Questions about Campy freewheel hubs



"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 18, 12:02 pm, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Some questions for you Campy experts.
> >
> > I have several retro road frames with 130mm rear spacing and some NOS
> > Suntour Ultra Winner 7 speed freewheels that I want to use on them.

These
> > will be used for casual retro rides.
> >
> > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but

that
> > would defeat my purpose.
> >
> > I have some after market rear axles that will allow me to convert my

Campy
> > 120/126mm hubs to 130mm but there's the possibility of damaging the
> > dropout from a broken rear axle.

>
> usually the other way around. A not aligned dropout encouageing a
> broken axle.
> >
> > There seems to be over a dozen variations of post R/NR/SR Campy FW hub
> > models.
> >
> > I've seen a few 130mm wide NOS Campy FW hubs for sale. Is there any
> > difference other than cosmetics between the 12+ different freewheel

hub
> > models?

>
> Nope. best is to 'superspce' it, that is, just enough axle on the
> right side to support the freewheel, no more. Don't use an 8s
> freewheel, 7 seems good. After moving spacers around to get the axle
> length right, measure the center to flange, calculate spoke length,
> build wheel.
> >
> > Are the Campy MTB hubs any beefier or are they just road hubs with

rubber
> > covers over the QR lever?

>
> Same hubs.
> >
> > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but

that
> > would defeat my purpose.
> >
> > Chas.

>


Thanks for the info on the hubs. I suspected that they were pretty much
all the same except for cosmetics and minor things like rubber seals on
the dust caps of some models.

I agree about dropout alignment putting stress on axles. I have access to
frame and fork alignment equipment. I check the frame, fork and dropout
alignment on all of the frames I assemble and adjust them to within .010"
(.25mm).

I have several pairs of NOS sewup rims that I'm going to build up - Super
Champ Arc-en-Ciel and Mavic SL330 rims. I don't plan on doing any serious
rides with these classic babies.

Chas.
 
"* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> That was really one of my original questions - re-phrased, are 130mm
> C-record or Campy MTB FW hubs any better than just putting a longer axle
> and spacers in a standard Campy FW hub.
>
> I'm going to build some "vanity" wheels with Campy FW hubs and sewups for
> flat, short rides on smooth roads. I don't break spokes and the only axles
> I've bent were on cheap 1970s Bike Boom wheels or from riding off road.


Wow if you actually bent an axle. I never bent one. I would think they
would
break first because of the threading.

>
> I have several well built rear clincher wheels with 130mm Shimano 7 and 8
> speed cassettes that I plan to use for any serious ride I might take on
> these bikes.
>
> I can shift them quite well with standard derailleurs and downtube
> friction shifters although I did put a set of Suntour 7 speed index levers
> and a Shimano STI derailleur on one of my 7 speed bikes. It works great
> but I fear that it's going to make me lazy.


Yes, I believe it, I also enjoyed the friction shifting and got to where I
could
shift pretty fast. But the index is a no brainer...not looking for that
sweetspot
between gears anymore.

>
> Because of the retro aspect, these bikes are going to be full Campy
> whereas all of my other rides are frankenbikes, built with different
> brands of components to suite my whims at the time.
>
> Aside from the cost of Campy freehubs and cassettes, I already have a box
> full of Shimano cassettes and spare cogs plus lots of FWs so I don't want
> to get started on a new system.
>
> I check the frame, fork and dropout alignment on an alignment table on all
> of the bikes I assemble. I adjust them to within .010" (.25mm). It makes
> for better handling and shifting bikes.
> Chas.


Sounds like you're on the right track.
I'll tell you, just from experience, after pumping out 60-100 miles of hard
training, you're not thinking of what brand X you have, just that it works.
good luck with your wheels,
-tom
 
On Apr 19, 6:40 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 18, 2:15 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 18, 11:02 am, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > Some questions for you Campy experts.

>
> > > I have several retro road frames with 130mm rear spacing and some NOS
> > > Suntour Ultra Winner 7 speed freewheels that I want to use on them. These
> > > will be used for casual retro rides.

>
> > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > I have some after market rear axles that will allow me to convert my Campy
> > > 120/126mm hubs to 130mm but there's the possibility of damaging the
> > > dropout from a broken rear axle.

>
> > > There seems to be over a dozen variations of post R/NR/SR Campy FW hub
> > > models.

>
> > > I've seen a few 130mm wide NOS Campy FW hubs for sale. Is there any
> > > difference other than cosmetics between the 12+ different freewheel hub
> > > models?

>
> > > Are the Campy MTB hubs any beefier or are they just road hubs with rubber
> > > covers over the QR lever?

