Radial Spokes on Rear Wheel?

[Jim Smith]

"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> writes:

> [email protected] wrote:
>> <Snipped suggestion of google-newsreader-centrism>
>>
>> Okay then, I will either manually quote or not with that in mind.
>
> You really needed someone to TELL you why quoting is a good thing?
>
> Wow.

Strange bedfellows, and all that.

 

[[email protected]]

Mister Chapeau Hanger opined:

>Think of it as the wheel-based equivalent of the
>team-logo jersey, without the potential benefit that a sale will at
>least temporarily ensure that a given rider is wearing a clean shirt.

Wow!, that has to be one of the most indecipherable similes ever ;-)

Nice work.

App

 

[Werehatrack]

On Fri, 06 May 2005 18:30:18 +0100, Zog The Undeniable
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mavic do it the other way around on Ksyriums and call it "Isopulse". A
>radial *right hand side* helps equal out the spoke tensions when used
>with a tangential left hand side, but all the components have to be
>selected carefully to ensure the left side does enough pulling.

From where I sit, this looks like a case of "Trust Mavic to come up
with a nonsolution to a nonproblem and call it a feature."

Are we *sure* that Mavic isn't really owned by Microsoft?



--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[JH]

[email protected] wrote:
> DAGS = do a google search.
>
> Sorry.
>
> App

Geez . . I should have figured that one out (so much for my PhD being
worth anything)!

 

[[email protected]]

Your initial response to my post lacked the same clarity that you
suggested was lacking in mine. I responded in kind as I noted a
distinct pique in your tone.

Once you finally clarified your original post cam my response: "Okay
then, I will either manually quote or not with that in mind." which
doesn't seem at all hostile to me.

Did you find my suggestion that I would keep that in mind hostile?

App

 

[[email protected]]

Bill boosted his ego by putting others down, carping:

> You really needed someone to TELL you why quoting is a good thing?

> Wow.

You really needed to say that? DUMBASS.

App

 

[[email protected]]

WHR wrote:

> Pedaling torque will be transmitted by the drive side spokes in any
> event, if for no other eason than their greater static tension. In
> theory, some drive torque might be transmitted fron the non-drive
side
> if the hub was exceptionally stiff, but it still wouldn't be much.

So, radial or not, "cool" or not, it doesn't matter - the hub won't
explode, the world won't end and, in some small way, the possessor of
the "cool" rear wheel is happier. His wheel lasts just as long, his
bike still works.

Sounds like a positive sum game for those who want it and the only
negative is that some people might get irritated at seeing other people
happy over their radial ND spokes.

App

 

[Bill Sornson]

[email protected] wrote:
> Bill boosted his ego by putting others down, carping:
>
>> You really needed someone to TELL you why quoting is a good thing?
>
>> Wow.
>
> You really needed to say that? DUMBASS.

Can't help noticing that YOU QUOTED, however. Maybe you're /only/ a jerk,
and not a total moron after all.

PS: "dumbass" isn't a word, dicklick. (D'oh!)

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, thank you. You are ever so kind.

App

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=FCnther?= Schwarz]

Werehatrack wrote:

> Are we *sure* that Mavic isn't really owned by Microsoft?

Amer Sports Corporation (Helsinki) bought them some days ago together
with the whole Salomon group from Adidas.

Guenther

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Zog The Undeniable wrote:
>
>>Mavic do it the other way around on Ksyriums and call it "Isopulse". A
>>radial *right hand side* helps equal out the spoke tensions when used
>>with a tangential left hand side, but all the components have to be
>>selected carefully to ensure the left side does enough pulling.
>
Werehatrack wrote:
>
> From where I sit, this looks like a case of "Trust Mavic to come up
> with a nonsolution to a nonproblem and call it a feature."

Sort of. It actually is a solution, but to a different problem. The
aluminum spokes in those wheels are so fat that if they crossed them on
the right side there would be insufficient derailer clerarance in low
gear, or they'd need to move the right flange too far to the left.

Sheldon "This Is A Ksyrious Issue" Brown
+------------------------------------------+
| Light, cheap, durable. Choose any two. |
| -- Keith Bontrager |
+------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Sheldon Brown]

JH asked:

> What would be the advantage of raidal lacing on the
> non-drive side?

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial

Sheldon "'Arf 'N' 'Arf" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions |
| from insufficient premises. --Samuel Butler |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Jay S. Hill]

[email protected] wrote:
> WTH is the problem? I responded to his post without quoting him. Is
> that a problem for you? Are you incapable of reading the prior message
> prior to reading mine?

You're making too many assumptions about how people read newsgroups.

 

[Jim Smith]

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> writes:

> Jay S. Hill wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>> > WTH is the problem? I responded to his post without quoting him.
> Is
>> > that a problem for you? Are you incapable of reading the prior
> message
>> > prior to reading mine?
>>
>> You're making too many assumptions about how people read newsgroups.
>
> Yes, Jay, thank you. That was most ably pointed out to me by Mr. Smith
> just after I posted that bit you quoted above. I don't know if it is a
> personal failing that I have yet to experience the glories of the
> "Thunderbird" newsreader or other non-Google portals or just a
> coincidence of the lateness of my entre into the world of usenet.

Thank you for quoting.

Personaly, I tend to blame Google more than the posters, Despite their
benevolent reputation, Google seems to be deliberately trying to
co-opt usenet, and the way their software presents articles is a part
of that. If you look at pasts which do not include some context you
will notice that the majority of people who do not quote are using
groups.google.com.

