Rack and mudguard stays on same bolt

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Ben Mack, Apr 5, 2006.

  1. Ben Mack

    Ben Mack Guest

    Hi All

    Got a bit of a puzzle on my new Specialized Sirrus

    Trying to mount a rack (EX1) and full mudguards. There is only one bolt
    hole on the rear axle carrier (or whatever it's called), so both have to
    go on the same bolt. The mudguard stays go inside the rack stay
    (otherwise I have to twist the stays round each other). So I end up with
    the rack stay cantilevered out on the end of the bolt, because of the
    mudguard stay thickness. Also I cannot tighten the bolt much 'cos the
    mudguard stay eyelet starts to open.

    Is there another way to tackle this?

    I'm wondering if I can find a small flat plate with two holes in (bit
    like a short piece of meccano), that I can fit on the bolt holding the
    rack, then bolt the mudguard stays to the other end?

    While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.

    Cheers
    --
    Ben Mack
    Watchfront Electronics - Bespoke R&D - http://www.watchfront.co.uk/
    Watchfront Internet - ADSL, Colo - http://www.watchfront.net/
    Are you bricking it? - Firewalls - http://www.firebrick.co.uk/
     
    Tags:


  2. Simon D

    Simon D Guest

    Ben Mack used his keyboard to write :
    > Hi All
    >
    > Got a bit of a puzzle on my new Specialized Sirrus
    >
    > Trying to mount a rack (EX1) and full mudguards. There is only one bolt
    > hole on the rear axle carrier (or whatever it's called)


    Dropout (plus mudguard eyelet).

    > so both have to
    > go on the same bolt. The mudguard stays go inside the rack stay
    > (otherwise I have to twist the stays round each other). So I end up with
    > the rack stay cantilevered out on the end of the bolt, because of the
    > mudguard stay thickness. Also I cannot tighten the bolt much 'cos the
    > mudguard stay eyelet starts to open.
    >
    > Is there another way to tackle this?
    >
    > I'm wondering if I can find a small flat plate with two holes in (bit
    > like a short piece of meccano), that I can fit on the bolt holding the
    > rack, then bolt the mudguard stays to the other end?
    >


    I'd stick with your current solution. 25 years ago very few frames had
    double eyelets, and your arrangement was standard.

    The extension is just going to be something else to vibrate loose, and
    certainly won't be as rigid as your current set up.

    > While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    > 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    > side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.
    >


    I presume you mean the bosses near the top of the seatstays? It sounds
    a bit of a bodge. Not a lot you can do about it, unfortunately. 10mm is
    a long way out!

    --
    Simon
    www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk
     
  3. Ben Mack wrote:
    > Trying to mount a rack (EX1) and full mudguards. There is only one bolt
    > hole on the rear axle carrier (or whatever it's called), so both have to
    > go on the same bolt. The mudguard stays go inside the rack stay
    > (otherwise I have to twist the stays round each other). So I end up with
    > the rack stay cantilevered out on the end of the bolt, because of the
    > mudguard stay thickness. Also I cannot tighten the bolt much 'cos the
    > mudguard stay eyelet starts to open.
    >
    > Is there another way to tackle this?


    I'd be tempted to use p-clips for the mudguards.

    Anthony
     
  4. MSeries

    MSeries Guest

    Ben Mack wrote:
    > Hi All
    >
    > Got a bit of a puzzle on my new Specialized Sirrus
    >
    > Trying to mount a rack (EX1) and full mudguards. There is only one bolt
    > hole on the rear axle carrier (or whatever it's called), so both have to
    > go on the same bolt. The mudguard stays go inside the rack stay
    > (otherwise I have to twist the stays round each other). So I end up with
    > the rack stay cantilevered out on the end of the bolt, because of the
    > mudguard stay thickness. Also I cannot tighten the bolt much 'cos the
    > mudguard stay eyelet starts to open.
    >
    > Is there another way to tackle this?
    >

    I have one eylet on my tourer and my rack an mudguards have been fine
    for the last 19 years and many thousands of miles. The rack should be
    nearest the frame because it carries most weight, mine isn't, it's fine
    so this is not crucial. A washer might stop the mudguard stay
    spreading.

    > I'm wondering if I can find a small flat plate with two holes in (bit
    > like a short piece of meccano), that I can fit on the bolt holding the
    > rack, then bolt the mudguard stays to the other end?
    >
    > While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    > 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    > side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.
    >

    Thats very shoddy,are you sure its not the rack that is out. I hope the
    frame is correct in all other respects, such as each fork blade/seat
    stay/chainstay the same length. Doesn't give me much confidence about
    the quality of Specialized frames, the one I rode a few weeks ago was
    quite good too,
     
  5. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Ben Mack wrote:
    > Hi All
    >
    > Got a bit of a puzzle on my new Specialized Sirrus
    >

    <snip>
    >
    > While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    > 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    > side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.
    >


    If its new and they are 10mm out, take it back to the shop and have them
    replace it with a non-shoddy frame under warranty.

