Question on mountain bikes

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Wild Wind, May 29, 2004.

  1. Wild Wind

    Wild Wind Guest

    A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
    bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
    the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
    as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.

    It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

    --
    Akin

    aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk
     
    Tags:


  2. On Sat, 29 May 2004 12:46:44 +0100, Wild Wind wrote:

    > A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
    > bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
    > the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
    > as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.
    >
    > It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    > often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    > *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    > attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    > argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    > *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    > all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?


    At least...

    1) Stuff can get caught between the wheels and the mudguards, which slows
    you down.

    2) If your front mudguard gets caught up in your wheel, you can get thrown
    over the handlebars. This is more likely on a mountain-bike because of the
    amount of abuse they get, and because of the amount of branches etc...
    that might be on the tracks.

    On the other hand, when I was about 12 I got mud in both eyes at once,
    steered off the road, somersaulted over the handlebars and landed flat on
    my back. Ouch!

    AC
     
  3. vernon levy

    vernon levy Guest


    > >
    > > It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    > > often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    > > *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    > > attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    > > argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    > > *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    > > all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?


    You've nearly answered your own question...

    Muddy terrain can quickly enlarge a tyre's girth to the extent that it will
    fill the gap between the tyre and the mudgard causing an amazing amount of
    drag and damage to the mudgard as it gets dragged forwards.

    *Real* mudguards for mountain bikes are those the get affixed to the seat
    post and down tube of the frame giving ample clearance for mud and gunge.

    Another poster has pointed out the increased likelihood of getting the
    mudgard stays snagged.
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Wild Wind wrote:
    > A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
    > bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
    > the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
    > as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.


    And also get in the way of wheel changing/checking and add unnecessary
    complication.

    > It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    > often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    > *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    > attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    > argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    > *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    > all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?


    AC has given the reasons serious off-roaders prefer not to use them.
    Manufacturers also save money. In fact that's the main reason MTBs sold
    for every-day road use don' have them, coupled with the fact that
    young/trendy people think they look "uncool" so marketing is easier
    without them.

    ~PB
     
  5. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    "Wild Wind" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    > often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    > *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    > attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    > argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    > *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    > all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?


    Also they get sold without them fitted and people can't be bothered to buy
    and fit them after they've bought their new bike.

    --
    Simon Mason
    Anlaby
    East Yorkshire.
    53°44'N 0°26'W
    http://www.simonmason.karoo.net
     
  6. MSA

    MSA Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, pclemantine{remove_fruit}
    @biggs.tc says...
    > It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    > > often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    > > *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    > > attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    > > argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    > > *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    > > all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?

    >


    A lot of cyclists think they look uncool. Also, with so many variations
    of front and rear suspension it would be difficult to manufacture a pair
    that would be universal fitting.


    --
    Mark (MSA)
    This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling
    of contents may have occurred during transmission
     
  7. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Wild Wind
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
    > bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
    > the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
    > as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.
    >
    > It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    > often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    > *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    > attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    > argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    > *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    > all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?


    Is it not obvious?

    No, I suppose not.

    Because, if you're dealing with large amounts of mud, mudguards clog up
    and you can't cycle. The reason for the bits of plastic attached to the
    seatpost is that they do deflect a surprisingly large proportion of the
    mud and you don't get home with a brown stripe up your back, without
    clogging up. The things that go under your downtube are useless. I
    haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
    thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
    haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
    going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
    muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
    harassment.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    The trouble with Simon is that he only opens his mouth to change feet.
    ;; of me, by a 'friend'
     
  8. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Simon Brooke wrote:
    > The things that go under your downtube are useless. I
    > haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
    > thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
    > haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
    > going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
    > muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
    > harassment.


    The things under your fork crown work quite well and I disagree about not
    worth it in muddy weather. Crudguards as they are called do keep a
    significant amount of mud and water off you which can make a big difference if
    its cold and wet.

    Tony
     
  9. Mark South

    Mark South Guest

    "Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > in message <[email protected]>, Wild Wind
    > ('[email protected]') wrote:
    >
    > > A few days ago, I asked a question about why road
    > > bikes weren't often seen with mudguards, and I got
    > > the quite reasonable reply that roadies want to go
    > > as fast as possible, and mudguards slowed them down.
    > >
    > > It got me to thinking about why *mountain bikes* weren't
    > > often seen with mudguards - and I'm talking about
    > > *real* mudguards, not those bits of plastic that are
    > > attached to the seat post. I don't think the speed
    > > argument holds here, and besides MTB riders would
    > > *benefit* from guards since they have to go across
    > > all sorts of muddy terrain. So - why not?


    I believe that it's mostly down to fashion. On the continent it's common to see
    serious MTBers riding bikes wearing guards during the non-summer seasons.

