Raleigh Record Frame: Worth Saving?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by The Eye, Jan 15, 2006.

  1. The Eye

    The Eye Guest

    I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
    Record frame.

    Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html

    I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    should invest any time or money.

    My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
    handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc

    Should I do it at all?

    How do I get off the cottered cranks?

    Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

    Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.
     
    Tags:


  2. The Eye wrote on Monday 16 January 2006 00:33:

    > How do I get off the cottered cranks?
    >

    Undo the cotter-pin nut and drift the pin out.
    --
    Regards
    Alex
    The From address above is a spam-trap.
    The Reply-To address is valid
     
  3. JeffWills

    JeffWills Guest

    The Eye wrote:
    > I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
    > Record frame.
    >
    > Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html
    >
    > I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    > should invest any time or money.
    >


    Invest as little as possible. What you have was pretty low on the totem
    pole for its time and not particularly special or rare.

    > My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
    > handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc
    >
    > Should I do it at all?
    >


    I have a similar Raleigh frame that was donated to me by a friend. I
    built it up as a single speed with straight handlebars. It makes a
    great errand/coffee shop/pit bike. I had some old 700C rims and 700 x
    30C tires that I built into wheels for it, which is probably overkill,
    but what the heck.

    > How do I get off the cottered cranks?
    >
    > Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?
    >
    > Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.


    You can glean some useful information from Sheldon's Retro Raleigh
    page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/ . I think you'll be
    able to install a conventional English-threaded cartridge BB once
    you've removed the cottered cranks. Here's how:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html .

    Jeff
     
  4. The Eye wrote:
    > I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
    > Record frame.
    >
    > Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html
    >
    > I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    > should invest any time or money.
    >
    > My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
    > handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc
    >
    > Should I do it at all?
    >
    > How do I get off the cottered cranks?


    See <http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html>.

    > Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?


    Maybe. See <http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html> and
    <http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-bottombrackets.html>.

    > Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.


    The answers are often found on Sheldon Brown's website:
    <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/>.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River
     
  5. peter

    peter Guest

    The Eye wrote:
    > I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    > should invest any time or money.


    The Record was an entry-level bike popular on college campusses during
    the early '70s. It's a pretty heavy steel frame with no particular
    unique value that I'm aware of, but should ride fine as long as it
    hasn't been bent or otherwise damaged.

    > Should I do it at all?

    I wouldn't spend much time or money on it, but it's up to you if you
    have the necessary parts and time.

    > How do I get off the cottered cranks?


    The proper method is to use a tool that bike shops have (or used to
    have) for pushing out the cotterpin with lots of leverage. The
    alternate method is:
    loosen the nut holding the cotterpin in place so it's flush with the
    end of the pin;
    support the crankarm with a socket that goes around the head end of the
    cotterpin;
    hit the threaded end of the pin/nut with a hammer to dislodge it, then
    remove nut and pin;
    now the crank should come off - if it's stuck apply some torque to
    loosen any rust.
    >
    > Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?


    AFAIK, they all had standard 68 mm bottom brackets and English
    threading so standard bottom brackets should fit.
     
  6. The Eye

    The Eye Guest

    Wow! What a great news group.

    I had the sense it was not a "notable" frame and don't think I'll take the
    time and money to build it up.

    Don't know how many cottered cranks I'll will run into in the future so I
    won't just take it apart to learn. I live near JP in Boston, so I'll let
    Bikes Not Bombs decide it's final fate.

    Thanks for all the responses, especially Peter.

    The Eye

    "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > The Eye wrote:
    >> I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    >> should invest any time or money.

    >
    > The Record was an entry-level bike popular on college campusses during
    > the early '70s. It's a pretty heavy steel frame with no particular
    > unique value that I'm aware of, but should ride fine as long as it
    > hasn't been bent or otherwise damaged.
    >
    >> Should I do it at all?

    > I wouldn't spend much time or money on it, but it's up to you if you
    > have the necessary parts and time.
    >
    >> How do I get off the cottered cranks?

