Question - Mavic Open Pro CD rim 32 hole - rear

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jun 27, 8:10 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 27, 8:21 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 26, 4:11 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> > > > and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> > > > would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> > > > use my existing spokes.
>
> > > > Thanks. Ken
>
> > > > And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> > > > expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> > > > time.
>
> > > you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes.
>
> > Reusing 'old' spokes is no problem. The weak point of any wheel,
> > except from a poor build, is the rim..not the spokes. I reuse them all
> > the time w/o problem.
>
> > the open pro is
>
> > > excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
> > > I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
> > > at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>
> > OpenPro didn't exist 10 years ago, The Open SUP was excellent, the
> > next Mavic rim, the 'Reflex' was awful, lasted 1 year..Open Pro,
> > except for noisey eyelets and wedge, is an OK rim. All rims crack at
> > the sidewall when it gets thin from braking.
>
> yeah, well, I just bought and used mavic open series rims, never
> really noticed the difference in the names- as opposed to selling
> them, I just rode them and liked them a lot; certainly for the smooth
> braking surface. the point about not re-using old spokes was truing by
> hand as opposed to tensionmeter, is that you need the same feel with
> all the spokes, when they are used, even with a quick rim swap, I
> found the truing process harder and "less true" with grime collected
> on the threads for the nipples and finger-tips from spoke plucking-
> not to mention the grain and even overall length of a used spoke will
> interfere with that feel. Further, I find it difficult to believe that
> a used spoke which has it's own unique bend or shape and length
> according to it's previous life- will be able to instantly adapt to
> the new shape required of a new rim; meaning that I believe the used
> spoke will hold much of it's old shape and gradually adapt to the new
> shape following which, the wheel will no longer be in balance with all
> the forces that held it true- it will require frequent re-truing which
> is indicative of a weaker wheel.

Why, when you reuse spokes, you tape the new rim to the old and
transfer the spokes one at a time to the same relative hole into the
new rim so all the 'bends' will be the same. But if ya want new
spokes, get new spokes..not expensive afterall.

 

[Peter Cole]

Sandy wrote:
> Dans le message de
> news:[email protected],
> Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
> déclaré :
>> On Jun 27, 9:18 am, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Jun 27, 8:13 am, Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> kwalters wrote:
>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>>>> time.
>>>> Just another data point: I'm 225lb and have had good luck with
>>>> Open Pro's (although I think they're overpriced). I too have been
>>>> forced to re-rim with Mavic just to save the spokes. I don't think
>>>> there's any reason to re-spoke, since spokes should last through
>>>> many rims. FWIW, the MA-3 was known to have problems.
>>> overpriced ?
>> "overpriced" relative to the competition, yes.
>>
> Well, they're "priced", period. Until they fishhook money from your wallet,
> forcing you to buy something, it's willing buyer and willing seller. If
> they were really priced beyond what people would pay for them, they would be
> excess inventory. To blame marketing is to blame, at the same time, the
> failure of communication (marketing, by another term) on the part of Mavic's
> competitors. And none of this at all is a big deal. We're talking about
> riding a bike, right?

Terribly sorry for my sloppy use of the word "overpriced", I had no idea
we were maintaining such standards. To clear up any residual confusion,
I would replace that term with "poor value".

 

[Peter Cole]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Jun 27, 8:13 am, Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>> kwalters wrote:
>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>> use my existing spokes.
>>> Thanks. Ken
>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>> time.
>> Just another data point: I'm 225lb and have had good luck with Open
>> Pro's (although I think they're overpriced). I too have been forced to
>> re-rim with Mavic just to save the spokes. I don't think there's any
>> reason to re-spoke, since spokes should last through many rims. FWIW,
>> the MA-3 was known to have problems.
>
> overpriced ? think of what you are getting for that money, how many
> hours and hours of riding is bought with that money ? I don't know
> why, but I think us cyclists are about the cheapest folk on the
> planet- but really, when you look at cycling from the point of view of
> how far you can go and how many hours of enjoyment you can spend for
> that little money it's a bargain beyond compare, right up there with
> free water. just my opinion.
>

Who gets free water any more?

