Questions we don't want to answer again



hwttdz

New Member
Sep 28, 2003
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Yes I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you read what I was saying. I don't want the new people to go away, I want them to find answers to their questions without getting blown off, or smart remarks. I realize I made an error in the title of the thread, unfortunately I can't edit that now. I'm not a moderator so I can't make a sticky with faq's nor add to the faq list we have.

The faq's deal more with anatomy of a bicycle, which you can be completely ignorant of and still use one. So, it's missing some crucial things, I attmepted to come up with a better faq and it looks like I've failed. However, I did not "slam" anyone, at least not intentionally, yet I have been attacked (ironically for attacking people, which I have not done) myself.
 

Mr_Potatohead

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Jun 8, 2004
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zapper said:
Ron, don't let these bubbas bother you...Most of the folks on this site have been very helpful and are very patient. Not one of these losers have provided any sensible advice yet...cool:

Your mileage may vary at any given LBS. There is an inherent conflict of interest because they are in business to make money not just help you. And the more stuff they sell you, and the more expensive it is, the more profit they make. So even though a $3000 bike may be great and you'll be quite happy with it, a $1000 bike would have been just fine too.

The people who say go to your LBS for everything probably work in sales at the LBS. :rolleyes:
 

Ronjumps

New Member
Aug 19, 2004
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Oh I understand getting attacked...On another forum I get atacked when I try to help...a lot.

My point is that a true newbie...Like me. Has no clue.
I understand that a lot is personal preference, and only time and experience can give that.

But I know enough of marketing and selling that if I am so stupid to walk into a LBS and say "Hey, I need a road bike" They might just try and sell me the most expensive bike they can get me to buy.

A LBS I went to saw me with a nice watch, and the first bike he took me to was a $3,400.00 Carbon Cannondale.

Now I know nothing about bikes...I'm a newbie, huffin up the hills, last bike was before I could drive, nobody. But I do know I don't need a $3,400.00 bike to get exercise.

Maybe it was the best bike EVER...But with my lack of skills it would not matter.

But my LBS REALLY wanted me to buy it. I left...So now I am here.

The FAQ is a great idea...And knowing the components are important.

But I don't know what the price/need line is. I don't mind spending money if I know what I am getting and its needed.

Maybe this was ment to be funny, and I am just not "in" enough to get it.
Maybe this was ment to help and I just didn't see it that way.

If thats the case...sorry.

But it almost made me delete the bookmark and take my chances at Sears.


hwttdz said:
Yes I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you read what I was saying. I don't want the new people to go away, I want them to find answers to their questions without getting blown off, or smart remarks. I realize I made an error in the title of the thread, unfortunately I can't edit that now. I'm not a moderator so I can't make a sticky with faq's nor add to the faq list we have.

The faq's deal more with anatomy of a bicycle, which you can be completely ignorant of and still use one. So, it's missing some crucial things, I attmepted to come up with a better faq and it looks like I've failed. However, I did not "slam" anyone, at least not intentionally, yet I have been attacked (ironically for attacking people, which I have not done) myself.
 

KMKS

New Member
Aug 3, 2004
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I made a post about this very topic in the "Tell us what you think" forum. I think a forum for new members/riders would be a great idea, where all of us newbies could ask the same stupid questions over and over again. There are a million reasons this would be better for all involved (only those who want to help go to the forum, easier to search/see topics, etc). Feel free to add to my post and add support to this idea if you'd like, it seems like they're working on it. Love the forum so far though!
 

hwttdz

New Member
Sep 28, 2003
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It was an attempt to be helpful the thought being that when people are in search of a very general question they could check an faq and not have to post at the risk of 1) being told off for a stupid post without in fact getting their question answered 2) just being ignored. The main advantage of the faq being they get a good answer without having to look for it a lot.

I don't think a newbie forum is the best idea for a few reasons. First if we could get a good faq then they would get a better answer than they would otherwise and also the answer to their question would be readily available. I find it a little difficult to understand some people attacking me if they have read the entire thread, not just the title, so I will state again that 20% of all posts in this forum go unanswered. A good number of other posts are not answered in any satisfactory way.