    >
    > The proper method is to use a tool that bike shops have (or used to
    > have) for pushing out the cotterpin with lots of leverage. The
    > alternate method is:
    > loosen the nut holding the cotterpin in place so it's flush with the
    > end of the pin;
    > support the crankarm with a socket that goes around the head end of the
    > cotterpin;
    > hit the threaded end of the pin/nut with a hammer to dislodge it, then
    > remove nut and pin;
    > now the crank should come off - if it's stuck apply some torque to
    > loosen any rust.
    >>
    >> Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

    >
    > AFAIK, they all had standard 68 mm bottom brackets and English
    > threading so standard bottom brackets should fit.
    >
     
  7. Someone wrote:
    >
    >>I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    >>should invest any time or money.

    >

    An anonymous poster replied.
    >
    > The Record was an entry-level bike popular on college campusses during
    > the early '70s. It's a pretty heavy steel frame with no particular
    > unique value that I'm aware of, but should ride fine as long as it
    > hasn't been bent or otherwise damaged.
    >

    This is all true. It was Raleigh's bottom-of-the-line 10 speed. The
    frame does not differ in any important way from a Raleigh 3-speed frame
    of the same vintage.
    >
    >>Should I do it at all?

    >
    > I wouldn't spend much time or money on it, but it's up to you if you
    > have the necessary parts and time.
    >

    Right. Looks like it needs a good deal of work. However, it would
    probably be a nice rider in the end.
    >
    >>How do I get off the cottered cranks?

    >

    See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters for all of the gory details on this.
    >
    >>Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

    >
    > AFAIK, they all had standard 68 mm bottom brackets and English
    > threading so standard bottom brackets should fit.


    This is where the anonymous poster goes astray. This bike, like other
    Nottingham Raleighs, used Raleighs proprietary 26 tpi threading, and the
    bottom bracket shell is likel a good deal wider than 68 mm. The bike
    also uses an oddball headset, oddball frame/hub spacing front and rear,
    and will require brake calipers with an unusually long reach.

    I have a detailed article that covers these bikes, see:

    http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.

    Sheldon "BTDT" Brown
    +-----------------------------+
    | Razors pain you; |
    | Rivers are damp; |
    | Acids stain you; |
    | And drugs cause cramp; |
    | Guns aren't lawful; |
    | Nooses give; |
    | Gas smells awful; |
    | You might as well live. |
    | --Dorothy Parker |
    +-----------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  8. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    The Eye wrote:
    > I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
    > Record frame.
    >
    > Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html
    >
    > I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    > should invest any time or money.
    >
    > My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
    > handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc
    >
    > Should I do it at all?
    >
    > How do I get off the cottered cranks?
    >
    > Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?
    >
    > Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.


    The typical costly issues for upgrades of bikes this old are wheels and
    cranks.

    I was able to find an inexpensive set of new wheels and had some nice
    cranks (80's stuff from another bike upgrade), so I built up a Raleigh
    Record for my son. I kept the original bars, stem, brake levers and
    calipers, BB cups -- found a workable length square taper spindle in my
    parts box. I upgraded with bar-end shifters, MTB seatpost, r. derailer,
    and pedals. Wound up with a pretty nice road bike for less than $200 out
    of pocket. He loves it.
     
  9. JeffWills

    JeffWills Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:
    >
    > This is where the anonymous poster goes astray. This bike, like other
    > Nottingham Raleighs, used Raleighs proprietary 26 tpi threading, and the
    > bottom bracket shell is likel a good deal wider than 68 mm. The bike
    > also uses an oddball headset, oddball frame/hub spacing front and rear,
    > and will require brake calipers with an unusually long reach.
    >
    > I have a detailed article that covers these bikes, see:
    >


    I'm not certain that's the case. My single-speed (based on a Grand
    Prix: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/grand-prix.html ) uses
    a standard 68mm-wide English-thread BB. The fork used the oddball
    thread, which cased me to swap it out for a GT fork. From the pictures,
    I'd guess the OP's bike is from the same era.

    The brake reach was another problem- it's still got the Weinmann
    centerpulls on it. They work OK.

    Jeff
     
  10. On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 19:33:54 -0500, The Eye wrote:

    > My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
    > handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc
    >
    > Should I do it at all?


