Quick Step : Classics conundrum?




Studies need to be made concerning
hemtocrit testing. I read a article written by someone explaining how some people could have high hemtocrit readings without cheating. . I wish I would have saved that article. When I read this article I felt the author had the perspective of someone who wanted to know the truth.
Let's hope someday we do not find out that the testing has treated some athletes unfairly. I am not condoning cheating. But sports need to eliminate the politics of it. And politics are a major component in the search for the truth in this issue.
But the outrage expressed towards Museeuw needs to be spread out among the other convicted cheaters that we worship.

Me ....... My favorite team was the late 70'/early 80's Ti_Raleigh team that was .. well, we know what it was all about.

Virenque is as famous for his doping as he is for his looks .....

Merckx is the poster boy of doping, but his name is injected as one of the "Great ones." Convicted 3 times. Today he would not even be allowed to ride.

Tom Simpson ...... The Brits seem desperate to have a cycling hero of the roads that they overlook the 3 vials located in his rear pocket on the awful day.

Armstrong ........ This has been re-hashed to the ground.

Heras..... This one confuses me.
 
wolfix said:
Studies need to be made concerning hemtocrit testing.
There are plenty! Like all values for investigation results, there is a normal range. The definition of the "normal" range is what 95% of the normal populaion falls between. Thus 5% of normal people will fall outside the "normal" range.

Nobody has said that no normal people are above 50% haematocrit. Some people will be. The UCI etc have declared that it is dangerous for a rider to be racing with a high hct so must take two weeks off. This is different to saying that they have doped. Riders that always have a high hct can get a medical exemption eg Cunego.

What is a little suspicious is the numbers of riders who have hct values of 49.0 - 49.9% whenever they are competing. This value should also fall during the intense exertion of a Grand Tour but rarely does...
 
wolfix said:

Studies need to be made concerning
hemtocrit testing. I read a article written by someone explaining how some people could have high hemtocrit readings without cheating. . I wish I would have saved that article. When I read this article I felt the author had the perspective of someone who wanted to know the truth.
Let's hope someday we do not find out that the testing has treated some athletes unfairly. I am not condoning cheating. But sports need to eliminate the politics of it. And politics are a major component in the search for the truth in this issue.
But the outrage expressed towards Museeuw needs to be spread out among the other convicted cheaters that we worship.

Me ....... My favorite team was the late 70'/early 80's Ti_Raleigh team that was .. well, we know what it was all about.

Virenque is as famous for his doping as he is for his looks .....

Merckx is the poster boy of doping, but his name is injected as one of the "Great ones." Convicted 3 times. Today he would not even be allowed to ride.

Tom Simpson ...... The Brits seem desperate to have a cycling hero of the roads that they overlook the 3 vials located in his rear pocket on the awful day.

Armstrong ........ This has been re-hashed to the ground.

Heras..... This one confuses me.
Taht list ist endless: Walter Godefroot was caught, Anquetil talked about taking doping openly, Zoetemelk was caught etc. etc. etc.
 
funny how Wielinga sucked at Rabobank, yet he's suddenly amazing at Quick Step. We all remember Marc Lotz now don't we?
 
Yeah he was an isolated case........just like museeuw;) :rolleyes:



Dead Star said:
funny how Wielinga sucked at Rabobank, yet he's suddenly amazing at Quick Step. We all remember Marc Lotz now don't we?
 
limerickman said:
Let's be clear and unambiguous, Bobke.

Armstrong wrote two books in which he claimed that he was clean and that he had never ever doped at all, ever.
Lim

I actually have never heard or seen Lance deny EVER doping. I have seen him asked many times and he always gives, to me, a suspicious answer like. "The team is clean, I have never failed a test." This has lead me to speculate that Lance was doping during the motorola days and hope that he didn't cheat after cancer. His books, to my memory, do not claim that he never doped. He seems careful to avoid saying it that directly. An american Sports radio host who I listen to a lot like to have Lance on periodically. After Lance won #5, he had Lance on. They discussed the doping allegations that wouldn't die a bit and then the host said "OK, let's just settle this openly, Have you ever used any performance enhancing drugs?" Lance stammered and stumbled before saying... well, I did use EPO during my cancer treatment which is a drug that has been used to cheat in cycling. He didn't actually answer the question directly.

I find it easy to believe that Lance has tried to use every advantage he could gain without getting caught. My gut instinct tells me that he justifies some of these advantages with a don't ask, don't tell kind of approach. If he ever did use EPO, and I have never heard convincing evidence of this anywhere, that would be really bad news. I would not be the least bit surprised to find out that he has been transfusing his own blood during the Tour. They haven't had much of a way of testing for this have they? If he does his own blood, that would crank up his hematocrit and give him some advantage during the latter stages would it not?