Getting back to the newbie forum, I think some users with valuable information wouldn't browse it and their (being the newbies) questions would be even more likely to go unanswered. Also misconceptions could easily be perpetuated from one generation of newbies to another.

By the way if admin sees this could they chime in about maybe adding a few things to the faq?
 

Mr_Potatohead

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Jun 8, 2004
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Actually my advice to people like you who are just getting started is this. Buy a used bike through the classifieds, garage sale whatever. Doesn't matter. Just take it for a test ride first. Ask yourself the tough questions. Do the gears and brakes work. Can you get the seat high/low enough? Is there air in the tires? OK great.

Now go out and ride.

Most bikes end up gathering dust in a garage. So why have a $3000 dust gatherer? If you like riding you can upgrade in a few months, resell the used bike, and you haven't lost much if anything. If you decide cycling is not for you. Again you haven't lost much if anything. Resell the used bike or scrap it, again no big deal. Whereas if you've got a $3000 slightly used bike in the garage, you take a big hit on depreciation, and can maybe resell it for $1500.
The flip side of that is that you can probably find a pretty decent used bike at a garage sale for $100 or less that will be just fine for starting off.

In other words you don't have to do a cannonball off the high dive into the deep end to start off.

Start off by going ankle high in the kiddie pool.



Ronjumps said:
Oh I understand getting attacked...On another forum I get atacked when I try to help...a lot.

My point is that a true newbie...Like me. Has no clue.
I understand that a lot is personal preference, and only time and experience can give that.

But I know enough of marketing and selling that if I am so stupid to walk into a LBS and say "Hey, I need a road bike" They might just try and sell me the most expensive bike they can get me to buy.

A LBS I went to saw me with a nice watch, and the first bike he took me to was a $3,400.00 Carbon Cannondale.

Now I know nothing about bikes...I'm a newbie, huffin up the hills, last bike was before I could drive, nobody. But I do know I don't need a $3,400.00 bike to get exercise.

Maybe it was the best bike EVER...But with my lack of skills it would not matter.

But my LBS REALLY wanted me to buy it. I left...So now I am here.

The FAQ is a great idea...And knowing the components are important.

But I don't know what the price/need line is. I don't mind spending money if I know what I am getting and its needed.

Maybe this was ment to be funny, and I am just not "in" enough to get it.
Maybe this was ment to help and I just didn't see it that way.

If thats the case...sorry.

But it almost made me delete the bookmark and take my chances at Sears.
 

keydates

New Member
Mar 9, 2004
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Don't know if this has been posted before, but how about something like 5 recommend bikes in a price range (according to members here). Admittedly, that might not be possible with so many different opinions, but it could work.

Something like:
<$800 USD
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
$800-1200 USD
1....
5.
etc etc.
It would help newer people in search of a bike get an idea of what some good bikes are. Of course, there would be a note saying that these aren't the only bikes, and you should always go for whatever you like best.

Yes, the title seems snobbish (even though most people here aren't...including those that posted in the thread).
 

hwttdz

New Member
Sep 28, 2003
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keydates said:
Yes, the title seems snobbish (even though most people here aren't...including those that posted in the thread).

Again sorry about the title. Perhaps we should start a new one.

Keydates: Interestingly I thought about that, though it was going to be a personal list. I was going to list the best bikes at all prices for myself. This sounds impossible so let me explain. I think for my uses that a bike called the Leader 715r @ $1000 is superior to all bikes less than $1200. So my list would have that bike at 1000 and then no bikes until the bike that finally beats it out at 1200. However, this is not practical in a greater sense because someone may say a touring bike in the same range is better, but that's a different application. So I decided the best we could likely do is make some ranges i.e. 800-1000 come up with a few bikes in each and have a few words on them. Example
800-1000
leader 715r: +great racer, super stiff, exceptional handling
- beats you up on long rides, not super light
 

Salsa Rider

New Member
Jul 16, 2004
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Ronjumps said:
<snip>
My point is that a true newbie...Like me. Has no clue.
I understand that a lot is personal preference, and only time and experience can give that.