>
> > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > As long as you don't break axles, get yourself a Campy Record hubset.
> > I believe the old SR/NR groups used the same hub, so get the one with
> > the black clip in the middle that covers the oil port. With grade 25
> > bearings, it will be smooth.

>
> > Alternatively, if you want more "polish," see if you can find yourself
> > a C-Record hubset.

>
> > If you are strong or heavy, then a freewheel-style hub may not be the
> > best thing to get as you will break axles. If that is the case, then
> > find get yourself a good cassette hub. Good Luck!

>
> This, along with sleepy winkie on road bikes, is a popular
> misconception. I use ONLY frewheel hubs and with the winter and a
> gooned up right knee, I'm on the right side of a .1 offa ton. Alingned
> dropouts, riding smart, proper axle length....and titanium axles, all
> help. haven't broken an axle for years.



Come on Peter, you can do better than that. On the one hand you
dismiss my claim that only freewheel hubs break as a "popular
misconception." Yet you clearly state "haven't broken an axle FOR
YEARS." Obviously, you HAVE broken fw hub axles. What's up? You are a
*PRO* mechanic, whom I presumed checked to see that your dropouts were
aligned and that you had used a proper axle length. Further, we all
know you "ride smart." So what did cause that AXLE TO BREAK?!

In my case, I broke 3 axles, 1 Campy; 2 Wheel Mfg., on my Campy C-
Record fw rear hub. I never had the dropouts checked for alignment, so
that could have been the cause. Then again, I've used both a Shimano
DA 9 and Campy Chorus rear cassette hub on my bike, and have NOT had a
rear axle break. Is it possible that a cassette rear hub, especially
the Shimano with the outboard bearing, may be stronger and allow me to
just ride without worrying about an axle breaking?
 
On Apr 19, 9:49 am, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 18, 12:02 pm, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Some questions for you Campy experts.

>
> > > I have several retro road frames with 130mm rear spacing and some NOS
> > > Suntour Ultra Winner 7 speed freewheels that I want to use on them.

> These
> > > will be used for casual retro rides.

>
> > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but

> that
> > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > I have some after market rear axles that will allow me to convert my

> Campy
> > > 120/126mm hubs to 130mm but there's the possibility of damaging the
> > > dropout from a broken rear axle.

>
> > usually the other way around. A not aligned dropout encouageing a
> > broken axle.

>
> > > There seems to be over a dozen variations of post R/NR/SR Campy FW hub
> > > models.

>
> > > I've seen a few 130mm wide NOS Campy FW hubs for sale. Is there any
> > > difference other than cosmetics between the 12+ different freewheel

> hub
> > > models?

>
> > Nope. best is to 'superspce' it, that is, just enough axle on the
> > right side to support the freewheel, no more. Don't use an 8s
> > freewheel, 7 seems good. After moving spacers around to get the axle
> > length right, measure the center to flange, calculate spoke length,
> > build wheel.

>
> > > Are the Campy MTB hubs any beefier or are they just road hubs with

> rubber
> > > covers over the QR lever?

>
> > Same hubs.

>
> > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but

> that
> > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > Chas.

>
> Thanks for the info on the hubs. I suspected that they were pretty much
> all the same except for cosmetics and minor things like rubber seals on
> the dust caps of some models.
>
> I agree about dropout alignment putting stress on axles. I have access to
> frame and fork alignment equipment. I check the frame, fork and dropout
> alignment on all of the frames I assemble and adjust them to within .010"
> (.25mm).
>
> I have several pairs of NOS sewup rims that I'm going to build up - Super
> Champ Arc-en-Ciel and Mavic SL330 rims. I don't plan on doing any serious
> rides with these classic babies.
>
> Chas.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Good idea to do the 130mm 7sp thing on these rims. I have a set of SC
Record du Mondes that I laced to my old Maillard 700 HF front hub that
came with my Peugeot, but used a 36H Veloce freehub in the back
because I have 10s ergos. Even with 36 spokes, I can't keep it true
with that uneven tension. The rim seems very soft.

With copper-tied spoke crossings and tan-wall tires, the wheels sure
look pretty on my PX-10, though. Nice for a ride on smooth roads.
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Apr 18, 9:40 pm, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestions. I'm breaking my frankenbike tradition on one
> > of these frames; it's going to be all mid 80s Campy stuff.
> >

>
> Once upon a time, "Polynesian" restaurant/bars served a drink (Rum
> based??) called the Suffering *******. Now, the term will make me
> think of you on that bike..... ;-)


- 1 1/2 oz rum
- 1 oz overproof rum
- 3/4 oz orange curacao liqueur
- 1/2 oz orgeat syrup
- 1 oz fresh lime juice
- 2 oz fresh orange juice

--
Michael Press
 
On Apr 19, 11:54 am, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 19, 6:40 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 18, 2:15 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > On Apr 18, 11:02 am, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > > Some questions for you Campy experts.

