radially spoked wheels



I said I wouldn't post any more arguments here so I won't. Just basic facts.

Simply put, a properly assembled bicycle wheel is superior to an improperly assembled bicycle wheel no matter how it is laced. The only really important differences between a radial lacing and tangential lacing is torsional stiffness and durability.

Radial lacing lacks torsional stiffness, so rear wheels have to have tangential spokes on the drive side at least. They will otherwise wind up and unwind every time you push on the pedals. In addition to the uncomfortable feeling of cranking on a clock spring, the extreme strain imposed by this will snap spokes in a big hurry. Disc brakes also require wheels that are tangentially laced. Radial lacing on the non-drive side of a rear wheel saves a small amount of weight and allows better balance between drive side and non-drive side spoke tension. If the hub was designed for it, this can actually enhance durability. However, a properly tensioned wheel with tangential lacing on both sides will still outlast an improperly tensioned wheel with radial lacing on the non-drive side.

As far as durability goes, the flanges on conventional hubs can withstand tangential forces much better than radial ones. Radial laced spokes also undergo more strain under lateral loads and more strain means more fatigue. If a radial spoke is too tight it's more likely to fail, but a tangential spoke that's too tight will fail just the same.

We can argue until we're blue in the face about the rest of this stuff but it still won't make it matter. By themselves, radial lacing and aero spokes will not make a slower rider into a faster one. If there is anybody out there than can tell the difference in stiffness between radial and tangential lacing while blindfolded, I'd like to meet them. Having a good wheelbuilder lace Open Pro Rims on Dura-Ace Hubs in a three-cross pattern with 28 butted spokes on the front and 32 on the rear makes for a very light, very fast, very stiff, and very durable wheelset. Although I'm not positive, I'll wager they would be lighter, stiffer, more durable, cost less, and be faster for climbing although less aero for time trials than the Shimano 540 wheelset mentioned above.

However, Open Pros and tangential lacing lack the "Wow! How much did those run you?" factor that is so important to some. If you really need to drop a few spokes worth of drag to get that extra 0.2 mph worth of speed to go farther with your racing career, then do so. However, don't go out bike shopping figuring that the latest craze for lower spoke counts, radial lacing, and aero spokes makes for a better bike. I'd rather put my money into the frame and other components. If I needed a really aero wheelset for time trials, I'd buy one separately and continue using the boring but durable and quick enough wheelset for training. I'm not a big fan of wasting a high end racing wheelset on training and touring.
 
About durability:
I have for the last 4 years been riding on, radial laced front wheel. Built of Mavic MA2 Argent rim, stainless 14 gauge spokes and a Suntour Cyclone hub with sealed bearings. And a semiradial laced rear wheel, built of the same type of rim and spokes and a Shimano SC105 freehub, radial opposite the cocks. I commute allmost every day to work (about 30 KM.). I have never had any problems with the wheels allthou I built them myself from used stuff.
I know this is a little out of the discussion, but I think you should know that it can work no matter what the experts tell you.
With the wish of a good ride, both radial and tagential.
Arne
 
alex, non-paired radial wheels have one, thats right one, spoke supporting/hanging the entire load...paired wheels have.....2

cahe...I dont arguee on the internet but...I am one.....and you'd lose your wager....most of its marketing, if they have it we better.......who wants stuff like everyone else?...and your wheels are a nice setup....

IMO what makes the specialty wheels durable is the rims. Without the deep sectioned box rims you never be able to have durable wheels with so few spokes.
 
QUOTE=cachehiker How about if I restate the lateral stiffness issue this way:

Radial stiffness is better for radial lacing but torsional stiffness is greatly reduced. The additional strain on shorter, radial spokes is higher under lateral stress than it is on longer, three-cross spokes. More strain means more fatigue. Leaving the spokes a little loose to mitigate fatigue results in less lateral stiffness. Lacing them up a little too tight results in reduced durability.


There is no discernable lag in the transmission of torsional energy from the hub flange, across the spokes, to the rim in radial lacing. A radial drive wheel is transfering the torsion of pedaling across every spoke, equally, at once. The spokes are shorter, and therefore stiffer, and so the efficiency of the wheel is probably higher than cross lacing.

Your assertion that you could feel the lateral flex of a radially laced front wheel is your imagination, and your assertion that you would feel some lag in pedaling in a radially laced rear wheel is equally fantastical.
 
Some more personal experience...

My first experience with an aero wheelset was with Rolf Vector Pro wheels. Radial pattern on the front, 1 cross lace on the back, very low spoke count (14 front/16 rear), very wide aero spokes. In my own unscientific way, I did note that these wheels would pick up speed quicker in a downhill coast than a set of conventional wheels. Can't quantify how much, but they were definitely quicker.

In the two years that I rode those wheels, I never had a spoke turn, never had a spoke or hub break. Very rugged.

Big downside to the Rolfs: they were a harsh riding wheelset. Very stiff, you felt everything. Great for going fast, especially on downhills, but the harsh ride can get to you after a couple of hours.

Last summer, I found a good buy on a Campy Zonda wheelset. Same 30mm aero rim section as the Rolfs, somewhat milder spokes and more of them. Had the rather odd G4 spoking on the front - half radial, half 1 cross laced. G3 spoking in the back, one side radial, power side 2 cross laced. I won't say they were any faster than the Rolfs, but they did have a bit milder ride, not quite so harsh.

Under $300? Nothing new available that worth buying. I got the Zondas on sale for $350. The Rolfs are commonly found on ebay in the $200-300 range in good shape, as they have been replaced with a newer model that isn't substantially better.
 
ah yes, but you have unleashed the hounds of hades, dumped the chumbucket to the sharks. we have by now forgotten all about you and are having our collective way with one another so it seems. this is the way of all things forum thread.

my real world experience with radial bladed road wheel usage:

on the front, a bit more shock transmitted to the bars, plagued with nipples shearing off, must hold the blades in alignment whilst truing.

on the rear, radial non drive side, makes for a mushy sprint wheel, lots of windup tension and release back there during the jumps. must try to remember to treat with gentility to reduce this.

as for speed, if a .5 mph gain is to hoped for i suspect it would occur only at 25 to 30 mph solo (not pack-sheltered) speeds.

the radial spokin' craze, which is now a norm, is market demand driven more than a practical advantage except at the elite level usage, where it can make a competitive advantage.
also at that level the reduced structural characteristics compared to cross pattern spoking attributes are perhaps not such an issue, as race advantage would be more important than long term durability, and as such an acceptable trade-off.


alex001 said:
thanks ,you have answered all of my questions
 

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