Trying not to rant, but there's a difference between price and value.
Consumable expenses on bikes do add up, especially if you're maintaining
a fleet (family bikes). I've ridden $70 rims and $30 rims and I'm pretty
sure that I enjoyed the experiences equally. I used to spend $50 a pop
on bike tires, but one day realizes how crazy that was. Since then I've
enjoyed $12 tires just as much. Ditto for chains. When did frugality
become a dirty word?

 

[[email protected]]

On Jun 28, 8:16 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jun 27, 8:10 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 27, 8:21 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 26, 4:11 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> > > > > and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> > > > > would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> > > > > use my existing spokes.
>
> > > > > Thanks. Ken
>
> > > > > And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> > > > > expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> > > > > time.
>
> > > > you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes.
>
> > > Reusing 'old' spokes is no problem. The weak point of any wheel,
> > > except from a poor build, is the rim..not the spokes. I reuse them all
> > > the time w/o problem.
>
> > > the open pro is
>
> > > > excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
> > > > I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
> > > > at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>
> > > OpenPro didn't exist 10 years ago, The Open SUP was excellent, the
> > > next Mavic rim, the 'Reflex' was awful, lasted 1 year..Open Pro,
> > > except for noisey eyelets and wedge, is an OK rim. All rims crack at
> > > the sidewall when it gets thin from braking.
>
> > yeah, well, I just bought and used mavic open series rims, never
> > really noticed the difference in the names- as opposed to selling
> > them, I just rode them and liked them a lot; certainly for the smooth
> > braking surface. the point about not re-using old spokes was truing by
> > hand as opposed to tensionmeter, is that you need the same feel with
> > all the spokes, when they are used, even with a quick rim swap, I
> > found the truing process harder and "less true" with grime collected
> > on the threads for the nipples and finger-tips from spoke plucking-
> > not to mention the grain and even overall length of a used spoke will
> > interfere with that feel. Further, I find it difficult to believe that
> > a used spoke which has it's own unique bend or shape and length
> > according to it's previous life- will be able to instantly adapt to
> > the new shape required of a new rim; meaning that I believe the used
> > spoke will hold much of it's old shape and gradually adapt to the new
> > shape following which, the wheel will no longer be in balance with all
> > the forces that held it true- it will require frequent re-truing which
> > is indicative of a weaker wheel.
>
> Why, when you reuse spokes, you tape the new rim to the old and
> transfer the spokes one at a time to the same relative hole into the
> new rim so all the 'bends' will be the same. But if ya want new
> spokes, get new spokes..not expensive afterall.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

yup; been there done that

 

[A Muzi]

> "kwalters" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Can you speak to the longevity of DT rr?

Tim McTeague wrote:
> For a 160 lb rider would the single or double eyelet be better I wonder.
> Jim Young advises single for riders under 180 but I wonder if the double
> would be better insurance against cracking. What's 40 more grams?

Or a Velocity Aerohead O/C. They don't need no steenking ferrules. The
offset design is tough, 400g $60.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[jim beam]

Colin Campbell wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>>>
>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
>>>> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
>>>> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
>>>> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>>>>
>>> I had a beautiful pair of Open Pro blue anodized rims on my bike. I
>>> had a spoke break, and "semi-trued" the wheel so I could get to the
>>> bike shop. The owner congratulated me on my work, but said there was
>>> a crack at one spoke hole.
>>>
>>> By then, Mavic had stopped making the blue rims, so I got talked into
>>> a silver one. Soon, spokes were popping, and after about the third
>>> try at fixing the problem, we looked really closely at the rim. No
>>> fewer than ten of the spoke holes showed cracks!
>>>
>>> I ended up with a Velocity Areo blue rim in the rear - not an exact
>>> match in color, but close enough, and no problems. The Mavic rim
>>> soldiers on in front....
>>>
>>> By the way, I was a 190 lb rider at the time; I'm now a sub-180 lb
>>> rider.
>>
>> and the question to both of you is, what was your spoke tension? did
>> you use a tensiometer?
> I used a reputable local bike shop, which had previously built me
> bulletproof wheels. (There was a change of ownership, and the previous
> owner built the original Mavic Open Pro blue / Campy Record / DT Swiss
> wheel. Other people worked on the silver / Campy / DT wheel.)

ooookaaaay, so did /they/ use a tensiometer???

this is not rocket surgery. use of instrumentation in mechanical
assembly is well established. if you just crank and crank the lug nuts
on your car, the studs will eventually break. so the manufacturer gives
you a torque spec. and you use a torque wrench!

bike wheel? tensiometer. $60. simple.