>
> > > > I have several retro road frames with 130mm rear spacing and some NOS
> > > > Suntour Ultra Winner 7 speed freewheels that I want to use on them. These
> > > > will be used for casual retro rides.

>
> > > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > > I have some after market rear axles that will allow me to convert my Campy
> > > > 120/126mm hubs to 130mm but there's the possibility of damaging the
> > > > dropout from a broken rear axle.

>
> > > > There seems to be over a dozen variations of post R/NR/SR Campy FW hub
> > > > models.

>
> > > > I've seen a few 130mm wide NOS Campy FW hubs for sale. Is there any
> > > > difference other than cosmetics between the 12+ different freewheel hub
> > > > models?

>
> > > > Are the Campy MTB hubs any beefier or are they just road hubs with rubber
> > > > covers over the QR lever?

>
> > > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > As long as you don't break axles, get yourself a Campy Record hubset.
> > > I believe the old SR/NR groups used the same hub, so get the one with
> > > the black clip in the middle that covers the oil port. With grade 25
> > > bearings, it will be smooth.

>
> > > Alternatively, if you want more "polish," see if you can find yourself
> > > a C-Record hubset.

>
> > > If you are strong or heavy, then a freewheel-style hub may not be the
> > > best thing to get as you will break axles. If that is the case, then
> > > find get yourself a good cassette hub. Good Luck!

>
> > This, along with sleepy winkie on road bikes, is a popular
> > misconception. I use ONLY frewheel hubs and with the winter and a
> > gooned up right knee, I'm on the right side of a .1 offa ton. Alingned
> > dropouts, riding smart, proper axle length....and titanium axles, all
> > help. haven't broken an axle for years.

>
> Come on Peter, you can do better than that. On the one hand you
> dismiss my claim that only freewheel hubs break as a "popular
> misconception." Yet you clearly state "haven't broken an axle FOR
> YEARS." Obviously, you HAVE broken fw hub axles. What's up? You are a
> *PRO* mechanic, whom I presumed checked to see that your dropouts were
> aligned and that you had used a proper axle length. Further, we all
> know you "ride smart." So what did cause that AXLE TO BREAK?!
>
> In my case, I broke 3 axles, 1 Campy; 2 Wheel Mfg., on my Campy C-
> Record fw rear hub. I never had the dropouts checked for alignment, so
> that could have been the cause. Then again, I've used both a Shimano
> DA 9 and Campy Chorus rear cassette hub on my bike, and have NOT had a
> rear axle break. Is it possible that a cassette rear hub, especially
> the Shimano with the outboard bearing, may be stronger and allow me to
> just ride without worrying about an axle breaking?- Hide quoted text -


I agree. Go modern.

I really don't get all the retro-bike stuff. Why agonize over a 130mm
Record FW rear-wheel with after-market axles that may or may not
break. Get an Ultegra rear for $40 (or whatever) a cassette and call
it good. And who really wants to friction shift anymore? So it can
be done, big deal. It's not like some spiritual act, unless you think
sitting down on a climb to feel around for your next gear gets you
closer to God. I don't think it does -- not any more than pulling my
foot out of a toe strap in a finishing sprint -- or having my hands
slip off Benotto bar tape (even multi-color, interwoven Benotto
tape). Some of these old conventions are better off dead --
particularly in the PNW where the "dust caps" on Record hubs would do
nothing to keep out the gallons of water I ride through regularly (but
not today, which is beautiful, so I am going to loop home through the
hills and be happy I have STI and lots of gears on my commuter).

And really, if you are going to go retro -- go full boat 120mm five
speed retro with 42/52 rings. Then when you are sitting down on that
climb, feeling around for your last gear, you can have that fun
realization (as the pitch increases to 15%) that you are already in
it. That is when you remember that your body is retro, too. -- Jay
Beattie.
 
On Apr 19, 6:27 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 18, 9:40 pm, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > <snip>

>
> > > Thanks for the suggestions. I'm breaking my frankenbike tradition on one
> > > of these frames; it's going to be all mid 80s Campy stuff.

>
> > Once upon a time, "Polynesian" restaurant/bars served a drink (Rum
> > based??) called the Suffering *******. Now, the term will make me
> > think of you on that bike..... ;-)

>
> - 1 1/2 oz rum
> - 1 oz overproof rum
> - 3/4 oz orange curacao liqueur
> - 1/2 oz orgeat syrup
> - 1 oz fresh lime juice
> - 2 oz fresh orange juice
>


Thank you, Michael! Perhaps I'll mix a batch and mail it to Chas
(properly chilled, of course ;-> ).
 
"Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 19, 6:27 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article
> > <[email protected]>,
> > Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Apr 18, 9:40 pm, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> > > <snip>

> >
> > > > Thanks for the suggestions. I'm breaking my frankenbike tradition

on one
> > > > of these frames; it's going to be all mid 80s Campy stuff.

> >
> > > Once upon a time, "Polynesian" restaurant/bars served a drink (Rum
> > > based??) called the Suffering *******. Now, the term will make me
> > > think of you on that bike..... ;-)

> >
> > - 1 1/2 oz rum
> > - 1 oz overproof rum
> > - 3/4 oz orange curacao liqueur
> > - 1/2 oz orgeat syrup
> > - 1 oz fresh lime juice
> > - 2 oz fresh orange juice
> >

>
> Thank you, Michael! Perhaps I'll mix a batch and mail it to Chas
> (properly chilled, of course ;-> ).
>


Suffer, yes.... Going blind, no!

Chas.
 
On 19 Apr 2007 17:54:14 -0700, Jay Beattie <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I really don't get all the retro-bike stuff.



Why restore and drive classic cars? Why do people fly vintage
aeroplanes?

It's not because they haven't made "improvements" in both
technologies.
 
On Apr 19, 9:34 pm, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Ozark Bicycle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 19, 6:27 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <[email protected]>,
> > > Ozark Bicycle <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > > On Apr 18, 9:40 pm, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > > <snip>

>
> > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. I'm breaking my frankenbike tradition

> on one
> > > > > of these frames; it's going to be all mid 80s Campy stuff.

>
> > > > Once upon a time, "Polynesian" restaurant/bars served a drink (Rum
> > > > based??) called the Suffering *******. Now, the term will make me
> > > > think of you on that bike..... ;-)

>
> > > - 1 1/2 oz rum
> > > - 1 oz overproof rum
> > > - 3/4 oz orange curacao liqueur
> > > - 1/2 oz orgeat syrup
> > > - 1 oz fresh lime juice
> > > - 2 oz fresh orange juice

>
> > Thank you, Michael! Perhaps I'll mix a batch and mail it to Chas
> > (properly chilled, of course ;-> ).

>
> Suffer, yes.... Going blind, no!
>


No more than two in any one evening (unless heavy rain is forecast for
the next day, of course) !
 
"Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Apr 19, 11:54 am, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Apr 19, 6:40 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>
>
> I really don't get all the retro-bike stuff. Why agonize over a 130mm
> Record FW rear-wheel with after-market axles that may or may not
> break. Get an Ultegra rear for $40 (or whatever) a cassette and call
> it good. And who really wants to friction shift anymore? So it can
> be done, big deal. It's not like some spiritual act, unless you think
> sitting down on a climb to feel around for your next gear gets you
> closer to God. I don't think it does -- not any more than pulling my
> foot out of a toe strap in a finishing sprint -- or having my hands
> slip off Benotto bar tape (even multi-color, interwoven Benotto
> tape). Some of these old conventions are better off dead --
> particularly in the PNW where the "dust caps" on Record hubs would do
> nothing to keep out the gallons of water I ride through regularly (but
> not today, which is beautiful, so I am going to loop home through the
> hills and be happy I have STI and lots of gears on my commuter).
>
> And really, if you are going to go retro -- go full boat 120mm five
> speed retro with 42/52 rings. Then when you are sitting down on that
> climb, feeling around for your last gear, you can have that fun
> realization (as the pitch increases to 15%) that you are already in
> it. That is when you remember that your body is retro, too. -- Jay
> Beattie.
>


I really don't get all the plastic bike stuff. Why agonize over a carbon
fiber reinforced epoxy frame with all those after market components that
may or may not break without warning. Get a 12 lb. carbon fiber fixie and
call it good. And who really wants to shift anymore? So it can be done,
big deal. It's not like some spiritual act, for 50 years or more REAL men
raced on single speeds and they didn't need 30 gears to pull unpaved
alpine passes in the snow...... :)

Tullio Tullio... where art thou Tullio.

Chas.
 
Dans le message de news:[email protected],
* * Chas <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

> I really don't get all the plastic bike stuff. Why agonize over a
> carbon fiber reinforced epoxy frame


Perhaps you would be more accurate in saying a carbon-fibre structure held
together in a polymer matrix ? Unless you didn't mean anything denigrating
by using the term "plastic". I'm not sure that you can properly use the
term "plastic", but in this forum, I am sure someone will show me I'm wrong.

> with all those after market
> components that may or may not break without warning.