But I know enough of marketing and selling that if I am so stupid to walk into a LBS and say "Hey, I need a road bike" They might just try and sell me the most expensive bike they can get me to buy.

A LBS I went to saw me with a nice watch, and the first bike he took me to was a $3,400.00 Carbon Cannondale.

Now I know nothing about bikes...I'm a newbie, huffin up the hills, last bike was before I could drive, nobody. But I do know I don't need a $3,400.00 bike to get exercise.

Maybe it was the best bike EVER...But with my lack of skills it would not matter.

But my LBS REALLY wanted me to buy it. I left...So now I am here.

<snip>

If thats the case...sorry.

But it almost made me delete the bookmark and take my chances at Sears.
Hey hows it goin' I hope your getting some good information between the body blows. Here's my .02 for whatevr its worth ( .01 probably)

there are -3- kinds of sales people in bikes stores. 1) young kid who's really excited about cycling who's going to show you that 3k bike as a starter the way I show my wife that porsche 911 and tell her I *need* to get to work faster. I just want it thats all.

2)The sales person who is motovated to sell you top end stuff whether you need it or not because he/she is working on some sort of commission or spiff program. Smart ones will quickly get that they're not going to sell you that one and move on to other more appropriate bikes, but they will give it a shot first. Hey take it for a test ride, dont buy it, but its always fun to ride stuff you would never dream about buying. If you can find a shop that does not work on commission, that will eliminate any sort of $$$ motovation.

3) the sales person that realizes if they can get someone new to enjoy the sport, they (you) will come back and spend more later on all sorts of things including a new more expensive bike a year or 2 down the road. This is the kind of sales person you want to talk to. They will try to talk you into a bike that isnt the bottom of the line, mostly because they want to have fun. And cheap bikes are just that -cheap-. But they wont try to get you to take out a second mortgage either.

Do this- figure out what your budget is. go to your local LBS, get some help trying to figure out what kind of bike it is the *you* are looking for. Hybrid, flat handle bar road bike, mtn bike, whatever. Then ride one that you have no intention of buying what-so-ever, just to get an idea of what that kind of bike can be. Then ride one that is just above your budget (2 or 3 weeks of staying at home on Sat night and taking your lunch to work type of thing) like $100+/-. Then ride a couple in your price range. Ask for a brochure, go out the door and check another bike shop, repeat. Buy the one that is the best mixture of comfort and bells and whistles. Also be sure that you are comfortable with the idea of doing business with these people again, because you will; alot.

AND DONT BUY A BIKE FROM A DEPT STORE!!!!
The bikes there are usually cheap peices of **** put together by the same guy that is working his way upto assembling lawn mowers. And if you have a problem there is ZERO they can do about it. Then you will have to take it over to the LBS where you should have bought the bike in the first place.

Most of Have fun and if someone flames give'm the finger and go out and ride your bike!
 

KMKS

New Member
Aug 3, 2004
90
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41
I didn't have a problem with this thread by the way, just stating another good way to get information out to newbies like myself. I've been on other forums w/ this type of setup in the past and it works well, i find that a fair number people w/ lots of knowledge often do want to help out. The same people who will answer "what frame size" type questions here, will likely do it in the other forum. Only minus the rash of sarcastic replies. Plus it gives a place for newbies to thrash out answers for themselves. Sometimes somebody will post a thread "BUYING MY FIRST BIKE" and maybe hearing from somebody who just went through or is going through the same process is exactly what they need. I'm not suggesting this to replace the FAQ, just another (possibly less annoying to vets) way to get answers.
 

Ronjumps

New Member
Aug 19, 2004
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0
Very good information.

My big fear is going to the LBS and being told the "Pro X1 Sabre" is the best bike for me, and finding out that its really a pice of junk, or I could have spent 100-200 more and gotten a better bike.