 

[Johnny Sunset]

On Jun 28, 8:05 pm, "jim beam" wrote:
> ...
> this is not rocket surgery. use of instrumentation in mechanical
> assembly is well established. if you just crank and crank the lug nuts
> on your car, the studs will eventually break. so the manufacturer gives
> you a torque spec. and you use a torque wrench!...

Do you carry a torque wrench in the motor vehicle, or re-torque at
home after changing a flat on the road?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jun 27, 5:54 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
> "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dans le message de
> >news:[email protected],
> > Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a
> > déclaré :
> > > On Jun 27, 1:16 pm, "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> Dans le message
> > >> denews:[email protected], Ozark
> > >> Bicycle <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis
> > >> a déclaré :
>
> > >>> On Jun 27, 12:21 pm, "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>> Dans le message
> > >>>> denews:[email protected], Ozark
> > >>>> Bicycle <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et
> > >>>> puis a déclaré :
>
> > >>>>> On Jun 27, 9:18 am, [email protected] wrote:
> > >>>>>> On Jun 27, 8:13 am, Peter Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>>> kwalters wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> > >>>>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> > >>>>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> > >>>>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>
> > >>>>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>
> > >>>>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> > >>>>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> > >>>>>>>> time.
>
> > >>>>>>> Just another data point: I'm 225lb and have had good luck with
> > >>>>>>> Open Pro's (although I think they're overpriced). I too have
> > >>>>>>> been forced to re-rim with Mavic just to save the spokes. I
> > >>>>>>> don't think there's any reason to re-spoke, since spokes should
> > >>>>>>> last through many rims. FWIW, the MA-3 was known to have
> > >>>>>>> problems.
>
> > >>>>>> overpriced ?
>
> > >>>>> "overpriced" relative to the competition, yes.
>
> > >>>> Well, they're "priced", period.
>
> > >>> Quite. And "priced" higher than comparable rims from other rim
> > >>> makers. Taking a wild-ass guess, I would say that is what Mr. Cole
> > >>> meant when he wrote "I think they're ["they" being Mavic rims]
> > >>> overpriced.".
>
> > >> Still not right. Your first sentence leaves one with the logical
> > >> conclusion that they are higher priced, only. Something like
> > >> hamburger, where 20% fat is cheaper than 10% fat. Value judgments
> > >> come in when you personally decide that the higher price is not
> > >> justifiable for your budget. Reality shows that prices will decline
> > >> when the price asked is higher than what people are willing to pay
> > >> (or when they are compelled to pay, as in a monopoly situation).
> > >> That is when they are overpriced, and remain in inventory until
> > >> adjusted downwards to a level where there is a parallel substitute.
> > >> It's economics, not evangelism.-
>
> > > Lesseee....Peter Cole opined that Mavic rims are "overpriced". I
> > > explain the idea to another poster (IOW, that they are "overpriced"
> > > relative to the competition) and *you* get your chamois all in a wad.
> > > Why is that? Do you hold stock in Salomon? Just trying to justify you
> > > own purchases? Feeling the need to defend French interests? Something
> > > else?
>
> > Silly to accuse me of having a background interest. But you still missthe
> > difference. Calling something overpriced, when that product sells
> > satisfactorily to the seller's expectations, amounts to an opinion, _poorly_
> > based on available facts. It's like saying that a Corvette is an overpriced
> > automobile. The narrow, retrenched, pseudo-popular "wisdom" in this forum
> > fails constantly to meet up with the world. Every sort of grouch, retro- or
> > not, gets to spout off, but pointing out facts to those who inquire seems a
> > fair thing to do. For my experience, this forum regales in touting cliquish
> > opinions as facts and building a whole "myth and lore" from them. Like
> > about connecting links. I think there's a new bit of whole cloth beingspun
> > there....
>
> Yarn is spun, cloth is woven.
>
> By the numbers:
> Mavic rims are not superior to all rims out there.
> Many rims are superior to Mavic rims.
> Many rims superior to Mavic rims cost less. (perhaps all)

Some cost more-DT

Mavic rims are fine if you build correctly with them..as are DT,
Velocity and others. I don't think $60 for a rim is outrageous at all,
when you consider replacement rims for wheelsouttaboxes are so much
more. If ya don't like them don't use them. if you love Sun(I don't),
then use them..easy to find.