After what market ? Everything attached to a bicycle frame comes after.
Monopoly power is not really very sexy stuff for consumers.

> And who really wants to shift
> anymore? So it can be done, big deal. It's not like some spiritual
> act, for 50 years or more REAL men raced on single speeds and they
> didn't need 30 gears to pull unpaved alpine passes in the snow......


Perhaps these legendary racers just went a little slower, though. Like
almost twice as fast on the road, from then until now. After all, racing is
about going faster, But that's racing, not all bike riding.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
 
* * Chas wrote:
It's not like some spiritual act, for 50 years or more REAL men
> raced on single speeds and they didn't need 30 gears to pull unpaved
>


No, a car with differently geared spare bikes was enough ;)


--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl
 
On Apr 19, 12:54 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 19, 6:40 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 18, 2:15 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > On Apr 18, 11:02 am, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > > Some questions for you Campy experts.

>
> > > > I have several retro road frames with 130mm rear spacing and some NOS
> > > > Suntour Ultra Winner 7 speed freewheels that I want to use on them. These
> > > > will be used for casual retro rides.

>
> > > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > > I have some after market rear axles that will allow me to convert my Campy
> > > > 120/126mm hubs to 130mm but there's the possibility of damaging the
> > > > dropout from a broken rear axle.

>
> > > > There seems to be over a dozen variations of post R/NR/SR Campy FW hub
> > > > models.

>
> > > > I've seen a few 130mm wide NOS Campy FW hubs for sale. Is there any
> > > > difference other than cosmetics between the 12+ different freewheel hub
> > > > models?

>
> > > > Are the Campy MTB hubs any beefier or are they just road hubs with rubber
> > > > covers over the QR lever?

>
> > > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > As long as you don't break axles, get yourself a Campy Record hubset.
> > > I believe the old SR/NR groups used the same hub, so get the one with
> > > the black clip in the middle that covers the oil port. With grade 25
> > > bearings, it will be smooth.

>
> > > Alternatively, if you want more "polish," see if you can find yourself
> > > a C-Record hubset.

>
> > > If you are strong or heavy, then a freewheel-style hub may not be the
> > > best thing to get as you will break axles. If that is the case, then
> > > find get yourself a good cassette hub. Good Luck!

>
> > This, along with sleepy winkie on road bikes, is a popular
> > misconception. I use ONLY frewheel hubs and with the winter and a
> > gooned up right knee, I'm on the right side of a .1 offa ton. Alingned
> > dropouts, riding smart, proper axle length....and titanium axles, all
> > help. haven't broken an axle for years.

>
> Come on Peter, you can do better than that. On the one hand you
> dismiss my claim that only freewheel hubs break as a "popular
> misconception." Yet you clearly state "haven't broken an axle FOR
> YEARS." Obviously, you HAVE broken fw hub axles. What's up? You are a
> *PRO* mechanic, whom I presumed checked to see that your dropouts were
> aligned and that you had used a proper axle length. Further, we all
> know you "ride smart." So what did cause that AXLE TO BREAK?!
>
> In my case, I broke 3 axles, 1 Campy; 2 Wheel Mfg., on my Campy C-
> Record fw rear hub. I never had the dropouts checked for alignment, so
> that could have been the cause. Then again, I've used both a Shimano
> DA 9 and Campy Chorus rear cassette hub on my bike, and have NOT had a
> rear axle break. Is it possible that a cassette rear hub, especially
> the Shimano with the outboard bearing, may be stronger and allow me to
> just ride without worrying about an axle breaking?


I was talking about Chas' blaanket statement of-"If you are strong or
heavy, then a freewheel-style hub may not be the
> best thing to get as you will break axles. If that is the case, then
> find get yourself a good cassette hub. Good Luck!


'You WILL break axles(my caps). You won't always break axles.

Even pro wrenches smack into a hole not seen and that will break an
axle but having a FW rear hub and be heavier does not guarantee broken
axles, my point.

OF COURSE freehub systems like shimano(freehub bolted onto the hub
body, on all except 7800) is stronger. Even Campag and others w/o this
pateneted system, with 12 to 16mm axles are stronger than a 10mm one,
but a FW rear hub is not an automatic broken axle when riding on
normal roads and such..my point.
 
On Apr 19, 6:54 pm, Jay Beattie <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 19, 11:54 am, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 19, 6:40 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > On Apr 18, 2:15 pm, bfd <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > > On Apr 18, 11:02 am, "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> > > > > Some questions for you Campy experts.

>
> > > > > I have several retro road frames with 130mm rear spacing and some NOS
> > > > > Suntour Ultra Winner 7 speed freewheels that I want to use on them. These
> > > > > will be used for casual retro rides.

