RANS QUALITY

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Bill In Indiana, May 30, 2003.

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  1. I used to own a Rans Rocket. It was a great and fast bike. I was a RANS Church member.

    Recently I decided to try a RANS VIVO. I picked up a new one at a wonderful bike shop but when I got
    home I noticed a dent in the main tube. The paint was just fine, It almost appeared as if the frame
    was painted with the dent already in it.

    The bike shop ordered a new one and a week later I drove another 140 mile round trip to exchange the
    bikes. They loaded the boxes on my trailer, as I agreed to put it together.

    Got home and guess what? A DENT IN THE MAIN TUBE. This time it was in a different place. Called RANS
    and they stated that their frames are made in Taiwan now (something I did know) and that they don't
    open the boxes prior to shipping them to the dealers.

    Trying to do them a favor, I wanted them to know the information because there is likely a problem.
    What are the odds of a coincidence ? They were kind at first and were going to ship a frame to my
    house. However, at the last minute the gentleman stated he would have to send it to the bike shop,
    which will require me to drive another 140 mile round trip. He had taken my address and told me that
    he would send it to me, only to be interrupted by someone (a dick I would assume) and came back to
    the phone to tell me I would have make another round trip (3rd time) He got argumentative and tried
    to blame the bike shop for not checking the bike (putting it together) before selling it to me. Ha!
    TERRIBLE QUALITY should be caught be the bike shop owner, not the manufacturer!

    RANS SUCK (in my opinion) They chose to go to Taiwan and it appears that this has caused me 300
    miles of driving and a several long distance phone calls. I used to be in the church, but they truly
    are not the same company in my opinion. You decide for yourself, but beware of damaged bikes.
     
    Tags:


  2. Baronn1

    Baronn1 Guest

    RANS was right, the LBS did let you down. As the reseller (dealer), what value did that LBS add to
    the transaction? Doesn't sound like they were very thorough, and you paid the price. It is incumbent
    upon the reseller to properly assemble the product, and QA it prior to delivery. If RANS shipped the
    bike to you, and there was another issue, say something mechanical, now they are faced with a
    dilemma. Was it a quality issue, or faulty assembly due to an inexperienced mechanic putting it
    together (*you may be a whiz, but they can't know that). I work for an computer manufacturer, and we
    would urge our customer to seek out a different reseller, and possibly decommission that reseller if
    things like this became the norm. I understand you may not a have a ready choice of another
    reseller, but exclusivity in an area doesn't excuse that reseller from their responsibility.

    "Bill in Indiana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I used to own a Rans Rocket. It was a great and fast bike. I was a RANS Church member.
    >
    > Recently I decided to try a RANS VIVO. I picked up a new one at a wonderful bike shop but when I
    > got home I noticed a dent in the main tube. The paint was just fine, It almost appeared as if
    > the frame
    was
    > painted with the dent already in it.
    >
    > The bike shop ordered a new one and a week later I drove another 140 mile round trip to exchange
    > the bikes. They loaded the boxes on my trailer, as I agreed to
    put
    > it together.
    >
    > Got home and guess what? A DENT IN THE MAIN TUBE. This time it was in a different place. Called
    > RANS and they stated that their frames are made in Taiwan now (something I did know) and that they
    > don't open the boxes prior to shipping them to the dealers.
    >
    > Trying to do them a favor, I wanted them to know the information because there is likely a
    > problem. What are the odds of a coincidence ? They were kind at first and were going to ship a
    frame
    > to my house. However, at the last minute the gentleman stated he would have to send it to the bike
    > shop, which will require me to drive another 140 mile round trip. He had taken my address and told
    > me that he would send it to me, only to be interrupted by someone (a dick I would assume) and came
    > back to the phone to tell me I would have make another round trip (3rd time) He got argumentative
    > and tried to blame the bike shop for not checking the bike (putting it together) before selling it
    > to me. Ha! TERRIBLE QUALITY
    should
    > be caught be the bike shop owner, not the manufacturer!
    >
    > RANS SUCK (in my opinion) They chose to go to Taiwan and it appears that this has caused me 300
    > miles of driving and a several long distance phone calls. I used to be in the church, but they
    > truly are not the same
    company
    > in my opinion. You decide for yourself, but beware of damaged bikes.
     