> By this definition of over-priced, Mavis rims are over-priced.
>
> By Mavic's definition of over-priced, their rims are not overpriced.
>
> --
> Michael Press

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jun 27, 11:13 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 26, 3:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
> >>and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
> >>would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
> >>use my existing spokes.
>
> >>Thanks. Ken
>
> >>And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
> >>expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
> >>time.
>
> > BTW-Just built another set of DT rr 1.1(dbl eyelet) wheels last night
> > and once more I am very impressed by their quality..well worth the $5
> > more than OpenPro..wish they made a 36h tho-
>
> Can you speak to the longevity of DT rr?
> Ken

Since the rims are relatively new, no but the ease of build suggests
that they are great rims..but no 36h, unfortunately.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Jun 28, 4:12 am, "Tim McTeague" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "kwalters" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > Can you speak to the longevity of DT rr?
> > Ken
>
> For a 160 lb rider would the single or double eyelet be better I wonder.
> Jim Young advises single for riders under 180 but I wonder if the double
> would be better insurance against cracking. What's 40 more grams?
>
> Tim McTeague

Neither and both. There is nothing magic about double eyelet nor
anything tragic about single or no eyelet..depends completely on the
rim.

Single eyelet DT, Velocity and Mavic are fine...double eyelet Mavic
and DT are too..as are all the no eyelet Velocity rims. MUST design
the wheel according to the rider and their needs. Don't make poor
choices here..like too few spokes, thin spokes on a light rim for a
'heavy(in terms of weight OR technique)' rider. No need for a robust
wheel for a light(like buck 20 types) rider as well. THEN build well,
proper tension, stress relieved, etc...

Remember small differences in rim weight and spoke number equal BIG
differences in wheel reliability..like 36h vs 32, 2 cross vs 3, a 420
gram rim vs a 450 gram one. Add 100 grams to a wheel, get big
advantages to wheel reliability. Remember the wheel, along with all
this other bike stuff is there to get you there. Performance gains or
loses depends mostly on the rider, not the bike.

 

[jim beam]

Johnny Sunset wrote:
> On Jun 28, 8:05 pm, "jim beam" wrote:
>> ...
>> this is not rocket surgery. use of instrumentation in mechanical
>> assembly is well established. if you just crank and crank the lug nuts
>> on your car, the studs will eventually break. so the manufacturer gives
>> you a torque spec. and you use a torque wrench!...
>
> Do you carry a torque wrench in the motor vehicle, or re-torque at
> home after changing a flat on the road?
>

depends on whether i intend on getting a flat or not.

 

[Colin Campbell]

jim beam wrote:
> Colin Campbell wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
>>>>> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
>>>>> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
>>>>> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>>>>>
>>>> I had a beautiful pair of Open Pro blue anodized rims on my bike. I
>>>> had a spoke break, and "semi-trued" the wheel so I could get to the
>>>> bike shop. The owner congratulated me on my work, but said there
>>>> was a crack at one spoke hole.
>>>>
>>>> By then, Mavic had stopped making the blue rims, so I got talked
>>>> into a silver one. Soon, spokes were popping, and after about the
>>>> third try at fixing the problem, we looked really closely at the
>>>> rim. No fewer than ten of the spoke holes showed cracks!
>>>>
>>>> I ended up with a Velocity Areo blue rim in the rear - not an exact
>>>> match in color, but close enough, and no problems. The Mavic rim
>>>> soldiers on in front....
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I was a 190 lb rider at the time; I'm now a sub-180 lb
>>>> rider.
>>>
>>> and the question to both of you is, what was your spoke tension? did
>>> you use a tensiometer?
>> I used a reputable local bike shop, which had previously built me
>> bulletproof wheels. (There was a change of ownership, and the
>> previous owner built the original Mavic Open Pro blue / Campy Record /
>> DT Swiss wheel. Other people worked on the silver / Campy / DT wheel.)
>
> ooookaaaay, so did /they/ use a tensiometer???
>
> this is not rocket surgery. use of instrumentation in mechanical
> assembly is well established. if you just crank and crank the lug nuts
> on your car, the studs will eventually break. so the manufacturer gives
> you a torque spec. and you use a torque wrench!
>
> bike wheel? tensiometer. $60. simple.
You have a valid point, but I'm just a customer, and don't even know
what to ask in this area. But, in my opinion, there should be some
expectation of successful results when an established shop builds a
wheel for a customer.