>
> > > > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > > > I have some after market rear axles that will allow me to convert my Campy
> > > > > 120/126mm hubs to 130mm but there's the possibility of damaging the
> > > > > dropout from a broken rear axle.

>
> > > > > There seems to be over a dozen variations of post R/NR/SR Campy FW hub
> > > > > models.

>
> > > > > I've seen a few 130mm wide NOS Campy FW hubs for sale. Is there any
> > > > > difference other than cosmetics between the 12+ different freewheel hub
> > > > > models?

>
> > > > > Are the Campy MTB hubs any beefier or are they just road hubs with rubber
> > > > > covers over the QR lever?

>
> > > > > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > > > > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > > > As long as you don't break axles, get yourself a Campy Record hubset.
> > > > I believe the old SR/NR groups used the same hub, so get the one with
> > > > the black clip in the middle that covers the oil port. With grade 25
> > > > bearings, it will be smooth.

>
> > > > Alternatively, if you want more "polish," see if you can find yourself
> > > > a C-Record hubset.

>
> > > > If you are strong or heavy, then a freewheel-style hub may not be the
> > > > best thing to get as you will break axles. If that is the case, then
> > > > find get yourself a good cassette hub. Good Luck!

>
> > > This, along with sleepy winkie on road bikes, is a popular
> > > misconception. I use ONLY frewheel hubs and with the winter and a
> > > gooned up right knee, I'm on the right side of a .1 offa ton. Alingned
> > > dropouts, riding smart, proper axle length....and titanium axles, all
> > > help. haven't broken an axle for years.

>
> > Come on Peter, you can do better than that. On the one hand you
> > dismiss my claim that only freewheel hubs break as a "popular
> > misconception." Yet you clearly state "haven't broken an axle FOR
> > YEARS." Obviously, you HAVE broken fw hub axles. What's up? You are a
> > *PRO* mechanic, whom I presumed checked to see that your dropouts were
> > aligned and that you had used a proper axle length. Further, we all
> > know you "ride smart." So what did cause that AXLE TO BREAK?!

>
> > In my case, I broke 3 axles, 1 Campy; 2 Wheel Mfg., on my Campy C-
> > Record fw rear hub. I never had the dropouts checked for alignment, so
> > that could have been the cause. Then again, I've used both a Shimano
> > DA 9 and Campy Chorus rear cassette hub on my bike, and have NOT had a
> > rear axle break. Is it possible that a cassette rear hub, especially
> > the Shimano with the outboard bearing, may be stronger and allow me to
> > just ride without worrying about an axle breaking?- Hide quoted text -

>
> I agree. Go modern.
>
> I really don't get all the retro-bike stuff. Why agonize over a 130mm
> Record FW rear-wheel with after-market axles that may or may not
> break. Get an Ultegra rear for $40 (or whatever) a cassette and call
> it good. And who really wants to friction shift anymore?


I prefer it and like those car mechanics that work on brand spanking
new cars all day, alots of wrenches like that 1956 Chevy with all it's
warts.

So it can
> be done, big deal. It's not like some spiritual act, unless you think
> sitting down on a climb to feel around for your next gear gets you
> closer to God. I don't think it does -- not any more than pulling my
> foot out of a toe strap in a finishing sprint -- or having my hands
> slip off Benotto bar tape (even multi-color, interwoven Benotto
> tape). Some of these old conventions are better off dead --
> particularly in the PNW where the "dust caps" on Record hubs would do
> nothing to keep out the gallons of water I ride through regularly (but
> not today, which is beautiful, so I am going to loop home through the
> hills and be happy I have STI and lots of gears on my commuter).
>
> And really, if you are going to go retro -- go full boat 120mm five
> speed retro with 42/52 rings. Then when you are sitting down on that
> climb, feeling around for your last gear, you can have that fun
> realization (as the pitch increases to 15%) that you are already in
> it. That is when you remember that your body is retro, too. -- Jay
> Beattie.


OK, welcome to america and rejoice that you have the new whizbangery.
At leats you mentioned a couple of the genuine cycling advances that
have come by in the last 2 DECADES, like clipless pedals and lever
mounted shifting. If ya don't 'get it'(retro), don't use it. I don't
get automatic transmissions on cars either.
 
On Apr 19, 9:04 am, "Tom Nakashima" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "* * Chas" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > Some questions for you Campy experts.

>
> > I have several retro road frames with 130mm rear spacing and some NOS
> > Suntour Ultra Winner 7 speed freewheels that I want to use on them. These
> > will be used for casual retro rides.

>
> > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > I have some after market rear axles that will allow me to convert my Campy
> > 120/126mm hubs to 130mm but there's the possibility of damaging the
> > dropout from a broken rear axle.