To this point, I have a friend with a theory that most of the peloton draw out a bunch of their own blood right before the start of the Tour, then start transfusing a week or more into the race so they can handle the TTs and mountains. The evidence of this is all of the ridiculous crashes at the first week of the tour. If most of the peloton was a couple of quarts low, it would be easy to get lightheaded when the pace was cranked up at the finish of those early stages. Notice it doesn't happen on the flat stages later in the race when the peloton would be more tired.

OK, I have done it, I dived into a discussion about Lance and doping in the middle of a thread about something else entirely...and an interesting topic at that. What have you people done to me?
 
barnstorm said:
To this point, I have a friend with a theory that most of the peloton draw out a bunch of their own blood right before the start of the Tour, then start transfusing a week or more into the race so they can handle the TTs and mountains. The evidence of this is all of the ridiculous crashes at the first week of the tour. If most of the peloton was a couple of quarts low, it would be easy to get lightheaded when the pace was cranked up at the finish of those early stages. Notice it doesn't happen on the flat stages later in the race when the peloton would be more tired.
They don't donate their own blood so close to a big race as there is a measurable drop in performance. If you are going to do autologous doping like that, donate your own blood in the off season. One problem with this is the stored blood isn't as good as fresh stuff which may explain why Phonak chose homologous blood.

Alternatively, use Epo (microdosing) during the season, get your hct to 60%, take blood out +/- put saline in before the start of the stage to get hct below 50% when the hct checks are done, then go back to the team bus and put the blood back in so you can race at 60%.
 
patch70 said:
They don't donate their own blood so close to a big race as there is a measurable drop in performance. If you are going to do autologous doping like that, donate your own blood in the off season. One problem with this is the stored blood isn't as good as fresh stuff which may explain why Phonak chose homologous blood.

the drop in performance is exactly what I was saying. They have a performance drop for the early flat stages and just hope to hang on for the first week.... thus causing the lightheadedness and crashes. Then, transfuse after that. Nice fresh week-old blood. It has some appeal

Alternatively, use Epo (microdosing) during the season, get your hct to 60%, take blood out +/- put saline in before the start of the stage to get hct below 50% when the hct checks are done, then go back to the team bus and put the blood back in so you can race at 60%.
You and WBT talk a lot about epo microdosing. Wouldn't that be picked up by the new epo test?
 
MJtje said:
Yeah he was an isolated case........just like museeuw;) :rolleyes:

Seriously. Wielinga's suddenly better than Gilbert on Mont Faron :eek: Where the hell did Ten Dam come from too? :D
 
barnstorm said:
You and WBT talk a lot about epo microdosing. Wouldn't that be picked up by the new epo test?
No - the new Epo test will pick up the big weekly doses with moderate accuracy but will not detect daily microdosed Epo. If you stuff up your doses, you might climb up into the detectable zone, eg Heras.
 
patch70 said:
No - the new Epo test will pick up the big weekly doses with moderate accuracy but will not detect daily microdosed Epo. If you stuff up your doses, you might climb up into the detectable zone, eg Heras.
Well this is all supposition isnt it, or are there published studies on dosing regimens.
Geez why do I ask **** like that.

Yes, Lance has denied many many times EVER doping
on Larry King CNN most recently but can we move on from retired cyclists please
 
bobke said:
Well this is all supposition isnt it, or are there published studies on dosing regimens.
Geez why do I ask **** like that.

Yes, Lance has denied many many times EVER doping
on Larry King CNN most recently but can we move on from retired cyclists please
Bobreodehombresueke

I am not kidding when I say I have never heard him give a clear denial of ever having doped. I didn't see the Larry King deal, do you have a transcript?
 
bobke said:
Yes, Lance has denied many many times EVER doping
on Larry King CNN most recently but can we move on from retired cyclists please
Correction on Larry King; Lance did not deny doping he said that "There was not EPO in that bottle" when speaking of the test he gave... he never actually said that he hadn't taken PED's..... big difference in the legal sense of the argument....
 
Well, technically speaking he has taken EPO, they used it boost his red blood cell count when he had cancer.


Where did all this doping talk come from, aren't we meant to be talking about the classics???

If I where quick step I'd use Boonen on the flatter classics and Bettini on the hillier ones. Alternatively have Boonen as your main man and use Bettini to cover the big breaks. Either way Quick-Step should take at least two classics this year.
 
Well about wielinga, he was a very classy rider during the dauphine of 2003, If I remember correctly! He climbed with the best; armstrong and co! Thát's why he went to the TDF that year........but somehow the peloton always goes 100 times faster then in the dauphine and wielinga had to quit the TDF. Boogerd said some very hard words in the dutch press about wielinga. It was something like ''well climbing with the best in the dauphine is something different then in the TDF huh.....I don't understand why he was selected''..

He is/was one of the biggest talents in Holland, but got a lot of knee problems after the dauphine of 2003, and never got to that level again.........

Aaah well quickstep has obviously some magic stuff..........

Dead Star said:
Seriously. Wielinga's suddenly better than Gilbert on Mont Faron :eek: Where the hell did Ten Dam come from too? :D
 

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