And I understand the need to find a good LBS...And honest LBS...But in truth I have no idea what I am talking about in bikes....In Skydiving we have a canopy called a NOVA....It's a deathtrap. Looks good, flies good for a while. Then one day it will just fold up on you and kill you. A new jumper does not know its not a good deal or that it is dangerous.

So, I could easily be taken advantage of. And I know it.
I know Trek is good, I know Cannondale is good, I have heard of Giant. But I have no idea what is what, or what is worth what. One shop had a Specialized and they were pushing them hard....Well it had the same components as some of the Cannondales he had...So I assume it is a cheeper frame with good components....But I would hate to find out its not a good frame after I buy it.

Heck I just found out I need to get "fit" to a bike. I thought I just jumped on one and went.

I have one friend telling me that I can't get a good bike for less than 2 grand, and another telling me that 800 should do.

Its confusing to say the least.

I LIKE the idea of a list of five bikes for 800-1000, 1000-1200, 1200-1500 for newbies....My budget is around 1,000.00 I could go more if it mattered THAT much..truth is I don't know what matters.

I think that would be a GREAT tool.

I'll stop rambling now.

Thanks

Ron

Salsa Rider said:
there are -3- kinds of sales people in bikes stores. 1) young kid who's really excited about cycling who's going to show you that 3k bike as a starter the way I show my wife that porsche 911 and tell her I *need* to get to work faster. I just want it thats all.

2)The sales person who is motovated to sell you top end stuff whether you need it or not because he/she is working on some sort of commission or spiff program. Smart ones will quickly get that they're not going to sell you that one and move on to other more appropriate bikes, but they will give it a shot first. Hey take it for a test ride, dont buy it, but its always fun to ride stuff you would never dream about buying. If you can find a shop that does not work on commission, that will eliminate any sort of $$$ motovation.

3) the sales person that realizes if they can get someone new to enjoy the sport, they (you) will come back and spend more later on all sorts of things including a new more expensive bike a year or 2 down the road. This is the kind of sales person you want to talk to. They will try to talk you into a bike that isnt the bottom of the line, mostly because they want to have fun. And cheap bikes are just that -cheap-. But they wont try to get you to take out a second mortgage either.

Do this- figure out what your budget is. go to your local LBS, get some help trying to figure out what kind of bike it is the *you* are looking for. Hybrid, flat handle bar road bike, mtn bike, whatever. Then ride one that you have no intention of buying what-so-ever, just to get an idea of what that kind of bike can be. Then ride one that is just above your budget (2 or 3 weeks of staying at home on Sat night and taking your lunch to work type of thing) like $100+/-. Then ride a couple in your price range. Ask for a brochure, go out the door and check another bike shop, repeat. Buy the one that is the best mixture of comfort and bells and whistles. Also be sure that you are comfortable with the idea of doing business with these people again, because you will; alot.

AND DONT BUY A BIKE FROM A DEPT STORE!!!!
The bikes there are usually cheap peices of **** put together by the same guy that is working his way upto assembling lawn mowers. And if you have a problem there is ZERO they can do about it. Then you will have to take it over to the LBS where you should have bought the bike in the first place.

Most of Have fun and if someone flames give'm the finger and go out and ride your bike!
 

Mr_Potatohead

New Member
Jun 8, 2004
119
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0
Ronjumps said:
Very good information.

My big fear is going to the LBS and being told the "Pro X1 Sabre" is the best bike for me, and finding out that its really a pice of junk, or I could have spent 100-200 more and gotten a better bike.


Ron

I doubt that will happen. Most bicycle frames in your price range are mass produced in China or Taiwan by the same companies and then the individual brand decals are applied. The components most likely are all Shimano which are the same everywhere.

And most bike shops are going to be within $100 of each other on comparable bikes.

I'd say it's very unlikely you could spend $1000 at a LBS and get "a piece of junk" These aren't cars after all. Bicycles are pretty simple machines, it's hard to f___ them up. And you do pretty much get what you pay for. There is, however, a point of diminishing return.
 

hwttdz

New Member
Sep 28, 2003
241
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My fear with a list like that is that people would not consider bikes not on the list.