    If you want to ride it, do it. It's kinda rusty, and never was a
    top-of-the-line bike, but it's better than gaspipe.
    >
    > How do I get off the cottered cranks?


    Loosen the nut on the cotter pin (wedge-shaped bolt) some. Thwack it
    gently with a substantial mallet. Loosen nut again, repeat. If it
    resists, thwack it less gently. You will probably damage the cotter pins,
    but you aren't planning to use this crank, anyway, or so I gather.

    > Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?


    should be no problem. It's probably English threaded, which is the
    current standard. Check that the shell is 68mm wide, and that the
    right-hand cup has left-hand threads. If so, modern English (ISO)
    threaded bottom brackets will fit. If it's 70mm wide, and the right-hand
    cup is right-hand threaded, it would be Italian (unlikely, but most likely
    alternative), which is also available.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Let's be straight here. If we find something we can't
    _`\(,_ | understand we like to call it something you can't understand, or
    (_)/ (_) | indeed even pronounce. -- Douglas Adams
     

  11. >>How do I get off the cottered cranks?

    >

    A well-meaning poster gave a bunch of bad advice:
    >
    > Loosen the nut on the cotter pin (wedge-shaped bolt) some. Thwack it
    > gently with a substantial mallet.


    No, "gently" _never_ works. Nor does a mallet. If you don't have
    access to a cotter press, you have to hit it HARD with a HAMMER.

    See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cotters

    > Loosen nut again, repeat. If it
    > resists, thwack it less gently. You will probably damage the cotter pins,


    Certainly, not "probably." If you don't hit it hard enough to drive the
    cotter out with the first or second blow, the cotter will definitely be
    toast.

    > but you aren't planning to use this crank, anyway, or so I gather.
    >

    It would save a LOT of trouble to use the crank and bottom bracket as it
    is. If it were mine, I'd drip a bunch of oil down the seat tube and
    ride it.
    >
    >>Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

    >
    > should be no problem. It's probably English threaded, which is the
    > current standard.


    No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
    available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
    more than the frame is worth.

    See: http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26 for details and strategies.

    > Check that the shell is 68mm wide, and that the
    > right-hand cup has left-hand threads. If so, modern English (ISO)
    > threaded bottom brackets will fit. If it's 70mm wide, and the right-hand
    > cup is right-hand threaded, it would be Italian (unlikely, but most likely
    > alternative), which is also available.


    Italian on a Raleigh? You've gotta be kidding!

    Sheldon "No Way" Brown
    +--------------------------------------------+
    | Nothing is given so profusely as advice. |
    | - Francois, Duc de la Rouchefoucauld |
    +--------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  12. I wouldn't be interested in saving this bicycle. It has a "gaspipe"
    carbon-steel plain gauge frameset meaning it probably weighs about 8 lbs.

    About the best thing going for this bike is that it's way lighter than
    a schwinn varsity or continental - sub 30 lbs, maybe 29 lbs.

    The bottom bracket has custom raleigh threads, as does the headset.
    There is no source for a replacement headset if yours fails.

    If you are interested in putting on a new crankset, then you just want
    to buy a new cotterless axle. You cannot change out the cups without
    incurring a big expense (typically for phil wood retaining cups and a
    shimano or phil wood cartridge bottom bracket, $70 - $120 which is
    more than the value of the entire bike right now.)

    Good luck,

    - Don Gillies
    San Diego, CA
     
  13. This bike is the perfect application for this product :

    https://www.theruststore.com/Evapo-Rust-Gallon-P1C1.aspx

    From other articles i've seen on the internet, this product is able to
    remove rust from a painted frame without disturbing the paint. If you
    are able to do this, then perhaps you can slap a coat of thick wax
    onto the frameset before it rusts up again. BUT : you will need to
    devise a way to soak the tubes, this stuff takes 24 hours to work and
    cannot just be "brushed on".

    Your Raleigh Record bottom bracket is almost certainly raleigh 26 tpi.
    I couldn't get my sugino maxy crankset onto my raleigh grand prix in
    1975 - one model up in the raleigh lineup - so i ended up just using
    the spindle.

