race report: Armory Track Meet

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Shoes: recently acquired some flats -- Tiger Paws. I'd road-tested them

for

Quoted message said:

a 200m jog/run/sprint outside and loved them immediately. Extremely

flexible,

Quoted message said:

and despite what I've heard about flats, I found the cushioning very satisfactory, even for
jogging.

I tried a pair in the fall. Comfortable running shoes for sure, although they're a prime example of
shoe companies trying to disguise a lightweight trainer as a flat. The worst offender of this is the
NB330, which actually has a medial post, along with being quite beefy.

Anyway, another shoe you may like that has a similar design is the NB rc240. I find they last a lot
longer. I usually get about 2 months, more if I have a couple pairs that I rotate. They are even
momre flexible, with no nasty medial posts or other rigid areas in the midsole, like 99% of other
shoes DO have.

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most insecure people are the ones you see, putting
other people down constantly."

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Date: Thurs 26 Feb 04 Race: Track meet consisting of a mile, relay, 400 and 800 races in that
order. Conditions: Indoor. Warm, extremely dry air probably due to heating or something. A lot of
people were coughing.

Recently, the local running organisation (NYRR) scheduled a series of four indoor track meets. I
was very enthusiastic about doing one or two, but the first two were scheduled in my base building
period, and I missed the third due to a hideous cold. So the fourth was all that was left. So I
decided I'd have to run at least the mile and one other race. On advice of a team mate, I brought
some cough candy. This was probably one of the best pieces of running advice I have received in a
long time -- people at the meet were coughing like it was a war zone or something.

On to the races: the whole thing was a bit chaotic -- they lined everyone up, called out times in
ascending order so for the mile, someone would say "4:00,
4:01, ... " like an auctioneer, and people would step up until they had enough people for a heat.
Many people "downrated" themselves -- I was almost lapped in the mile race!

The track was a 200m indoor track with banked corners. For the mile and 800, they used staggered
starts where a group of people started forward on the outside and had to run the first lap in the
outer lanes.

Shoes: recently acquired some flats -- Tiger Paws. I'd road-tested them for a 200m jog/run/sprint
outside and loved them immediately. Extremely flexible, and despite what I've heard about flats, I
found the cushioning very satisfactory, even for jogging.

But with flats when the competition is wearing spikes, you are at a sizeable disadvantage. This
isn't as bad in 1500-5000 because the speeds are lower, but there's a big difference in 800 and
shorter events: Spikes grip much better in the turns, and the advantage is greater indoors. The
difference is often 1-2 seconds per lap.

Quoted message said:

One thing I saw that they didn't have at the road races were large numbers of college and high
school runners. Some of these guys were *fast*, amazing turnover. I felt like a slug out there.

Here in SoCal, it's fairly common for high school xc/1600/3200 types to use 5K races as overdistance
training in the winter/spring if they don't have a race that weekend. So there are often the fastest
kids running 5 minute pace in road races. What you describe is, I think, why road racers don't run
in track meets too often. But if you run in a college 5000, instead of 800 or 1500, you'll probably
find an 18:00 5K more competitive than the equivalent time would be in 800.

Quoted message said:

First race was the mile. I started with a group that supposedly went from about
5:00 to 5:15. First lap, I held a steady pace for about 37-8. A little fast but OK. Nearly everyone
went out at what I thought was a suicidal pace. I sat back and focused on my own race and tried
to ignore the noise. After a few laps, it occurred to me that some of these guys were just damn
fast and their starting pace was just fine -- for them. Half way in about 2:36. Overtook some
people who probably shouldn't have chased the leaders at the start, to finish in about 5:06
(don't have the offical time yet) -- not dead last, but not far from it.

I warned somebody else on r.r last week to expect a suicidal pace. You can take advantage of the
kids' inexperieice to pick some off. In a 1500 I try to stay at the tail end of the lead pack--just
barely in contact--through 400. Then if you maintain your pace through 800, some of the idiots (now
in lactate city) will come back to you. But you can't do this in an 800 or 400 indoors because the
race is tto short and it's too hard to pass people.

Quoted message said:

It was a humbling experience -- you know, if you're 50th or so in a road race, you might look and
feel pretty good. If you're the 50th fastest competitor in a track meet, you probably look like a
slug compared to the others. But this was good for my times -- the presence of the faster runners
creates the illusion that the pace is "too slow" which makes it easier to run fast.

Then there was a huge relay. I enjoyed what I felt was a well-deserved break, before getting ready
for the 400. Lined up with a high 50s/low 60s group. Not much to say except that I came dead last,
but stayed reasonably close to the pack for about 61-62.

You can sometimes use careful pacing to pass people here too. World class guys can only accelerate
for 60-70 meters, so every race over 60 is--to some extent--an endurance race. The optimum pacing
for most people is to hold back .5-1 second in the first 100 of a 200, and 1-2 seconds in the
first 200 of a
400. You can train for this in a 400 by doing a 4 X 200 workout midweek before a race: Run the
first 200 all-out for time, and the rest 2 seconds slower on pace. Then on race day, you run
at the pace you trained at that week.

Quoted message said:

Then there was the 800. I decided I'd just do this to put an 800m time on the books. I hung back
with the slower runners this time -- they were in the last group and I was still tired from the
400. In the group before me, local runner Sid Howard was attempting to set an American 800m record
in the 65-9 age group. The record stood at 2:24. I was looking around trying to work out which one
was Sid -- none of them looked close to 65. I worked it out eventually by following the commentary.
He finished in 2:19.

