quadsweep]

You'll make it back to 235 for sure.
This what you do....trust me K.

Buy a Hybrid and ride 1 hours three times a week inside or outside. Go at a good clip but don't kill yourself....try a fast endurance pace.
www.bikesdirect.com for the best deals in the world.
This bike is fine for your purposes and a damn good deal
Buy a 62cm bike
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/stratford.htm

Buy this "Rolls" saddle..if the stock one is too soft(uncomfortable)
http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Rolls+Titanium+Saddle+no+embroidery&vendorCode=SANMARCO&major=1&minor=18
Buy a Kurt Kinetic trainer...and use a slick on your mountain bike so you can ride indoors watching TV or a movie...blow a big fan on you and drink lots.
Kurt Kinetic Road Machine ..BY FAR #1
http://www.kurtkinetic.com/



Try this site and listen to Trance music on the trainer fro time to time.
http://www.di.fm/

Buy a good treadmill for your home ...stick it in front of the TV. Pacemaster is the best bang for the home buck.http://www.pacemaster.com/

If you are really serious about loosing weight you will find the money! Walk fast on a steep incline for 1 hour on non bike days. Do all the exercise in the pm after dinner Monday to Friday and any time on weekends.
Do some hiking ...as much on hills as you can.
Eat healthy.... Try to eat more raw foods and way less refined/processed foods as they are loaded with calories from fat. Remember a gram of fat had nine calories and a gram of carbs or protein has 4. Reduce your intake of simple sugars. Incorporate these things into a dietary LIFESTYLE CHANGE. YES...you can eat sweets and fatty stuff once in a while ..just limit it and think HEALTH.
DO NOT DIET.. Diets don't work because you cannot stay on them forever. Just be sensible with your sweets and fats. DO NOT restrict calories too much..but do it a little. If you do it too much your metabolism will actually slow.
Don't eat a damn think past 7pm...nothing. If you get terribly hungry then drink herb tea or diet soda without caffeine.

No alcohol...why?... have a glass of red wine from time to time. Beer is loaded with calories but wine isn't that bad...and it's a nice treat.
The big American curse is POP..SODA...Americas drink a TON and it a ton of calories and empty at that.
Try to avoid fast foods as much as you can...they are low in nutritional value and LOADED+++ with fat/CALORIES.

If you have not had a TSH(thyroid stimulating hormone) test done then get it done. You might be hypothyroid to a small degree....a lot of people are.

You will loose 2-3 pounds a week...keep it up.
Your VO2 max will climb A LOT as you loose weight. VO2 max is based on O2 assimilation per minute per kilo of body weight...loosing weight will bring it up a lot. The moderate exercise will help a bit too.

Your KEY will be to buy a bike, if you don't have one, a Kurt Kinetic trainer (best)......and treadmill for your home...it will cost ya a bit but your health, and life, are worth it!!!
This is a good investment for the rest of your life ...Money very well spent!

This plan will work bro...it's no BS hype for $$.

NEVER GIVE UP!

jack73, I once had a weight problem too so I know how you feel. I lost 60 pounds with an exercise program and healthy eating. As Timan said it is all about a lifestyle change.
Timan gives some of the most sound advice on this forum and here is yet another example. I think his advice to you is excellent. That Jim R gave very bad advice to you, which I think you know anyway.

 

[jack73]

Thank you all for your concern and advice. I have been to the doctor and been given a clean bill of healt other than my weight and low hdl (38) and the cardiologist that consulted on my nuc stress test said not to worry because my ldl was low. I went 14 minutes under bruce protocol and only stopped becuase the doc said I did not need to go any further.
When I had a submaximal test they estimated my VO2max @ 54ml/kg which I suppose ain't bad for 33 and being so damned heavy.
The main problems with my weight are my longer term health, hdl, and my joints.
The only thing I think could have any other effect is I am depakote for a focal motor siezure problem that developed after I fractured my T1. I've read it can cause difficulty in weight loss. But, I am doing everything right. Doing weight watchers, etc. (that is how I estimate my caloric intake).
I have thyroid tests, everything you can think of, my doctor and a cardiologist said I am fine but I need to loose weight.
I appreciate everyone's concern and advice. Thank you.

