RAAM

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Heinz Getzler, Jun 18, 2003.

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  1. "Jeff Potter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > A "Great American Tour" could have tons of different routes and still hop across the US in 2 or 3
    > weeks every year.
    >
    > The Zinger/Classic was put on by ONE GUY, basically.

    uh huh.

    > You could have longer than usual days and more transfers. Or just have the dudes bus a ways each
    > day. We have the FREEWAYS, baby, that Europe doesn't have!

    Autobahn anyone?

    >Smoove and easy to sleep on and we have BUSES galore.

    They've got something better. Trains.

    They've also got something else: an established bike racing fan base.
     


  2. in article [email protected], Jeff Potter at [email protected]
    wrote on 6/19/03 5:37 PM:

    > A "Great American Tour" could have tons of different routes and still hop across the US in 2 or 3
    > weeks every year.
    >
    > The Zinger/Classic was put on by ONE GUY, basically.
    >
    > You could have longer than usual days and more transfers. Or just have the dudes bus a ways each
    > day. We have the FREEWAYS, baby, that Europe doesn't have! Smoove and easy to sleep on and we have
    > BUSES galore.
    >
    > You could connect the dots with worldclass scenery and 200-mile stages and be done in short order
    > and still go from coast to coast each year.
    >
    > The RAAM could be a stage race no problemo.
    >
    > It's a nutty thing right now, with the no-sleep, but it's only, what, 8 days, or 6 days for teams.
    > Just have the whole show stop each night for a decent rest and you can get across the US without
    > any transfers in probably 2 weeks.

    How about just 2 transfers:

    Part 1: Boston to Washington, transfer to Pittsburg. Part 2: Pittsburg to Chicago, transfer to San
    Francisco Part 3: San Francisco to San Diego

    You get all 3 major megalopolises, key for marketing, with only 2 transfers. With a rest day on the
    transfer days, staff could drive the vehicles. The only hard one would be San Fran-Chicago.

    You could also do this in reverse, of course.
     
  3. "Jeff Potter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > The Zinger/Classic was put on by ONE GUY, basically.
    >
    You're right (at least in the early years), but he also started doing it in wide open Colorado in
    the late '70's, before there were many liability issues to deal with and roads were much more
    accessible. Then he gradually made it larger. I don't think it's even possible to race on the Morgul
    Bismarck course anymore, due to subdivisions.

    > You could have longer than usual days and more transfers.

    You also have to comply with UCI standards.
    > Or just have the dudes bus a ways each day.

    Ever tried transfer like that on a multi week stage race? Ain't NOBODY happy 'bout dat.

    >We have the FREEWAYS, baby, that Europe doesn't have! Smoove and easy to sleep on and we have
    >BUSES galore.

    Minor league baseball teams probably don't even travel by bus anymore.
    >
    > You could connect the dots with worldclass scenery and 200-mile stages and
    be
    > done in short order and still go from coast to coast each year.

    Who wants to ride 200 mile stages day in and day out? How slow would the peloton go?
     
  4. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    Antti Salonen wrote:
    > Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Nonsense! You're thinking in a box. Our traditions from 2000+ years ago are in many ways more
    >>noble, beautiful and fascinating than those of Europe.
    >
    >
    > This is probably a stupid question, but whose traditions are you talking about? For a vast
    > majority of Americans, "your" traditions from 2000+ years ago are the same as European traditions.
    >
    > -as
    >

    American Indians. I've forgotten much of my European history, but weren't there plenty of cultures
    wiped out over the centuries? Cultures that had their own traditions, many of which are lost
    forever. Some of ours from that time, at least, are still alive. I honestly can't think of anything
    that old that survives, but we've got plenty of 1000 and 1500 year old stuff sitting around in our
    deserts and plains.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  5. David Ryan

    David Ryan Guest

    Carl Sundquist wrote:
    >
    > Who wants to ride 200 mile stages day in and day out?

    That was once normal in the Tour de France - on bad roads.

    > How slow would the peloton go?

    As slow as it takes to catch any a**hole break on a given day :) They are not riding balls-out now,
    as a comparison of the normal peloton speed to a team time trial clearly demonstrates.

    Base the prizes in part on average speed. Should get the pace up.
     
  6. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >

    >
    > Naw, how about The Spanish Inquisition?
    >
    >
    > That's it, The Spanish Inquisition. All we have is the Salem Witch
    Trials,
    > that pales by comparison.
    >

    We have the modern day corporate backed inquisitions. Not very well known but very real are the
    latest rash of Grand Juries targeting activists. You better answer the subpoena that calls you to a
    court 3000 miles away or the FBI will come and arrest you (I guess the trip costs less that way).
    You're not allowed a lawyer. If you want to plead the fifth you get 18 months in jail for contempt.
    All because you sent a letter or a fax to a company saying you disagree with their business
    practices.

    http://www.nocompromise.org/issues/06gjs.html http://santacruz.indymedia.org/feature/display/4676
    http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/06/1620183.php
     
  7. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >

    >
    > Naw, how about The Spanish Inquisition?
    >
    >
    > That's it, The Spanish Inquisition. All we have is the Salem Witch
    Trials,
    > that pales by comparison.
    >

    TRAIL OF TEARS

    The Trail of Tears refers to the route followed by fifteen thousand Cherokee during their 1838
    removal and forced march from Georgia to Indian Territory (present-day Oklahoma).

