Rail bookings online

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Neil Williams wrote:

> What this needs, of course, is a consistent policy...I would suggest cycle reservations
> should be free

With respect: I don't think so. The problem with any "free" offer is that it will be treated as a
concession, and the customers given whatever ***-end of service the TOC thinks they can get away
with on the day. Or not, if they don't feel like it. And if you demand a refund for non-performance
of the service, they'll be only too happy to provide it - less 10 quid for administration, no doubt.

I'd rather have a real ticket, with a real sum of money on it, that I can wave as evidence of having
purchased this service. And an expectation of real compensation if the service proves to be
unavailable.

Let's be realistic: taking a cycle on the train is a reasonable thing to want to do, but it requires
extra provision, over and above what they need to provide for an average traveller with an average
suitcase or backpack. They're trying hard enough already to discourage us from doing it. Let's not
hand them yet another excuse by demanding to do it for free - or we'll be cutting off our own nose
to spite our face, frankly.

IMHO and YMMV

 

[Neil Williams]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:35:41 +0100, "Alan J. Flavell" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'd rather have a real ticket, with a real sum of money on it, that I can wave as evidence of
>having purchased this service. And an expectation of real compensation if the service proves to be
>unavailable.

This is true - and I don't mind the idea of paying a small fee for taking my bike - though I don't
like flat fares (unless very low, e.g. a nominal quid or so) as they penalise short-distance travel
or users of discounted tickets.

However, if we want a consistent, national policy, that may be the only way to go. If we charge for
reservations but not for those joining on the day, people won't likely reserve. If we charge a flat
fare for both on all trains, local passengers lose out. If we charge on only some trains (as W&B
do), confusion can result.

One solution proposed here a while ago was charging the Accompanied Animals and Articles rate, which
I think was 25% of the fare. This has potential - but may prove too difficult to administer,
certainly electronically.

Wales and Borders have an interesting policy; if a train is reservable, reservations are compulsory
and a fee applies, otherwise it's free. However, in practice, I prefer to have the possibility of
joining the train of my choice on the day with the risk of not being carried or being asked to leave
short of my destination.

With W&B's new policy, I wouldn't have been able to spend an enjoyable day cycling along the North
Wales Coast and getting a train back as I did some time ago - I didn't know how long it'd take (or
how far I'd get), and so couldn't commit to a specific service. Of course, when
CT/TPX were chargeable and/or reservations compulsory, I was not once refused access or charged an
additional fare on asking the guard - proving that such policies were routinely not enforced,
which adds to the confusion.

With these complexities, I do lean towards free carriage and reservation, with reservations not
compulsory but access refused if space is not available. While it may lack in service guarantees, it
gains in flexibility, both for the TOC and the cyclist.

Neil

--
Neil Williams [email protected] is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null. Try
my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me.

 

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Neil Williams wrote:

> One solution proposed here a while ago was charging the Accompanied Animals and Articles rate,
> which I think was 25% of the fare.

Which inevitably brings to mind an old Punch cartoon that's been quoted here (uk.r) several times
before. Maybe our bicycle is not a parrot, but an insect? ;-)

> With W&B's new policy, I wouldn't have been able to spend an enjoyable day cycling along the North
> Wales Coast and getting a train back as I did some time ago - I didn't know how long it'd take (or
> how far I'd get), and so couldn't commit to a specific service.

Indeed - but if you find yourself at the end of your tether, ready to return, and the railway refuse
to take you, what are you going to do? Call a taxi? They'll hardly welcome you, and your trusty
steed, as a customer, AFAICT.

> Of course, when CT/TPX were chargeable and/or reservations compulsory, I was not once refused
> access or charged an additional fare on asking the guard - proving that such policies were
> routinely not enforced, which adds to the confusion.

But again, this is a "lucky for some, but if you're refused, tough" kind of policy. Who would plan a
week's excursion on that kind of scheme? I'd rather take a lightweight tent, find a spot when I'm
ready, and stuff the railways, if that's their attitude to me as a potential customer.

> While it may lack in service guarantees, it gains in flexibility, both for the TOC and the
> cyclist.

I hear what you're saying - and when it works out, it's nice. But...

Their script seems to be saying: we'll take you if it suits us, we won't take you it doesn't. And
there's no comeback. So I'm going to need an alternative solution anyway. As my mum always taught
us, "blessed is he who expects nothing - for he will not be disappointed". So I take the alternative
solution anyway, the one I can rely on, even if I'd prefer something else: that way I avoid the risk
of disappointment. Can I be blamed for that? But that way they get no fare from me either.

| "Cats is dogs, and rabbits is dogs, and so's parrots. But this 'ere tortoise is an insect, so
| there ain't no charge,"

 

[Wainwright]

Hi: I am in Australia and my wife and myself plan to ride End to End next year. I decided to test
all this booking business out as we want to train it (with our bikes) from London to Penzance to
start our trip. It is true what you say... absoltuely impossible to book the bikes. We can book for
ourselves but not for the bikes.. despite three emails they won't budge. I have now been given the
address of their complaints dept and told to write to them instead... basically stick it up my bum.
What a bloody joke the railways are. Does anyone know if we can take our bikes on a bus/coach from
London to Penzance?
--
Drop Dead if you want to reply personally Alan J. Flavell wrote in message ...
>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Neil Williams wrote:

 

[Rg]

