Racing with PowerTap?? (Opinions)
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acoggan said:IIRC, you were also somewhat skeptical re. the benefits of training and racing with a powermeter, and yet here you are. I therefore predict it will only be a matter of time until you, too, see the light.
Never skeptical about the powermeter, I seem to recall being skeptical about NP and getting too deep with TSS when it didn't take into account other life stress's. TSS has been rectified to an extent in CP2.0.
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
acoggan said:No? Then what took you so long to join the revolution?
Like most people stumping up with the dosh. I have to admit that it's better looking at your own data in terms of really appreciating power than looking at other peoples.
But you can add other training efforts in now. Still no option for adding in days where you feel like death, have a **** day at work, are ill, women having their period etc.
re Lactate, I say it again why settle for an invasive test that requires a technician when you can look at your power meter and know whether you are going better than normal or worse???
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
WarrenG said:
Why? They still do lactate testing but the majority of their testing is measuring power over set durations.
You didn't see Riis creaming himself over lactate levels in "Overcoming" when one of his riders was powering up a hill. It was the power to weight he was getting all excited about.
Now tell us why YOU think lactate is the be all and end all.
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
ps. Also no one has answered this yet but do people honestly think a device that could show an athletes lactate levels while training would be better than a power meter?
fergie said:
So, ask them why they do the lactate testing and ask them why they go to the Mapei center in Italy for testing. What do they learn about in Italy that they don't have in Australia?
Fergie, you have very limited experience with powermeters and even less with lactate testing and how both can be applied to bike racing so don't assume to know too much just yet.
WarrenG said:
Lactate Testing since 1989. Powermeters since 1999. But then Andy's been doing this stuff for far longer and you persist in ignoring his obvious expertise in both areas.
I repeat why do YOU think lactate is the be all and end all.
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
Hmmm, now if I go by Normalised Power and take my 60min max from Cycling Peaks I now have a FT of 256watts. Possibly may be more accurate, but means I need to do intervals at a higher level
Might also fit in with what Andy had to say about my last lactate threshold test where he determined the Dmax threshold to be around 235-240 and that was from November and I have made significant progress since then after a 5 year lay off.
So we come back to a race where NP was 236, FT is 256. Does this mean I could have gone 20 watts harder (tactically so others would not profit from my hard work). But unless I go for the Ergomo I won't know what my NP for the race is.
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
ps. Using NP takes my mate who is a World Level track rider and is racing US Pro from a 60min max of 380watts to NP60min of 430watts. Does this sound about right?
Might also fit in with what Andy had to say about my last lactate threshold test where he determined the Dmax threshold to be around 235-240 and that was from November and I have made significant progress since then after a 5 year lay off.
So we come back to a race where NP was 236, FT is 256. Does this mean I could have gone 20 watts harder (tactically so others would not profit from my hard work). But unless I go for the Ergomo I won't know what my NP for the race is.
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
ps. Using NP takes my mate who is a World Level track rider and is racing US Pro from a 60min max of 380watts to NP60min of 430watts. Does this sound about right?
Andy's the expert, but here's my take. I think you have to look a little deeper than just cherry-picking the max NP from the MMP chart at any duration (including 60min). As Andy has noted on repeated occasions, there is a standard deviation (~5% IIRC). I would say to examine the specific ride, in this case the 60m NP=256W. What was the AP of that ride? What was the nature of the ride? If it was a hard, variable power ride on hilly terrain with lots of short, high-power pushes, it might not be all that useful for predicting your NP in a flat TT event where you will have long, steady, constant power durations. In an ideal world, you would be able to quickly find the 2nd and 3rd highest 60m NP rides, to be able to compare. If your max is 256W and your 2nd and 3rd highest are 255W and 254W, then that's a supportive pattern of results. If, OTOH, your highest is 256W and the 2nd highest is 245W, then you want to really examine the 256W ride carefully. The only way I can think of to find the 2nd and 3rd highest NPs at a given duration is to create a 2nd and 3rd athlete, copy the ride files for the relevant dates (e.g., current season), then delete the ride that had the highest 60MP and re-run the charts, then repeat to fiind the 3rd highest. Maybe Andy has a better workaround because I can't imagine that he has not wanted to exclude a specific ride from his charts.fergie said:Hmmm, now if I go by Normalised Power and take my 60min max from Cycling Peaks I now have a FT of 256watts. Possibly may be more accurate, but means I need to do intervals at a higher level
Might also fit in with what Andy had to say about my last lactate threshold test where he determined the Dmax threshold to be around 235-240 and that was from November and I have made significant progress since then after a 5 year lay off.
So we come back to a race where NP was 236, FT is 256. Does this mean I could have gone 20 watts harder (tactically so others would not profit from my hard work). But unless I go for the Ergomo I won't know what my NP for the race is.
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
ps. Using NP takes my mate who is a World Level track rider and is racing US Pro from a 60min max of 380watts to NP60min of 430watts. Does this sound about right?
Just do a Mean Maximal column chart for 60min NP. 7 days per data point should be enough (unless you expect to find 60 min NPs in the same week at that level - if you do then just do a daily chart instead). The highest "skyscrapers" will stick out like the proverbial. Roll pointer over them and voila - it will show the NP and the dates in which it happened. Up to you how far back you consider an effort to be valid for estimating current fitness.RapDaddyo said:
Alex Simmons said:
Yes the 256 day was a very good ride on the hills. The next few days are around 240-245 watts. I was hitting good form then (Mar) but have come off a three week layoff with illness.
But still how effective is knowing FT based on NP going to be in a race when I only have ave power unless I get Ergomo?
Hamish Ferguson
Cycling Coach
I think all you know is that a race (assuming you don't upgrade) is unlikely to put you near your aerobic limit and that you can attack frequently without being overly concerned about tapping all your aerobic reserves. I suppose you could also make an assumption that the VI will lilely be similar and you could derive NP from AP during the ride.fergie said:
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