And there has been a good deal of posting about Mavic rim problems here,
hasn't there?

 

[jim beam]

Colin Campbell wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> Colin Campbell wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Jun 26, 5:51 pm, kwalters <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> Adequate for a 185# rider who slows down for RR tracks
>>>>>>> and dodges potholes? Open to other possibilities, but
>>>>>>> would like to keep the Open Pro profile so I can hopefully
>>>>>>> use my existing spokes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks. Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, any guess as to what kind of rim longevity I might
>>>>>>> expect? Just went thru an MA-3 in a dishearteningly short
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you aren't going to help things re-using old spokes. the open pro is
>>>>>> excellent but a bit weak, I used to ride them about 10 years ago when
>>>>>> I was about 150lbs, and they would last up to a year before cracking
>>>>>> at the rim from tire psi (100-110)
>>>>>>
>>>>> I had a beautiful pair of Open Pro blue anodized rims on my bike.
>>>>> I had a spoke break, and "semi-trued" the wheel so I could get to
>>>>> the bike shop. The owner congratulated me on my work, but said
>>>>> there was a crack at one spoke hole.
>>>>>
>>>>> By then, Mavic had stopped making the blue rims, so I got talked
>>>>> into a silver one. Soon, spokes were popping, and after about the
>>>>> third try at fixing the problem, we looked really closely at the
>>>>> rim. No fewer than ten of the spoke holes showed cracks!
>>>>>
>>>>> I ended up with a Velocity Areo blue rim in the rear - not an exact
>>>>> match in color, but close enough, and no problems. The Mavic rim
>>>>> soldiers on in front....
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, I was a 190 lb rider at the time; I'm now a sub-180 lb
>>>>> rider.
>>>>
>>>> and the question to both of you is, what was your spoke tension?
>>>> did you use a tensiometer?
>>> I used a reputable local bike shop, which had previously built me
>>> bulletproof wheels. (There was a change of ownership, and the
>>> previous owner built the original Mavic Open Pro blue / Campy Record
>>> / DT Swiss wheel. Other people worked on the silver / Campy / DT
>>> wheel.)
>>
>> ooookaaaay, so did /they/ use a tensiometer???
>>
>> this is not rocket surgery. use of instrumentation in mechanical
>> assembly is well established. if you just crank and crank the lug nuts
>> on your car, the studs will eventually break. so the manufacturer gives
>> you a torque spec. and you use a torque wrench!
>>
>> bike wheel? tensiometer. $60. simple.
> You have a valid point, but I'm just a customer, and don't even know
> what to ask in this area. But, in my opinion, there should be some
> expectation of successful results when an established shop builds a
> wheel for a customer.

i would expect "good results" from a book purporting to be a technical
resource on wheelbuilding, but i've been disappointed too.

bottom line, there's a lot of misinformation out there, most importantly
spoke tension "as high as the rim can bear". if your lbs is ignoring
the spoke tension spec of the rim manufacturer, as they clearly have
been, then you need to look elsewhere. just because a shop /tells/ you
they're good, doesn't mean they /are/ good.

>
> And there has been a good deal of posting about Mavic rim problems here,
> hasn't there?

and a lot of sheeple voice criticism essentially because of the fun of
jumping on a particular bandwagon. i've built with alex, campy, araya,
ambrosio, and a whole bunch of different mavics, and for the high end
stuff, you'll be hard pressed to notice much difference. but i like
mavic because they weld the seams, they machine the braking surfaces and
they actually bother to invest in the research that have brought us
these [and other] improvements.