 

[SolarEnergy]

For what it is worth, I am a Physician and I often advice my patients that are unable to lose weight to join a formal weight loss program like Weight Watchers. They have a very logical approach and are very inexpensive. Their basic concept is teaching you how to count calories and how to choose foods properly (these are learned skills that most of us don't have).

I too think that loosing weight is more about being careful about both food intake and exercise training.

I heard about a cool little concept the other day on TV. And I gave it a try with a lady that I coached through a weight control program.

Basically, this concept promotes raising awareness about listening to our satiety feeling. Taking more time to eat, and then stop right in the middle of the plate, if we feel we're not hungry anymore.

Results? From 155 down to 125 in 14months with 3x30min of exercise per week. Between you and me, I don't think that 90min of exercise had made a significant difference...

 

[mikesbytes]

Hi Jack, like yourself, I'm a cross trainer too, although I've had to give up boxing due to a dickie shoulder. Have a look in my training log and have a laugh.

The other guys have given you heaps of information to consider, so I'll leave you with that. The main difference between me and most other cyclists is that my diet has a higher protein content and a slightly lower carb content. I get appox 1/3 of my calories from each of Protein / Carbs / Fat.

When you exercise you burn Glycriten (can never spell that word) which is stored with the muscles and then the body replenishes it and this is where you need to be careful, as you want the body to break down some fat to replenish, so avoid any quick calories during or straight after exercise, such as those recovery drinks.

Loosing weight is 80% about diet and 20% about exercise, but you need both to succeed. An important ascpect of dieting is to know exactly what you consuming, so you can make refinements, cutting out **** and adding more good stuff. I used www.fitday.com to log my eating for a while and leart a lot about my diet, I highly recommend that you do the same.

 

[jack73]

Here is a sample of my daily intake:
Breakfast
1.5 c of Raisin Bran or other cereal.
Coffee
16 oz water
banana

Lunch
turkey sandwhich
yogurt smoothie (blueberry and banana or mango)
diet pop

celery, pear, and/or apple

Dinner
4oz meat portion
veggies, steamed
maybe a potato or
rice

If I have anything sweet my wife will make muffins (low fat, hi fiber, rec.)
That is my typical dietary intake. Occasionly, I will have a 16 oz vanilla shake (once or twice a month.)
I do not drink regular soda, etoh, or chocolate. I do drink 16-24 oz of skim milk per day.

 

[mikesbytes]

You don't eat very much. It kind of looks like your body has adapted to what you do and you need to change things, so to get the body to change.

Diets are a personal thing and what works for one doesn't work for another. Others will advise differently to me and some will disagree entirely. Starving yourself never works.

Food wise, I'd try changing what you get your calories from;
- Many cereals are laced with sugar, check the contents and use ones with little sugar. Body builders eat rolled oats, but not for all.
- How about poached eggs for breakfast sometimes, increase in protein and fat at breakfast time?
- Have different fruit on different days, banana every day gets boring and while its a great source of potassium (thats why I eat heaps of them), its also high in carbs.
- Yogurt smoothie. I prefer to eat my calories, personal choice. If you are buying this from the shop, then its going to be laced with sugar. Probably got a very high calorie count. Pick up a low sugar (as distinct from low fat) yogurt at the supermarket and eat the fruit whole.
- Dinner. Eat more meat, reduce or replace the rice/potato with some salad. With the rice, check the contents. [excuse spelling] Basanti rice is heaps better than jasmine rice.

Remember, don't starve yourself, just eat more good food when you are hungry.

Watch for hidden calories, a 600ml bottle of coke has more calories in it than you burn in 1 boxing session.