    > Because, if you're dealing with large amounts of mud, mudguards clog up
    > and you can't cycle.


    In Cambridgeshire, the FORKS clog up and you can't cycle. Guess why there are a
    lot of brick kilns about?

    > The reason for the bits of plastic attached to the
    > seatpost is that they do deflect a surprisingly large proportion of the
    > mud and you don't get home with a brown stripe up your back, without
    > clogging up.


    Amen brother Simon.

    > The things that go under your downtube are useless.


    Totally. They only stop stuff that would have stuck to your downtube.

    > I haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
    > thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
    > haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
    > going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
    > muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
    > harassment.


    No, the front guards that mount under the fork crown really stop A LOT of mud
    and don't clog easily.

    They especially stop the worst parts of the mud, which is the bits that fly
    forward and upwards off the front wheel and are stopped by air resistance to
    allow your mouth to catch up when you are going quickly.
    --

    -- M.
     
  10. Mark South

    Mark South Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Simon Brooke wrote:
    > > The things that go under your downtube are useless. I
    > > haven't tried the things that go under the fork crown (actually, it's
    > > thirty years since I've had any mudguards on any of my bikes, but I
    > > haven't tried them on anyone else's bikes either). After all, if you're
    > > going mountain biking in muddy weather you're going to get seriously
    > > muddy anyway, and the difference a mudguard would make isn't worth the
    > > harassment.

    >
    > The things under your fork crown work quite well and I disagree about not
    > worth it in muddy weather. Crudguards as they are called do keep a
    > significant amount of mud and water off you which can make a big difference if
    > its cold and wet.


    Damn! I just agreed with you AGAIN!

    :)
    --

    -- M.
     
  11. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Mark South wrote:
    >
    > Damn! I just agreed with you AGAIN!
    >
    > :)


    No you didn't

    Tony ;-)
     
  12. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Mark South wrote:
    >
    > In Cambridgeshire, the FORKS clog up and you can't cycle. Guess why there
    > are a lot of brick kilns about?
    >


    Tell me about it. One of the main reasons for switching to disk brakes was
    because the V's trapped the mud and helped the clogging. Had an instance once
    where the mud stopped the brake arms moving together. Fortunately the mud
    also caused enough drag to slow me down and stop me.

    BTW I think its not the mud but the subtle blend of mud and dried grass to
    bind it all together.

    Tony
     
  13. Mark South

    Mark South Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Mark South wrote:
    > >
    > > In Cambridgeshire, the FORKS clog up and you can't cycle. Guess why there
    > > are a lot of brick kilns about?
    > >

    > Tell me about it. One of the main reasons for switching to disk brakes was
    > because the V's trapped the mud and helped the clogging. Had an instance once
    > where the mud stopped the brake arms moving together. Fortunately the mud
    > also caused enough drag to slow me down and stop me.


    Clearly I do not need to tell you about it!

    > BTW I think its not the mud but the subtle blend of mud and dried grass to
    > bind it all together.


    The grass may help. If one wants brick bicycle wheels one only has to shove
    them in the kiln after a few miles on the bridleway.

    One January I carried my 20 lb MTB the last 2 miles home. The wheels would no
    longer turn at all. And the bike + mud weighed 40 lbs when I got home and
    weighed it.
    --
    Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
     
  14. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Mark South wrote:
    >
    > The grass may help. If one wants brick bicycle wheels one only has to shove
    > them in the kiln after a few miles on the bridleway.
    >


    The local term is, I believe, "mud polos"

    Tony

    PS A small pointing trowel in the toolkit is useful if you need to excavate
    your wheels and forks on a ride.
     
  15. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >> The things under your fork crown work quite well and I disagree about not

    > worth it in muddy weather. Crudguards as they are called do keep a
    > significant amount of mud and water off you which can make a big

    difference if

    I fitted the steerer tube type last winter and am very impressed. The DT
    type are great for keeping flung dung from hitting the riders face, not
    pleasant, but the fuller ones give protection to the riders jacket which
    means it doesn't need washing so often and with the finnicky nature of
    laundering good quality jackets this is quite a plus point.
    I started using a rear Crud Guard years ago and it was perceived as very
    uncool, so what, my shorts and saddles have all benefitted from not being
    ground away by wet grit as well as increasing my comfort.
    --
    Regards,
    Pete
     
  16. Simon Brooke

    Simon Brooke Guest

    in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
    ('[email protected]') wrote:

    > BTW I think its not the mud but the subtle blend of mud and dried
    > grass to bind it all together.


    AKA 'daub', very popular for building houses in that part of the world.

    --
    [email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
    "The result is a language that... not even its mother could
    love. Like the camel, Common Lisp is a horse designed by
    committee. Camels do have their uses."
    ;; Scott Fahlman, 7 March 1995
     
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