After cheering Sid on, it was my turn to race. A bunch of the runners went out very hard for them,
but about right for me. Stayed on their tails and coasted to the 2 lap mark in 1:10. Then on the
third lap, I unleashed my "kick" and stormed to the front (I think I did a 33 second lap), and once
you do that, there's no turning back: 100% effort from there. Gritting my teeth and hanging on for
my life, finished up in about 2:19.

Given that you had already raced a mile and a 400, you should be very happy with your time.

Quoted message said:

Overall, a very enjoyable experience. I'd recommend jumping into a track meet just to see what it's
like even to people who haven't tried it. Be forewarned that the level of competition at these
things is pretty high though (I felt like a slug running a mile in just over 5) -- I'd recommend
doing some homework on the expected level of competition up-front.

This is correct, but something else should be said. The kids I see at NCAA meets are all very
nice. A week ago in Reno, I was probably the only person in the whole meet over 30, and several
college kids came up to me to ask how I did (didn't get out of the blocks). If, as an older
runner, you're willing to just line up and race (no age group stuff), they really respect you. But
directors at major events (such as Millrose) are cancelling age-group races because, frankly,
nobody gives a damn.

Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson

In article said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Shoes: recently acquired some flats -- Tiger Paws. I'd road-tested them for a 200m jog/run/sprint
outside and loved them immediately. Extremely flexible, and despite what I've heard about flats, I
found the cushioning very satisfactory, even for jogging.

But with flats when the competition is wearing spikes, you are at a sizeable disadvantage. This
isn't as bad in 1500-5000 because the speeds are lower, but there's a big difference in 800 and
shorter events: Spikes grip much better in the turns, and the advantage is greater indoors. The
difference is often 1-2 seconds per lap.

Yeah, this is probably just one of many novice errors on my part. As you can see, I'm very new to
this track game -- my first race on an indoor track. I think most of the kids were wearing spikes,
while a lot of the road runners just wore their normal flats.

Quoted message said:

Here in SoCal, it's fairly common for high school xc/1600/3200 types to use 5K races as
overdistance training in the winter/spring if they don't have a race that weekend. So there are
often the fastest kids running 5 minute pace in road races. What you describe is, I think, why
road racers don't run in track meets too often. But if you run in a college 5000, instead of
800 or 1500, you'll probably find an 18:00 5K more competitive than the equivalent time would
be in 800.

Yeah, I noticed this. I was in about the 18:00 range in college, and I wasn't exactly the fastest,
but I wasn't a slug either, at least in 3k and up. I remember trying a 400 once, I could do it in
about 60 then. And I was one hell of a slug (-; I think I would have needed mid 50s to look decent,
and close to 50 to look good.

Quoted message said:

I warned somebody else on r.r last week to expect a suicidal pace. You can take advantage of the
kids' inexperieice to pick some off. In a 1500 I try to stay at the tail end of the lead pack--
just barely in contact--through 400. Then if you maintain your pace through 800, some of the
idiots (now in lactate city) will come back to you. But you can't do this in an 800 or 400 indoors
because the race is tto short and it's too hard to pass people.

Yeah, the relative difficulty of overtaking was one thing that was new about this experience.
Something I wasn't really prepared for. Wasn't a factor in the 400, worked out OK in the 800 too
because by the time I was doing much passing (on the back of lap 2), the pack was already broken up.

But in the mile, I really felt it in part of the race. I remember having to surge in lane 2 so that
I could get back into a spot in lane 1, and remember noting that doing that surge probably cost me a
couple of seconds.

Quoted message said:

You can sometimes use careful pacing to pass people here too. World class guys can only accelerate
for 60-70 meters, so every race over 60 is--to some extent--an endurance race. The optimum pacing
for most people is to hold back 0.5-1 second in the first 100 of a 200, and 1-2 seconds in the
first 200 of a 400. You can train for this in a 400 by doing a 4 X 200 workout midweek before a
race: Run the first 200 all-out for time, and the rest 2 seconds slower on pace. Then on race day,
you run at the pace you trained at that week.

...

Quoted message said:

Given that you had already raced a mile and a 400, you should be very happy with your time.

Thanks for all the tips -- next time I do a track meet, I'll be looking to beat those "reference
times" I've set, so I'll do more serious preparation. Maybe get some spikes too.

I was very happy with the way I puhed myself in the 800, I'm glad the time looks good (I have
absolutely no intuition for comparing 400/800/mile times)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

In article said:

I tried a pair in the fall. Comfortable running shoes for sure, although they're a prime example
of shoe companies trying to disguise a lightweight trainer as a flat.

Thanks for the tip. Since they're the only "flat" I've ran in, I don't have many reference points.
To me it feels like a light and flexible shoe.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, another shoe you may like that has a similar design is the NB rc240. I find they last a
lot longer. I usually get about 2 months, more if I have a couple pairs that I rotate. They are
even momre flexible, with no nasty medial posts or other rigid areas in the midsole, like 99% of
other shoes DO have.

Thanks. I'll take a look at these. Yes, you're right that I'd prefer not to have any "stability"
doodads. I picked up a pair of DS racers that have such a thing, and I'll probably still use them
for training and longer races, but I'm more interested in the more flexible shoes.

PS can't believe they canned those RC 150s or whatever it is (you know, the super lightweight flat
that Global used to wear)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