frenchyge said:Had another thought here, but forgot to post it at the time for some reason.
Actually, I think this ultimately leads back towards our months-ago discussion/debate about the loose association between FTP and CTL.
Ha ha, yes yes, I remember that quite well. Interesting because my educated guesstimate (91.89% probability of being correct) is that most of the riders in my cat are working << CTL than I've got. Again, as was said in aforementioned thread, that doesn't mean I have a higher FT or that they have a lower FT. In fact given how some of them are built (petite, small frame types) they might well have a higher w/kg.
frenchyge said:'Out-recovering' probably isn't completely what I had in mind (yes, recovery is mostly determined by metabolic fitness), although the result over a longer period of time is the same. What I was intending to describe is that fatigue is a complex process and affects riders differently. Strong riders may experience cramps, back/neck strain, be heat affected, dehydrate, slightly bonk, etc. which can limit their performance at the end of a race below what their FTP might suggest. Some riders regularly train over distances in excess of their race distances, while others seldom do. Alternately, riders have different drop rates in the linear (right-hand) portion of their MMP curves, which can mean that a rider with slightly lower FTP (than another) can produce slightly more avg power over intervals longer than ~2hrs because they drop off less. Obviously, doing slightly less work in a break helps this, but my point was that unknown physiological factors also play out over a longer term. Some people have suggested that higher CTL could help flatten the power drop-off rate beyond 1-hr, but at least it indicates that the body has had a greater stimulus to adapt to fatigue in addition to building power.
Can't argue with any of that frenchyge, it is pretty spot-on. It could be like you mentioned because of (lack of) hydration, hypoglycemia, MMP/CP/NP duration-curve limits, or shape of the that curve, etc. A way of saying that fatigue has multiple causes or multi-factorial for the more verbose amongst us.
frenchyge said:In a race it's possible to find yourself hanging by your teeth at one point in a race, only to find that by the end that you appear to be on better footing relative to those who were nearly dropping you earlier. Bottom line is that when you recognize the winning move happening, it's worth going 100% to stay in it because 1) it's less likely that you'll be able to run them down again once you drop off the wheel, and 2) you never know how the end of the race will play out, but you have to survive the selection in order to be in it.
I thought lanierb's anecdote was instructive. One person seems to be dictating everything to his/her rivals but then suddenly the wheels fall off and that individual is off the back. Know thy limits? Possibly one of those power proverbs someone came up with but it might help to know what you are capable of and what you aren't...
Re: Going 100% in a race
Curious if say there was a break just starting, a promising looking one with the right numbers and riders, would you go 100% to get on that break if it meant that failure to latch on would mean getting dropped not only by the break obviously but by the peloton as well because you blew all your bickies in one go? Or am I asking the 'what type of racer are you' quiz question?
Lanierb: I'm fascinated by that account in part because I keep thinking to myself, what was going on in the minds of the other riders during those multiple climbs that kept them fighting to hang on to that group when they were already at their redline? This might be indicative of a newbie racer mentality of thinking obviously.