    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham
     
  6. Ian Blake

    Ian Blake Guest

    On Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:01:06 +0100, Ben Mack
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi All
    >
    >Got a bit of a puzzle on my new Specialized Sirrus
    >
    >Trying to mount a rack (EX1) and full mudguards. There is only one bolt
    >hole on the rear axle carrier (or whatever it's called), so both have to
    >go on the same bolt. The mudguard stays go inside the rack stay
    >(otherwise I have to twist the stays round each other). So I end up with
    >the rack stay cantilevered out on the end of the bolt, because of the
    >mudguard stay thickness. Also I cannot tighten the bolt much 'cos the
    >mudguard stay eyelet starts to open.
    >
    >Is there another way to tackle this?
    >


    I assume the leg of the rack is pushing into the stays. So try a
    washer. A flat surface may avoid the problem.
     
  7. Tony Raven wrote:
    > Ben Mack wrote:
    > > Hi All
    > >
    > > Got a bit of a puzzle on my new Specialized Sirrus
    > >

    > <snip>
    > >
    > > While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    > > 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    > > side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.
    > >

    >
    > If its new and they are 10mm out, take it back to the shop and have them
    > replace it with a non-shoddy frame under warranty.
    >
    > --
    > Tony


    Or insist that they braze on a new eyelet in the right position for the
    rack and whilst they are at it to add a pair for the mudguards.

    cheers

    Jacob
     
  8. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    >
    > Or insist that they braze on a new eyelet in the right position for the
    > rack and whilst they are at it to add a pair for the mudguards.
    >


    Who wants a brand new bike with a respray because of brazing done to
    correct a poor build? To say nothing of if the builder was sloppy
    there, what about the rest of the joints?

    --
    Tony

    "The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
    right."
    - Lord Hailsham
     
  9. POHB

    POHB Guest

    > While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    > 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    > side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.
    >


    Sounds shoddy. I just took a look at my Sirrus and they are lined up OK.

    Rather than fit a full mudguard I've got a rack with a solid top and a short
    mudguard attached to the back of that.
    Doesn't cover the front section of the wheel but that doesn't seem to be a
    problem and it stops the stripe-up-the-back effect just fine.
     
  10. Sandy Morton

    Sandy Morton Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > If its new and they are 10mm out, take it back to the shop and
    > > have them replace it with a non-shoddy frame under warranty.
    > >
    > > -- Tony


    > Or insist that they braze on a new eyelet in the right position for
    > the rack and whilst they are at it to add a pair for the mudguards.


    And a new paint job - take it back and get it replaced or get a full
    refund.

    --
    A T (Sandy) Morton
    on the Bicycle Island
    In the Global Village
    http://www.millport.net
     
  11. [email protected] wrote:

    > Or insist that they braze on a new eyelet in the right position for
    > the rack and whilst they are at it to add a pair for the mudguards.


    It's an Aluminium frame, doesn't that mean brazing's out of the question?
    Which is immaterial anyway, as the OP should just request a refund.
     
  12. Ben Mack wrote:

    > Got a bit of a puzzle on my new Specialized Sirrus
    >
    > Trying to mount a rack (EX1) and full mudguards. There is only one
    > bolt hole on the rear axle carrier (or whatever it's called), so both
    > have to go on the same bolt.


    On my Pletscher I can mount the mudguard stays on the rack rather then
    on the frame. Tubus offers this option on some racks also.

    > While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    > 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    > side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.


    Is this a frame suitable for mounting a rear disk brake? If so, these
    frames are sometimes quite odd-shaped for giving clearing for a rack
    and the disk caliper. Might well be that the non-symmetric eyelets are
    not a sign of a faulty built. Provided this is the case you will need a
    rack with adjustable legs. Surly and Pletscher come to mind. Other
    companies might have similar products.

    Günther
     
  13. citizen142

    citizen142 Guest

    I'm not too sure what the question is but here perhaps this is the
    answer, or at least how I have done it. Again apologies if I have
    misunderstood the proposition.

    Take a long bolt and insert it from the inside of the frame outwards.
    Place the rack on the bolt, add washer, add nut, lock tight, place
    another washer on top of the nut, add mudguard stays, add washer, add
    nut, or indeed at this state I add two nuts. Cut off surplus bolt with
    hacksaw and clean with file.
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, Günther Schwarz
    ([email protected]) wrote:
    > Ben Mack wrote:
    > > While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    > > 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    > > side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.

    >
    > Is this a frame suitable for mounting a rear disk brake? If so, these
    > frames are sometimes quite odd-shaped for giving clearing for a rack
    > and the disk caliper. Might well be that the non-symmetric eyelets are
    > not a sign of a faulty built.