"Wainwright" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hi: I am in Australia and my wife and myself plan to ride End to End next
year.
> I decided to test all this booking business out as we want to train it
(with
> our bikes) from London to Penzance to start our trip. It is true what you say... absoltuely
> impossible to book the bikes. We can book for ourselves but not for the bikes.. despite
> three emails
they
> won't budge. I have now been given the address of their complaints dept and told to
write
> to them instead... basically stick it up my bum. What a bloody joke the railways are. Does anyone
> know if we can take our bikes on a bus/coach from London to Penzance?
> --
> Drop Dead if you want to reply personally Alan J. Flavell wrote in message ...
> >On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Neil Williams wrote:
> >
> >
>

I assume that you have been trying to book through either The Trainline or Virgin (in fact they are
one and the same) or possibly Q jump

Suggest you try booking through GNER (another train company) - although they don't operate the
services you want they do make booking and are very helpful - the downside, as you are in Oz, is
that you will have to call them up on the phone to make passenger + bike reservations -
International Tel: +44 191 227 5959 - and see the website for details http://www.gner.co.uk/

The one thing that may be an issue is the lead time on your booking (i.e. you say "next year" - it
seems that all the railway companies will only book about 4 months in advance, and time of booking
also affects availability of cheaper tickets)

I now book any train journeys with GNER, regardless of route etc - it seems to work!

Finally some envy .... we're planning LEJoG in 2005 .... can't wait.

RG

 

[Mseries]

Wainwright wrote:
> Hi: I am in Australia and my wife and myself plan to ride End to End next year. I decided to test
> all this booking business out as we want to train it (with our bikes) from London to Penzance to
> start our trip. It is true what you say... absoltuely impossible to book the bikes. We can book
> for ourselves but not for the bikes.. despite three emails they won't budge. I have now been given
> the address of their complaints dept and told to write to them instead... basically stick it up my
> bum. What a bloody joke the railways are. Does anyone know if we can take our bikes on a bus/coach
> from London to Penzance?
>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Neil Williams wrote:

I am planning on LeJOG in July next year, when are you heading out ? Keep an eye on this NG as I
have already started documenting my thoughts and preparations. They'll be posted soon.

--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.

 

[Bryan]

< snip lots of very intersting stuff >

Just to add my 2p worth to this. I took my bike up to theLakes last weekend, adn hadn't reserved it when I bought the tickets (from Virgin online) Couldn;t arrange for the bike reservation online, and also couldn;t get it done over the phone (as Ihad already bought the ticket) Had to go to Euston to get the reservatio sorted out, which ended up being incredibly painless due to the helpful staff.

When I actually got the train, no-one bothered to heck that I had actually reserved the biiek (possible because the train was 30 minytes late leaving), but some of the platform staff could have been a bit more helpful in telling which end of teh train I should put my bike (I was trying to help them by asking and not delaying an already late train).

REturn trip from Penrith was a dream, big thanjks to the station staff there, and also at Stafford where I had to change for getting teh lifts for me so preventing me from having to lug a fully laden touring bike up and down several flights of stairs.

Bryan

 

[Rg]

"Bryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> < snip lots of very intersting stuff >
>
> Just to add my 2p worth to this. I took my bike up to theLakes last weekend, adn hadn't reserved
> it when I bought the tickets (from Virgin online) Couldn;t arrange for the bike reservation
> online, and also couldn;t get it done over the phone (as Ihad already bought the ticket) Had to go
> to Euston to get the reservatio sorted out, which ended up being incredibly painless due to the
> helpful staff.
>
> When I actually got the train, no-one bothered to heck that I had actually reserved the biiek
> (possible because the train was 30 minytes late leaving), but some of the platform staff could
> have been a bit more helpful in telling which end of teh train I should put my bike (I was trying
> to help them by asking and not delaying an already late train).
>
> REturn trip from Penrith was a dream, big thanjks to the station staff there, and also at Stafford
> where I had to change for getting teh lifts for me so preventing me from having to lug a fully
> laden touring bike up and down several flights of stairs.
>
> Bryan
>
>

Your experience "on the day" equates with mine (despite earlier rant about ticket sales) - normally,
if you are there you can blag your way on to any train - the train/platform staff seem to despair of
the Virgin people in the office/call centre - BUT of course if your journey is time critical then
sod's law will doubtless kick in and you wont get on!

.... and where to get on a Virgin train with your bike is easy .... it will be at the other end from
where you are standing on the platform )) (Seriously, there is a minute bicycle sticker on the
door - and/or a disabled sticker too for wheelchair access)

RG

 

[Ian G Batten]

In article <[email protected]>, MikeT <[email protected]> wrote:
> How can it be any cheaper to _remove_ functionality you've already coded on the site?

It means you don't need to maintain it going forwards.

ian

 

[Charlie Hulme]

Wainwright wrote:

> What a bloody joke the railways are. Does anyone know if we can take our bikes on a bus/coach from
> London to Penzance?

I doubt it, but as First Great Western say:

'Advance reservation (fee £1) is recommended on all trains. Carried without a reservation at a fee
of £3 subject to space.'

Provided you get a direct train to Penzance which will be an HST (or loco-hauled train
overnight) with a good sized baggage van, I'd say you will have no problem actually taking your
bike on the train.

Charlie

 

[Ian G Batten]

In article <[email protected]>, Alan J. Flavell
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Indeed - but if you find yourself at the end of your tether, ready to return, and the railway
> refuse to take you, what are you going to do?

I'm considering buying an airnimal folder. Rather a different proposition to a Brompton, in fact it
has (nearly) full size wheels. Frightening sums of money, though.

ian