Race Tactics 2010



frenchyge said:
Had another thought here, but forgot to post it at the time for some reason. :eek:

Actually, I think this ultimately leads back towards our months-ago discussion/debate about the loose association between FTP and CTL.

Ha ha, yes yes, I remember that quite well. Interesting because my educated guesstimate (91.89% probability of being correct) is that most of the riders in my cat are working << CTL than I've got. Again, as was said in aforementioned thread, that doesn't mean I have a higher FT or that they have a lower FT. In fact given how some of them are built (petite, small frame types) they might well have a higher w/kg.



frenchyge said:
'Out-recovering' probably isn't completely what I had in mind (yes, recovery is mostly determined by metabolic fitness), although the result over a longer period of time is the same. What I was intending to describe is that fatigue is a complex process and affects riders differently. Strong riders may experience cramps, back/neck strain, be heat affected, dehydrate, slightly bonk, etc. which can limit their performance at the end of a race below what their FTP might suggest. Some riders regularly train over distances in excess of their race distances, while others seldom do. Alternately, riders have different drop rates in the linear (right-hand) portion of their MMP curves, which can mean that a rider with slightly lower FTP (than another) can produce slightly more avg power over intervals longer than ~2hrs because they drop off less. Obviously, doing slightly less work in a break helps this, but my point was that unknown physiological factors also play out over a longer term. Some people have suggested that higher CTL could help flatten the power drop-off rate beyond 1-hr, but at least it indicates that the body has had a greater stimulus to adapt to fatigue in addition to building power.

Can't argue with any of that frenchyge, it is pretty spot-on. It could be like you mentioned because of (lack of) hydration, hypoglycemia, MMP/CP/NP duration-curve limits, or shape of the that curve, etc. A way of saying that fatigue has multiple causes or multi-factorial for the more verbose amongst us.



frenchyge said:
In a race it's possible to find yourself hanging by your teeth at one point in a race, only to find that by the end that you appear to be on better footing relative to those who were nearly dropping you earlier. Bottom line is that when you recognize the winning move happening, it's worth going 100% to stay in it because 1) it's less likely that you'll be able to run them down again once you drop off the wheel, and 2) you never know how the end of the race will play out, but you have to survive the selection in order to be in it.

I thought lanierb's anecdote was instructive. One person seems to be dictating everything to his/her rivals but then suddenly the wheels fall off and that individual is off the back. Know thy limits? Possibly one of those power proverbs someone came up with but it might help to know what you are capable of and what you aren't...

Re: Going 100% in a race

Curious if say there was a break just starting, a promising looking one with the right numbers and riders, would you go 100% to get on that break if it meant that failure to latch on would mean getting dropped not only by the break obviously but by the peloton as well because you blew all your bickies in one go? Or am I asking the 'what type of racer are you' quiz question? :)


Lanierb: I'm fascinated by that account in part because I keep thinking to myself, what was going on in the minds of the other riders during those multiple climbs that kept them fighting to hang on to that group when they were already at their redline? This might be indicative of a newbie racer mentality of thinking obviously.
 
DancenMacabre said:
Curious if say there was a break just starting, a promising looking one with the right numbers and riders, would you go 100% to get on that break if it meant that failure to latch on would mean getting dropped not only by the break obviously but by the peloton as well because you blew all your bickies in one go? Or am I asking the 'what type of racer are you' quiz question? :)

Sure there are going to hundreds of judgement calls to make during the course of a race. Would I give everything to jump into a break that was just forming? No, because what would I do there once I arrived completely exhausted?** The other option is to wait and hope for the break to fail or others to take up the work. Sometimes that means kicking yourself for 30 miles knowing the top-6 spots just rolled off the front and you missed it. Ce la vie.

Would I go 100% to *stay* in a break or group that it appeared was going to go on to win? Yes, because what could I possibly gain by holding something in reserve and dropping out of the lead group? The other option is to drop off, riding alone now and expending more energy for less speed than before or hoping to be swept up by a group of weaker riders and then have to contest with them for the 1st finishing spot behind the group I just dropped out of. See the difference? I wouldn't hold anything in reserve if it meant giving up the draft of the leading group.

** actually I have given 100% to bridge across to the leading group because I was 100% certain that the winner would come from that group and there was no one left in my group with legs to chase. In that race I was working for a teammate and once I recognized the situation I slapped him on the ass and told him to ride my wheel across the gap to the break. Well, it was moderately uphill and while I was blocking the crosswind for him, he didn't know to control my pace until it was too late and he couldn't hold my wheel any longer. At that point he fell off and I had to fully commit to soloing the rest of the way across the gap in hopes of salvaging a decent team finish. I did just reach the 3 leaders but by then you could have knocked my over with a feather. When they recognized that another dangerous rider had bridged up and was trying to catch his breath, they gave a little surge and spit me right out again. Ultimately, I was swept up by the group that I'd come from and had a few miles to rest and think about the sprint for 4th.
 
DancenMacabre said:
Clicking into the big ring, I got myself into the mindset of a hard training ride and would think of it as a 15 mile solo TT. The wind was nasty though and my shades were dotted with raindrops, so I focused on trying to keep ahead of the pack and forgot about the leaders, since I couldn't see them anyway. The miles started to fall away and I began passing stragglers from the other race groups. I'd glance back every few minutes, terrified that the pack would suddenly be behind me, but they nowhere in sight. I was in a sort of no-man's land. I kept pushing myself to go harder and harder and stay in a good rhythm. It was more mentally challenging than anything else when you can't see who you are chasing as well as who is chasing you....all you see is road and the faces of cracked riders from other cat's. It is a bit grim actually...

Then about 3 miles from the finish I unexpectedly caught sight of 2 familiar looking jersey's. Apparently two of the three leaders had fallen back or been dropped by their initial breakaway companion. Suddenly there was someone/something tangible to chase. Turning over the gear, I started to close in and realized they were going to be caught. They looked back and saw me when I was about 100 meters back. It didn't seem like their pace increased so I got up to them fairly quickly. One of them was cracking though and she started to go backwards. That left only two of us with about a mile to go.

I knew we'd play a bit of cat-and-mouse from here on out. The other rider launched an attack not longer after I caught up. Probably she figured I'd used up a lot of energy in the chase and that I'd have little left. There was a lot of truth in that but I was able to stay on her wheel and she failed to get away. The pace slowed again. Then I saw the finish line maybe 300-400 meters away and thought, ok we are going to sprint for it. She was up front and I just sat on her wheel. With about 200 meters to go, she launched but I was well prepared and was in her draft readily. At about the 75-100 meter mark I let fly as hard as I could and passed her to take the sprint by about 7-8 bike lengths.

The power file turns out to not be particularly impressive - no PB's or huge numbers, I've done better on most training days. Although I did get a nice 60 minutes @ L4 during my flyer. IF for 2-1/2 hours was in the high L3/low L4 which sounds about right. I was hella pleased with the effort. A few hours earlier I had debated not even racing, then would have been happy just to finish, and now there I was with a nice second-place finish.
wow what a great report. Well done, Dancen. Ain't that a *****!... you get caught sleeping at the back of the bunch and the break moves clear why you're chasing to get back on. You recover briefly and then dig deep and make an incredible effort to brifge across - I did that in a vets race once for around forty minutes - its a real confidence boost especially if like yourself you make it. I'm sure your first race win won't be too far away. Chapeau :)