 

[Bill Sornson]

[email protected] wrote:

{snips}

> Richard Lick, so "App"tly named by his good buddy, Bill Sornson

Only in response to being called (in all caps for added em-fassas) DUMBASS
by his good pal, uh, App? (Pete?)

10-4 good buddy, Con Void Bee

 

[daveornee]

JH asked:

> What would be the advantage of raidal lacing on the
> non-drive side?

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial

Sheldon "'Arf 'N' 'Arf" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions |
| from insufficient premises. --Samuel Butler |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

One major disadvantage to this method is warranty coverage from manufactures.
An earlier poster suggested offset spoke bed available from Ritchey. This method is very reliable and available from Velocity as well in their Aerohead OC and Synergy Asym models. Bontrager and WTB also have models with asym spoke beds.

I suggests an additional way to help solve the problem is to use even thinner spokes on the left rear. Thinner spokes stretch more for the given amount of tension needed on the left side. With certain selections of rims, spokes, and rear hubs you can attain equal amount of stretch in the left and right spokes of the rear wheel. There are a couple of benefits to having equal, or nearly equal, amount of spoke stretch on the left and right rear.

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

> I suggests an additional way to help solve the problem is to use even
> thinner spokes on the left rear. Thinner spokes stretch more for the
> given amount of tension needed on the left side. With certain
> selections of rims, spokes, and rear hubs you can attain equal amount
> of stretch in the left and right spokes of the rear wheel. There are
> a couple of benefits to having equal, or nearly equal, amount of spoke
> stretch on the left and right rear.

How does this work? I don't get it.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[daveornee]

> I suggests an additional way to help solve the problem is to use even
> thinner spokes on the left rear. Thinner spokes stretch more for the
> given amount of tension needed on the left side. With certain
> selections of rims, spokes, and rear hubs you can attain equal amount
> of stretch in the left and right spokes of the rear wheel. There are
> a couple of benefits to having equal, or nearly equal, amount of spoke
> stretch on the left and right rear.

How does this work? I don't get it.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Spokes only work when they are in tension.
When the load on the rim takes all the tension out of the spoke(s) they go slack and no longer support the rim.
If the right spokes have tension sufficient to take up 1 mm of radial load deformation and the left go slack with that amount of load deformation, the left spokes are no longer supporting the rim. If left and right spokes have the same or nearly the same stretch, they will both continue to have tension as the load deforms the bottom of the rim up toward the hub. This is a rather simple explanation, but I hope it helps.

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

"daveornee" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> Phil, Squid-in-Training Wrote:
>> > I suggests an additional way to help solve the problem is to use even
>> > thinner spokes on the left rear. Thinner spokes stretch more for
>> the
>> > given amount of tension needed on the left side. With certain
>> > selections of rims, spokes, and rear hubs you can attain equal
>> amount
>> > of stretch in the left and right spokes of the rear wheel. There
>> are
>> > a couple of benefits to having equal, or nearly equal, amount of
>> spoke
>> > stretch on the left and right rear.
>>
>> How does this work? I don't get it.
>>
>> --
>> Phil, Squid-in-Training
> Spokes only work when they are in tension.
> When the load on the rim takes all the tension out of the spoke(s) they
> go slack and no longer support the rim.
> If the right spokes have tension sufficient to take up 1 mm of radial
> load deformation and the left go slack with that amount of load
> deformation, the left spokes are no longer supporting the rim. If left
> and right spokes have the same or nearly the same stretch, they will
> both continue to have tension as the load deforms the bottom of the rim
> up toward the hub. This is a rather simple explanation, but I hope it
> helps.

Oh, I see what you mean now. I was under the impression that using thinner
spokes meant that tensions became equalized.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[daveornee]

"daveornee" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> Phil, Squid-in-Training Wrote:
>> > I suggests an additional way to help solve the problem is to use even
>> > thinner spokes on the left rear. Thinner spokes stretch more for
>> the
>> > given amount of tension needed on the left side. With certain
>> > selections of rims, spokes, and rear hubs you can attain equal
>> amount
>> > of stretch in the left and right spokes of the rear wheel. There
>> are
>> > a couple of benefits to having equal, or nearly equal, amount of
>> spoke
>> > stretch on the left and right rear.
>>
>> How does this work? I don't get it.
>>
>> --
>> Phil, Squid-in-Training
> Spokes only work when they are in tension.
> When the load on the rim takes all the tension out of the spoke(s) they
> go slack and no longer support the rim.
> If the right spokes have tension sufficient to take up 1 mm of radial
> load deformation and the left go slack with that amount of load
> deformation, the left spokes are no longer supporting the rim. If left
> and right spokes have the same or nearly the same stretch, they will
> both continue to have tension as the load deforms the bottom of the rim
> up toward the hub. This is a rather simple explanation, but I hope it
> helps.

Oh, I see what you mean now. I was under the impression that using thinner
spokes meant that tensions became equalized.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Tension equalization is a good thing, but I was only suggesting one small way to achieve a benefit by equalizing stretch.
Dishing the frame, widening the OLD, Narrowing the amount needed for the gear cluster, and offsetting the spoke bed in the rim help attain tension equalization.
Narrowing the flange spacing as Ritchey does in some of his rear hubs also equalizes the tension, but I don't agree that this is a good approach.