>
> > There seems to be over a dozen variations of post R/NR/SR Campy FW hub
> > models.

>
> > I've seen a few 130mm wide NOS Campy FW hubs for sale. Is there any
> > difference other than cosmetics between the 12+ different freewheel hub
> > models?

>
> > Are the Campy MTB hubs any beefier or are they just road hubs with rubber
> > covers over the QR lever?

>
> > The easy fix is to use one of my 6. 7 or 8 speed Shimano wheels but that
> > would defeat my purpose.

>
> > Chas.

>
> I'm not sure if I'm qualified to be a Campagnolo expert, but I do ride the
> older
> Nuovo/Super Record. I should correct that, some of the components I've up
> graded, or some may consider down grading, depending how you look at it.
>
> I've broken two Campy axles when I had my frame coldset spread to
> 130mm. And I consider two, one too many!
> Originally the rear was 126mm. I had it done professionally by
> Terry Shaw of Shaw's lightweight bicycles. What I didn't know was by
> going to 130mm, it puts the axle at risk for strength. I wished Terry had
> told
> me this, but I found out the hard way.
>
> I also had a longer axle put in, and the wheel redished to accommodate the
> new 130mm spacing.
> I'm not a heavy guy, lightweight 140 1lbs, but I climb a lot of hills. The
> first
> time I broke an axle I didn't even know it until I had a flat on the rear.
> When I removed the wheel from the bike, the axle fell apart. I couldn't
> believe my eyes. The skewers must have held it together.
>
> Terry suggested that I have the wheel rebuilt correctly instead of just
> redished.
> So I did has he suggested. About a month later, I broke another axle.
> Ok, it was either brake more axles, or coldset the frame back to 126mm,
> or go to C-Record hub which is made for the 130mm spacing...
>
> OR: and this really hurt, get rid of the Campagnolo friction shifting, in
> favor of Shimano index rear drivetrain. So why not Campagnolo index?
> Well, (at that time) you got your budget, and I got mine.
>
> So I'm still riding the same Reynolds 531 frame from 1977. I've tried other
> bikes since, but this is the one I'm currently riding and I just can't seem
> to give up. It has the 9sp Shimano Ultegra downtube index shifters from
> years ago, but it's never missed a shift, and no broken axles.
>
> People tell me that I need a new bike, but it goes in one ear and out the
> other.
> I also hear from the Campy purist, that too bad it has Shimano parts on
> the bike. I see it as, well I guess they're not the ones riding it.
> ps.....I love to ride.
> -tom


In spite of all the gadgets on the bike frame and all the hoopla about
Campag this or shimano(or Sram now) that, the heart and sole of the
bicycle and the thing that lasts while the rest gets changed..is the
frame. I would rather have my Merckx with shimano Sora than some
plastic POS with Record.
 
On Apr 20, 5:38 am, "Sandy" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dans le message denews:[email protected],
> * * Chas <[email protected]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
>
> > I really don't get all the plastic bike stuff. Why agonize over a
> > carbon fiber reinforced epoxy frame

>
> Perhaps you would be more accurate in saying a carbon-fibre structure held
> together in a polymer matrix ? Unless you didn't mean anything denigrating
> by using the term "plastic". I'm not sure that you can properly use the
> term "plastic", but in this forum, I am sure someone will show me I'm wrong.
>
> > with all those after market
> > components that may or may not break without warning.

>
> After what market ? Everything attached to a bicycle frame comes after.
> Monopoly power is not really very sexy stuff for consumers.
>
> > And who really wants to shift
> > anymore? So it can be done, big deal. It's not like some spiritual
> > act, for 50 years or more REAL men raced on single speeds and they
> > didn't need 30 gears to pull unpaved alpine passes in the snow......

>
> Perhaps these legendary racers just went a little slower, though. Like
> almost twice as fast on the road, from then until now. After all, racingis
> about going faster, But that's racing, not all bike riding.
> --
> Bonne route !
>
> Sandy
> Verneuil-sur-Seine FR


Dear Sandy:

Those thin white lines you see up in the sky are left by Chas'
satirical humor as it flies far, far over your head.

Cheers,
The Ghost of Tullio C.
 
Jay Beattie <[email protected]> writes:

>I really don't get all the retro-bike stuff. Why agonize over a 130mm
>Record FW rear-wheel with after-market axles that may or may not
>break. Get an Ultegra rear for $40 (or whatever) a cassette and call
>it good. And who really wants to friction shift anymore?


