racers 'fess up, do you prefer dura ace?

[patch70]

On the issue of crank stiffness, just because the superioritty of DA may not be perceptible to the rider, doesn’t means the benefits exists as only numbers in the laboratory. You don’t have to feel the benefit for it to be there.

This is one of those marketing areas where there is a lot of rubbish that is spread to encourage people to justify spending money unnecessarily.

Any decent crank will not bend except for microscopic amounts. If a 'bad' crank flexes 0.1mm and a 'stiff' crank flexes 0.05mm, the latter is sold as '50% stiffer'. Can a human body feel the 0.05mm difference? From neurophysiological testing of proprioception and two-point discrimination of the lower limb, absolutely not.

The only actual functional difference is that a stiff crank eg DA will last 30 years whereas a less stiff crank eg Record will last 28 years before potentially breaking due to metal fatigue (provided no crashes that affect this). How many cranks have you seen break from metal fatigue? Are you planning on keeping your cranks for 28 - 30 years? The actual functional difference, even if you are Petacchi, is nil.

What is going to flex or move in an undesirable direction during pedalling?
1. Slight dorsiflexion of the ankle joint (>2mm)
2. Compression of the sole of the foot as well as sock & shoe liner (>1mm)
3. Compression of the articular cartilage of the knees, hips & ankles (>1mm)
4. Movement around the bottom braket or chain stays (?1mm)
5. Microscopic flex in the crank (small fraction of 1mm)
6. Microscopic chain stretch (very small fraction of 1mm)

If you think you can feel the ~0.01mm less flex in a DA crank compared to any other crank, then you are dreaming. If you think it is making a functional difference to your riding, you are dreaming.

 

[a1086528]

Exactly! I can`t imagine why some cyclists like that thumb! There is a big distance between up-shifter and thumb which makes shifting very dificult, especially when you`re standing on pedals and you must shift down fast (very often in a race). I like campa because it`s a lot more elegant, but I would never buy it, just because that stupid thumb and very small levers! Shimano is a lot more fit for use, the only bad thing is look of new big levers.

Ride Media Magazine Issue28: Cadel Evans Professionals' Bike pg74
'One of the things i like about campy is that you dont have any cables anywhere and for me it feels more robust...for me the downshift with the thumb is a fraction easier when sprinting or climbing. When riding on top of the bars, i think this design is ergonomically better. When i'm climbing and my hands are extended it takes a little extra effort to reach around with shimano.'

There you have it a professionals opinion.

I'm a campy guy, have used shimano in the past, but reckon that at the lower end quality of mirage,veloce,centaur are a lot better than sora,tiagra and 105. your thoughts?

checking the 20 protour teams, 11 use campy and 9 use shimano.

 

[patch70]

checking the 20 protour teams, 11 use campy and 9 use shimano

That just reflects sponsorship deals though!

 

[rooman]

That just reflects sponsorship deals though!

does it?

ShimaNO and Campy both pitch to all the teams.....the riders have huge input into what they want.....and get....granted, sometimes, the bike comes with the ensemble and that's that (ie Giant, Trek) which reflects a deal in bed between Trek , Giant and ShimaNO)..I know many riders who have dumped their ShimaNo off their Treks and Giants and equally quite a few who have dropped Campy off their Bianchi's....and Cannondales..

at the end of the day ( my quote before ) its about personal wants and geography... ( see post above)...

Does it really matter what any pro rides?. All that matters is that in the area where you live, you can get reliable service and parts at a respectable price....

As I said...if I was in the US more, and I rode there on my own bike I would have ShimaNO, ( just like that way of spelling ), and anywhere else in the world it is Campagnolo.... which just tipps the scale for me on elegance, functionality, speed, and ergonomics for my particular hands and actions....

what ever you like, need, want is your choice....and ar'nt you glad you have them ( well up to a point in the US , you havnt got too much choice), but elsewhere around the world choices exists and....vive le choice.

 

[Special ed]

The last time I bought Campy, we had down-tube shifters and 6/7 speed cassettes, C-Record Delta brakes and Look made the only clipless pedal. (Good God, I'm dating myself!) I love Campy, but when I built my last bike, I prefered the hoods and shifting of Dura Ace (still do) and nobody I knew rode Campy or had the tools and the sole backwoods LBS charged extra to work on it. I think the next road bike I build will be Italian steel with Record. Sometimes you just hafta go with the good classic stuff.

 

[F1_Fan]

I have personally owned both and prefer Dura Ace. I just never got used to the thumb shifting of the Campy Ergopower shifters. It certainly wasn't a hinderence, it just never felt quite right. However I also used Shimano for years before trying the Campy so I may have just been used to the Shimano STI shape and style.

I love everything about Dura-Ace 10 except for the FD downshift. Feels like the lever is going to snap. My old bike has Dura-Ace 8 and the FD shifting is much, much smoother.

 

[Hypnospin]

i noticed this as i check out the fd shift action on a bike in the shop. upon asking the surly know it all shop dude who ignores me for never spending a dime, he claimed this would not "be like that" on the road.

dropped chain, anyone?

i do not know for certain if he rides on the road beyond the parking lot at all.

I love everything about Dura-Ace 10 except for the FD downshift. Feels like the lever is going to snap. My old bike has Dura-Ace 8 and the FD shifting is much, much smoother.

 

[tmctguer]

i am not a racer, but i'll chime in anyway. i have a bike with Campagnolo Record and one with DuraAce.

i prefer the DuraAce front chain ring shifter because it is really fast. the Campagnolo Record's is slow and you've got to really push the lever a long way to engage the chain ring change, particularly going from small to large ring.

i prefer the Campagnolo Record for rear gear shifting. i love the thumb shifter because i ride most of the time with my hands on top of my bars, not grasping the brake levers or drops. further, the DuraAce seems to have a gear in the rear ring that slips quite frequently when downshifting (either 6th or 7th from either 7th or 8th). this may be a cable being a bit loose, but i recall this occuring since the bike was new. i really hate this because i usually downshift in the offending gear when i'm hammering. i don't think it is just my bike either. i was in a very fast group ride shortly after i bought the bike and the guy next to me had the exact same problem and almost took down 3 riders. he, too *****ed about the slippage.

if i had to choose 1 or the other, i would go with Campagnolo Record.

 

[JAPANic]

Living in Japan we are smothered in Shimano. Hard to find any Campo stuff in the shops unless you order it specifically.

One of my friends just got a New De Rosa Merak with Campo and after 3 weeks of trying to get used to it he switched back to Dura -Ace. Possibly because that is what he is used to.

I've never used Campo but would like to. I recently borrowed a bike that had thumb shifters on it. (strange old brand) possibly like Campo, and I couldn't get used to it either.

My Dura-Ace works well, but my crappy Shimano 105 on my traning bike feels better. (nice finger grooves thT fit my hand well).

In other countries are the price differences minimal between the 2?

 

[Catabolic_Jones]

I have Campy Mirage on my training and commuting bike and Dura Ace on my racing bike.


The Campy Mirage works way better. The front derailleur on the Dura Ace, going from big to small ring is incredibly clunky. And the rear derailleur, after 5 trips to the mechanic, is still skipping going both down and up.

That's not to say that Campy is better (although I do love the thumb downshift); perhaps I just got a bum derailleur, or a poor set-up.