    My Trek 4300 frame is like this, and that's not even disc-compatible!
    It has got some odd holes on the nearside chainstay/seatstay junction,
    but they're not spaced to fit any disc brake caliper made of man.

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Dead journalists make excellent objets d'art.
     
  15. M-gineering

    M-gineering Guest

    Dave Larrington wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>, Günther Schwarz
    > ([email protected]) wrote:
    >> Ben Mack wrote:
    >>> While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    >>> 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    >>> side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.

    >> Is this a frame suitable for mounting a rear disk brake? If so, these
    >> frames are sometimes quite odd-shaped for giving clearing for a rack
    >> and the disk caliper. Might well be that the non-symmetric eyelets are
    >> not a sign of a faulty built.

    >
    > My Trek 4300 frame is like this, and that's not even disc-compatible!
    > It has got some odd holes on the nearside chainstay/seatstay junction,
    > but they're not spaced to fit any disc brake caliper made of man.
    >


    I've seen frames where the RH mounting point was moved up to make room
    for a redesigned replacable derailleurhanger. Ofcourse nobody bothered
    to update the drawing for the lefthand part

    --
    ---
    Marten Gerritsen

    INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
    www.m-gineering.nl
     
  16. Ben Mack

    Ben Mack Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Simon D
    <[email protected]> writes
    >Ben Mack used his keyboard to write :
    >> While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    >> 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    >> side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.

    >
    >I presume you mean the bosses near the top of the seatstays?


    No, I mean the threaded holes on the dropout

    --
    Ben Mack
    Watchfront Electronics - Bespoke R&D - http://www.watchfront.co.uk/
    Watchfront Internet - ADSL, Colo - http://www.watchfront.net/
    Are you bricking it? - Firewalls - http://www.firebrick.co.uk/
     
  17. Ben Mack

    Ben Mack Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, M-gineering
    <[email protected]> writes
    >I've seen frames where the RH mounting point was moved up to make room
    >for a redesigned replacable derailleurhanger. Ofcourse nobody bothered
    >to update the drawing for the lefthand part


    Mmm, it is the RH one that is higher...

    --
    Ben Mack
    Watchfront Electronics - Bespoke R&D - http://www.watchfront.co.uk/
    Watchfront Internet - ADSL, Colo - http://www.watchfront.net/
    Are you bricking it? - Firewalls - http://www.firebrick.co.uk/
     
  18. Ben Mack

    Ben Mack Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, citizen142
    <[email protected]> writes
    >Take a long bolt and insert it from the inside of the frame outwards.
    >Place the rack on the bolt, add washer, add nut, lock tight, place
    >another washer on top of the nut, add mudguard stays, add washer, add
    >nut, or indeed at this state I add two nuts. Cut off surplus bolt with
    >hacksaw and clean with file.


    I did wonder about that. However if I put the mudguard stay outside the
    rack stay, I have to twist the mudguard stay around the rack stay, messy
    and will probably rattle.

    If I do this with the stays the other way round, the rack stays just get
    pushed further out (and they are already a long way out, with the EX1
    you have to flex the stays out, and it takes some doing!)

    I'll occasionally be putting a child seat on this rack, which is why I'm
    keen to get a solid fitting

    Cheers
    --
    Ben Mack
    Watchfront Electronics - Bespoke R&D - http://www.watchfront.co.uk/
    Watchfront Internet - ADSL, Colo - http://www.watchfront.net/
    Are you bricking it? - Firewalls - http://www.firebrick.co.uk/
     
  19. Ben Mack

    Ben Mack Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Tony Raven <[email protected]
    family.com> writes
    >Ben Mack wrote:
    >> While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    >> 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    >> side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.

    >
    >If its new and they are 10mm out, take it back to the shop and have them
    >replace it with a non-shoddy frame under warranty.


    Hmmmm, a few of you said that, think I will go back to the shop and see
    what they say

    Thanks all
    --
    Ben Mack
    Watchfront Electronics - Bespoke R&D - http://www.watchfront.co.uk/
    Watchfront Internet - ADSL, Colo - http://www.watchfront.net/
    Are you bricking it? - Firewalls - http://www.firebrick.co.uk/
     
  20. Simon D

    Simon D Guest

    Ben Mack has brought this to us :
    > In article <[email protected]>, Simon D
    > <[email protected]> writes
    >> Ben Mack used his keyboard to write :
    >>> While I'm on the subject, I discovered that the frame holes are about
    >>> 10mm higher on one side than the other, which tilts the rack to one
    >>> side. A bit annoying, means I have to grind a slot in the rack stay.

    >>
    >> I presume you mean the bosses near the top of the seatstays?

    >
    > No, I mean the threaded holes on the dropout


    In that case I'd take the frame back to the supplier, as others have
    suggested, unless it's clearly a (not very helpful) design feature.

    --
    Simon
    www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk
     
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