    If you can figure out a way to have fun with this frame, then of
    course its worth building up again. For example, let's say you have
    20 parts in your parts box and want to see if they still work. Well,
    that's fun. BUT I wouldn't sink more than $10 into this frame. So,
    I'm not sure if it'd be worth buying some Evapo-Rust if this were the
    only application.

    I like to restore Raleighs starting 3 steps up in the raleigh line
    (starting at the gran sport.) Those bikes imho are worth $200+ in
    good condition and so if you can get one for $100-$120 then you can
    have some fun and get a great bike without losing your shirt. The
    gran sport is mostly reynolds 531, weighs 24 or 25 lbs - and is very
    similar to the Raleigh International - a Grand Touring bike -
    recommended by Grant Peterson of Rivendell / Bridgestone.

    - Don Gillies
    San Diego, CA
     
  14. taking the old pipe apart requires brushing threads, soaking in pc
    blaster, razor blading the meeting thread...
    redoing the pipe's insides-somehow scrapping the crap out. there are
    posrts on thios in tech archives but there are experts who do it for
    you with steam and caustic
    it is reasonable to clean the pipes out with thinner, lket dry, and
    coat with rustoleum white and a cover of metallic latex if possible.
    this maybe can solve the inetrior rust problem for the life of the
    rider-if the pipes not too far gone.
    so you need to take it apart to see what gives!!
    i have an '87 that i am told runs like a Tuscany
    the rebuild (over time) cost $400.
     
  15. On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:49:55 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:

    >
    >>>How do I get off the cottered cranks?

    >>

    > A well-meaning poster gave a bunch of bad advice:


    Bad day, I guess
    >>
    >> Loosen the nut on the cotter pin (wedge-shaped bolt) some. Thwack it
    >> gently with a substantial mallet.

    >
    > No, "gently" _never_ works. Nor does a mallet. If you don't have
    > access to a cotter press, you have to hit it HARD with a HAMMER.


    Well, that was slightly tongue-in-cheek. But not all mallets are equal.
    I have a serious persuader; the head is the size of a standard rubber
    mallet, but made of lead. It'd get a cotter pin out.

    >>>Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?

    >>
    >> should be no problem. It's probably English threaded, which is the
    >> current standard.

    >
    > No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
    > available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
    > more than the frame is worth.


    My mistake.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
    _`\(,_ | Excellence.
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  16. JeffWills

    JeffWills Guest

    The unstoppable Sheldon Brown sayeth:

    > > No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
    > > available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
    > > more than the frame is worth.

    >
    > My mistake.
    >


    Mine to- I had forgotten that I'd run a 24tpi tap through the BB
    threads on my Raleigh single-speeder. So far, the bottom bracket's
    stayed in place.

    Jeff
     
  17. that's 400 plus tools...
     
  18. The Eye wrote:

    > I did a bit of dumpster driving recently and brought home this Raleigh
    > Record frame.
    >
    > Here are a group of pictures http://family.technoscribe.net/record.html
    >
    > I am not that knowledgeable about bikes/models so I am not sure whether I
    > should invest any time or money.
    >
    > My plan is to make this into a road style single speed bike. I have the
    > handle bars, brakes, wheels, etc
    >
    > Should I do it at all?
    >
    > How do I get off the cottered cranks?
    >
    > Can I buy a cartridge bottom bracket for this frame?
    >
    > Any other information or thoughts would be appreciated.


    If that sticker on the seat tube once said "Reynolds 531", get it
    re-enamelled and keep it. Otherwise it might make a handy boat anchor.
     
  19. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > The unstoppable Sheldon Brown sayeth:
    >>>No, it isn't. It's Raleigh threaded, 26 tpi. The only currently
    >>>available bottom bracket for this is Phil Wood, which costs considerably
    >>>more than the frame is worth.


    JeffWills wrote:
    > Mine to- I had forgotten that I'd run a 24tpi tap through the BB
    > threads on my Raleigh single-speeder. So far, the bottom bracket's
    > stayed in place.


    Ditto . I what-the-heck ran a 24tpi tap through mine in
    1972. Hasn't been any trouble with the same TA cups I
    installed then.

    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  20. off course andrew never rides this pig
     
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