I personally think 2x7 = 14 gears is plenty for most applications, so
I ride with 126mm rear hubs. And as for sneering at a 14-24 x 42-52,
how about my 13-21 x 42x52 on San Diego hills? And yes, last month I
passed ALL THE CARBON WEENIES on my 22 lbs 1977 Carlton on TORREY
PINES ROAD, which is about an 8-10% grade, in my 54-inch low gear !!

An indexed shifting system of any quality would cost more than an
entire retro bike. And, indexed shifting in many cases just
compensates for rider weaknesses - I think that since about 1975 ITS
THE ENGINE NOT REALLY THE DRIVETRAIN THAT MATTERS.

So, I use friction shifting, and benefit from being able to shift 5x
gears if I need to, and benefit from the lower maintenance and higher
robustness. Yes, I do have to anticipate shifts a little more than an
indexed shifting dude, but if you grew up on friction the benefits of
indexed shifting are truly overrated.

With my ultegra 6700 indexed gears I would throw the chain off the
front chainrings once per week, because indexed systems CANNOT shift
both the front and back gears at the same time! LIABILITY ! That's
one of the many disadvantages of indexing that most people never talk
about ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
 
"Donald Gillies" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jay Beattie <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>I really don't get all the retro-bike stuff. Why agonize over a 130mm
>>Record FW rear-wheel with after-market axles that may or may not
>>break. Get an Ultegra rear for $40 (or whatever) a cassette and call
>>it good. And who really wants to friction shift anymore?


Actually if you want to use the "friction" mode you can on the Shimano
index DT shifters. At least you can on mine...and I have. Bit I find it
easier to use the index IMHO to not have to worry about the sweetspot.

>
> I personally think 2x7 = 14 gears is plenty for most applications, so
> I ride with 126mm rear hubs. And as for sneering at a 14-24 x 42-52,
> how about my 13-21 x 42x52 on San Diego hills? And yes, last month I
> passed ALL THE CARBON WEENIES on my 22 lbs 1977 Carlton on TORREY
> PINES ROAD, which is about an 8-10% grade, in my 54-inch low gear !!


Does it really matter who's fastest up the hill?

>
> An indexed shifting system of any quality would cost more than an
> entire retro bike. And, indexed shifting in many cases just
> compensates for rider weaknesses - I think that since about 1975 ITS
> THE ENGINE NOT REALLY THE DRIVETRAIN THAT MATTERS.


I wouldn't consider indexed shifting a rider's weakness, just a personal
preference.

> So, I use friction shifting, and benefit from being able to shift 5x
> gears if I need to, and benefit from the lower maintenance and higher
> robustness. Yes, I do have to anticipate shifts a little more than an
> indexed shifting dude, but if you grew up on friction the benefits of
> indexed shifting are truly overrated.


Fixedgear riders in general find any type of shifting overrated.

> With my ultegra 6700 indexed gears I would throw the chain off the
> front chainrings once per week, because indexed systems CANNOT shift
> both the front and back gears at the same time! LIABILITY ! That's
> one of the many disadvantages of indexing that most people never talk
> about ...
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA


Don, you're telling us how good a shifter you are with friction shifters.
Yet you're saying that you throw the chain off the front once per
week on your ultegra 6700???
52 weeks in a year....
I mean how many times do you have
to do this to understand that you can't shift both the front and back gear
at the same time?
-tom
 
Peter Chisholm writes:

>> I was talking about Chas' blanket statement of-"If you are strong
>> or heavy, then a freewheel-style hub may not be the best thing to
>> get as you will break axles. If that is the case, then find get
>> yourself a good cassette hub. Good Luck!


> 'You WILL break axles(my caps). You won't always break axles.


> Even pro wrenches smack into a hole not seen and that will break an
> axle but having a FW rear hub and be heavier does not guarantee
> broken axles, my point.


Campagnolo Record axles break from fatigue, not sudden shocks. Not
only that, but they break gradually, first appearing to be bent
slightly and then separating over many miles. These axles do not
bend. A bent Campagnolo axle is cracked. I have plenty of them and
have resorted to swapping ends if discovered soon enough, the other
end having a whole lifetime before similar failure.

> OF COURSE freehub systems like Shimano(freehub bolted onto the hub
> body, on all except 7800) is stronger. Even Campagnolo and others
> w/o this patented system, with 12 to 16mm axles are stronger than a
> 10mm one, but a FW rear hub is not an automatic broken axle when
> riding on normal roads and such..my point.


Shimano hubs have their axle bearings at the outer end, unlike
Campagnolo, where the right bearing is inboard and subjects the axle
to "overhang" bending moment that arises from chain pull plus some
rider weight. I say some rider weight because the greatest chain pull
occurs when climbing or sprinting while standing with most rider
weight on the front wheel. Chain pull is often greater than rider
weight bearing on one end of the axle.

Jobst Brandt