No, but you can eliminate some factors and narrow down the potential causal factors, including cumulative aerobic stress and usage of anaerobic work capacity. I'd rather start with some quality data and then go to subjective factors rather than have no data at all.velobob said:
Not necessarily "why," but you can tell whether that was really the case or not. Sometimes races that feel like "bad races" end up being personal best performances from a power standpoint, where we just got our clocks cleaned by a particularly strong field.velobob said:
Sure, but if the power is there, then those are pretty much eliminated as factors for why we didn't win a particular race.velobob said:
To that, I'd have to say BS. That may be true for the pros who are working with your coach...but they're in the vast minority. I'd guess that the average poster on here spends more time and has more resources to perform their best...their best is just slower than that of pros.WarrenG said:
RipVanCommittee said:
Well, the elite amateur team I'm on has had 12-14 guys turn pro over the last 7 years or so...one of whom road for one of the lauded teams you've mentioned above--2 are on pro tour teams, the rest on continental teams. I'm in regular contact with over half of them, and train regularly with 4-5 of them.WarrenG said:
RipVanCommittee said:
This is fairly typical and is due to the drafting benefit. The same thing holds for fast group training rides. Of course, you could go to the front more often, but that often serves no purpose because you are subjecting only yourself to stress.fergie said:
Yes, you can perform such analysis, but you need to look at more than just NP (which measures the cumulative aerobic intensity). You need to do match analysis because the attacks will be anaerobic efforts and that draws on a separate capacity, your anaerobic work capacity.fergie said:
RapDaddyo said:
You can't tell too much by looking at only the NP/AP relationship unless NP is very near your MP for the duration. In the latter case, then yes, you tapped into your AWC significantly. Let's say your MP for the ride duration is 225W and your NP/AP for the ride was 210W/180W. You can't really tell much about how much you used your AWC. But, let's say your NP/AP is 225W/180W. You definitely used your AWC in the latter ride, repeatedly. The attacks that would have the greatest effect are those on climbs where they can't benefit from the draft. If you go hard and steady on the flat, you're draining your tank but you're not draining their tank, so you're just getting the group to the fnish line faster. Of course, you can always drive them nuts with endless surges. If they get p*ssed off, tell them you're still figuring out how to ride with power.fergie said:
RapDaddyo said:You can't tell too much by looking at only the NP/AP relationship unless NP is very near your MP for the duration. In the latter case, then yes, you tapped into your AWC significantly. Let's say your MP for the ride duration is 225W and your NP/AP for the ride was 210W/180W. You can't really tell much about how much you used your AWC. But, let's say your NP/AP is 225W/180W. You definitely used your AWC in the latter ride, repeatedly. The attacks that would have the greatest effect are those on climbs where they can't benefit from the draft. If you go hard and steady on the flat, you're draining your tank but you're not draining their tank, so you're just getting the group to the fnish line faster. Of course, you can always drive them nuts with endless surges. If they get p*ssed off, tell them you're still figuring out how to ride with power.
How are the 6 matches defined?fergie said:
Well, your FT is probably understated if you rode for 74 mins at NP=235W. Your true FT is probably 235-240W.fergie said:
Well, the course and conditions are tailor made for the sprinters. Very tough to take much out of them by going hard and steady on front because of the drafting benefit. If you have one or more teammates, you might try some coordinated attacks, designed to force the lead group to go anaereobic often and repeatedly. It will take some hard pushes on front and short rotations. But, who am I to suggest a strategy to you? You're the expert. I've fallen in love with TTT rotation tactics and strategy, exploiting the aerobic response half-life. As an aside, I'm having a blast organizing a group of recreational cyclists in my club to do a century in less than 5 hours. Communications and organization with a large group (12-15) is a *****. I'm going to rent a few 2-way radios and deploy a tailgunner strategy (one strong rider on the back at all times, to watch for gaps and relay pacing instructions to the front). The hardest parts are the downhill segments because you have to pull like LA to cause the paceline to even break a sweat.fergie said:
RapDaddyo said:
I had the pleasure to speak to one of the pro riders in Arkansas at the mountaintop finish of this weekend's stage race. I noticed that his PT receiver was attached to his racing bike, but his hub and computer were absent. When I asked him about it, the response was (trying to paraphrase as honestly as I can remember): "I didn't want to carry an extra 5 lbs up that hill <chuckling>. You'd just be shooting yourself in the foot to try to race with that kind of weight, especially since I have the mid-level PT [Pro]."WarrenG said:
I agree, TTTs are a hoot. It's a very challenging modeling exercise, taking into account the course (grades), wind, the power profiles of each team member, pacing, rotations and communications. It's very interesting to work out the pull power/duration as a function of the lowest common denominator (weakest team member's FT). I find it's very easy to put the weakest member into difficulty on the upgrades and almost impossible to put him into difficulty on the downgrades unless you have LA or the Kaiser on front.shawndoggy said:
RapDaddyo said:
Not a lower AP necessarily, but a higher ratio of NP to AP. I think they have named this index VI (Variability Index) in the latest version of CP.fergie said:
FYI, you can also create a mean maximal power curve (MP/duration) based on NP. Out of curiosity, what is your max 60 min NP? It took me awhile also to become a true believer in NP, but I am now after studying many of my variable power ride files. That said, I still prefer to establish my 60MP with a relatively constant power ride, the problem being to find a route with no downhill or downwind segments and no stop lights. I've put in my request to the Nevada Transportation Dept. for an absolutely constant 2% grade, 25 mile road with no stop lights, but they have not answered yet.fergie said:
Then, do what most of the other sprinters do. Sit in and draft and wait for the sprint. I'm glad I'm not a true sprinter, because that sounds like such a boring race until the end.fergie said:
Cool.fergie said:
Good luck.