    In 1791, a U.S. treaty had recognized Cherokee territory in Georgia as independent, and the Cherokee
    people had created a thriving republic with a written constitution. For decades, the state of
    Georgia sought to enforce its authority over the Cherokee Nation, but its efforts had little effect
    until the election of President Andrew Jackson, a longtime supporter of Indian removal. Although the
    Supreme Court declared Congress's 1830 Indian removal bill unconstitutional (Worcester v. Georgia,
    1832), the national and state harassment continued, culminating in the rounding up of the Cherokee
    by troops in 1838.

    The Cherokee were forced to abandon their property, livestock, and ancestral burial grounds and move
    to camps in Tennessee. From there, in the midst of severe winter weather, they were marched another
    eight hundred miles to Indian Territory. An estimated four thousand people - over 25 percent of the
    Cherokee Nation - died during the march.

    The Trail of Tears, the path the Cherokee followed, became a national monument in 1987, serving as a
    symbol of the wrongs suffered by Indians at the hands of the U.S. government.

    historychannel.com
     
  8. "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Well my idea is to capture the interia of the RAAM. Perhaps we could morph it into a stage race
    > > format???
    > >
    >
    > I really don't see that happening, although the blossoming ofthe RAAM team event has been great.
    > RAAM and stage races are just two different breeds with two and too different mindsets to morph.
    It would depend upon what their race status. I am not certain if the UCI or USCF has jurisdiction. I
    believe they do because when lawsuit over the NORBA and Pro cycling league took place the courts
    dertermined that the USCF and UCI have jurisdiction on all bicycle races in the US. This would allow
    a proposal to a sponsor to enhance the format of the race.. They, and their participants,
    > should each be appreciated for what they are.
     
  9. Dashi Toshii

    Dashi Toshii Guest

    "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Antti Salonen wrote:
    > > Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Nonsense! You're thinking in a box. Our traditions from 2000+ years ago are in many ways more
    > >>noble, beautiful and fascinating than those of Europe.
    > >
    > >
    > > This is probably a stupid question, but whose traditions are you talking about? For a vast
    > > majority of Americans, "your" traditions from 2000+ years ago are the same as European
    > > traditions.
    > >
    > > -as
    > >
    >
    > American Indians. I've forgotten much of my European history, but weren't there plenty of cultures
    > wiped out over the centuries? Cultures that had their own traditions, many of which are lost
    > forever. Some of ours from that time, at least, are still alive. I honestly can't think of
    > anything that old that survives, but we've got plenty of 1000 and 1500 year old stuff sitting
    > around in our deserts and plains.

    I've got Bonsai trees older than that! <g>

    Dashii
     
  10. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]le.com...
    > "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Well my idea is to capture the interia of the RAAM. Perhaps we could morph it into a stage
    > > > race format???
    > > >
    > >
    > > I really don't see that happening, although the blossoming ofthe RAAM
    team
    > > event has been great. RAAM and stage races are just two different
    breeds
    > > with two and too different mindsets to morph.
    > It would depend upon what their race status. I am not certain if the UCI or USCF has jurisdiction.
    > I believe they do because when lawsuit over the NORBA and Pro cycling league took place the courts
    > dertermined that the USCF and UCI have jurisdiction on all bicycle races in the US. This would
    > allow a proposal to a sponsor to enhance the format of the race.. They, and their participants,
    > > should each be appreciated for what they are.

    While the UCI/USAC is supposed to control all bicycle racing in the US, the USAC has effectively
    ceeded control/sanctioning of ultramarathon events to UMCA. This was discussed here at some length a
    year or so ago. Not so stage racing. A stage race as you propose would be wonderful but I doubt it
    will occur here in the US at any point in the next decade. However, RAAM with its
    eccentric/obsessive participants will continue and probably grow as the team aspect has over the
    past few years.
     
  11. David Ryan

    David Ryan Guest

    Dashi Toshii wrote:
    >
    > "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Antti Salonen wrote:
    > > > Raptor <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >>Nonsense! You're thinking in a box. Our traditions from 2000+ years ago are in many ways more
    > > >>noble, beautiful and fascinating than those of Europe.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > This is probably a stupid question, but whose traditions are you talking about? For a vast
    > > > majority of Americans, "your" traditions from 2000+ years ago are the same as European
    > > > traditions.
    > > >
    > > > -as
    > > >
    > >
    > > American Indians. I've forgotten much of my European history, but weren't there plenty of
    > > cultures wiped out over the centuries? Cultures that had their own traditions, many of which are
    > > lost forever. Some of ours from that time, at least, are still alive. I honestly can't think of
    > > anything that old that survives, but we've got plenty of 1000 and 1500 year old stuff sitting
    > > around in our deserts and plains.
    >
    > I've got Bonsai trees older than that! <g>
    >
    > Dashii

    We have 4000 year old sequoias. On a bicycle ride in 1995 I stopped at the Medicine Wheel in
    Wyoming. It's 2000 years old. And above 10,000 feet (3000m)
     
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