  3. Bentbiker

    Bentbiker Guest

    I wouldn't "hang" RANS or the dealer, very unfortunate, but they are trying to rectify it, RANS is
    one of the best in customer service.

    baronn1 wrote:
    > RANS was right, the LBS did let you down. As the reseller (dealer), what value did that LBS add to
    > the transaction? Doesn't sound like they were very thorough, and you paid the price. It is
    > incumbent upon the reseller to properly assemble the product, and QA it prior to delivery. If RANS
    > shipped the bike to you, and there was another issue, say something mechanical, now they are faced
    > with a dilemma. Was it a quality issue, or faulty assembly due to an inexperienced mechanic
    > putting it together (*you may be a whiz, but they can't know that). I work for an computer
    > manufacturer, and we would urge our customer to seek out a different reseller, and possibly
    > decommission that reseller if things like this became the norm. I understand you may not a have a
    > ready choice of another reseller, but exclusivity in an area doesn't excuse that reseller from
    > their responsibility.
    >
    >
    > "Bill in Indiana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>I used to own a Rans Rocket. It was a great and fast bike. I was a RANS Church member.
    >>
    >>Recently I decided to try a RANS VIVO. I picked up a new one at a wonderful bike shop but when I
    >>got home I noticed a dent in the main tube. The paint was just fine, It almost appeared as if
    >>the frame
    >
    > was
    >
    >>painted with the dent already in it.
    >>
    >>The bike shop ordered a new one and a week later I drove another 140 mile round trip to exchange
    >>the bikes. They loaded the boxes on my trailer, as I agreed to
    >
    > put
    >
    >>it together.
    >>
    >>Got home and guess what? A DENT IN THE MAIN TUBE. This time it was in a different place. Called
    >>RANS and they stated that their frames are made in Taiwan now (something I did know) and that they
    >>don't open the boxes prior to shipping them to the dealers.
    >>
    >>Trying to do them a favor, I wanted them to know the information because there is likely a
    >>problem. What are the odds of a coincidence ? They were kind at first and were going to ship a
    >
    > frame
    >
    >>to my house. However, at the last minute the gentleman stated he would have to send it to the bike
    >>shop, which will require me to drive another 140 mile round trip. He had taken my address and told
    >>me that he would send it to me, only to be interrupted by someone (a dick I would assume) and came
    >>back to the phone to tell me I would have make another round trip (3rd time) He got argumentative
    >>and tried to blame the bike shop for not checking the bike (putting it together) before selling it
    >>to me. Ha! TERRIBLE QUALITY
    >
    > should
    >
    >>be caught be the bike shop owner, not the manufacturer!
    >>
    >>RANS SUCK (in my opinion) They chose to go to Taiwan and it appears that this has caused me 300
    >>miles of driving and a several long distance phone calls. I used to be in the church, but they
    >>truly are not the same
    >
    > company
    >
    >>in my opinion. You decide for yourself, but beware of damaged bikes.
    >>
    >>
    >
     
  4. WRONG. It was not the bike shop. I asked to put the second bike together. (What little there is to
    put together.) They obliged only because that was the only way I could haul the thing. IN A BOX. Who
    would have thought that TWO BIKES IN A ROW would be damaged? No visible damage on the box. It
    clearly isn't shipping damage.

    They admit that they don't even check the work coming from Taiwan. They send it out without checking
    the work (at least that was what I was told on the phone.) You must have missed that part. You
    simply glazed over that fact I guess.

    To their credit, they sent out another frame right away. I will hand it to them on that...but I hope
    they opened the box and checked for damage! I thought they would be happy to know about these
    incidents so as to correct any possible packing problems etc.

    I had TWO Greenspeeds shipped from AUSTRALIA and neither one had ANY damage. Quite a difference I
    would say.
     
  5. Bentbiker

    Bentbiker Guest

    no doubt it's a manufacturing defect in Taiwan. The reason they don't inspect them is the packing
    and unpacking is hard on a bike, they'd probably have more cosmetic damming etc. and just run the
    odds. I think it is important you point it out to them, and I think it's more important they stand
    by their product, which as far as i know, they always do, always have. Again, an unfortunate and
    frustrating experience i'm sure, but be thankful somebody answers the phone these days, and actually
    tries to resolve it.

    Bill in Indiana wrote:
    > WRONG. It was not the bike shop. I asked to put the second bike together. (What little there is to
    > put together.) They obliged only because that was the only way I could haul the thing. IN A BOX.
    > Who would have thought that TWO BIKES IN A ROW would be damaged? No visible damage on the box. It
    > clearly isn't shipping damage.
    >
    > They admit that they don't even check the work coming from Taiwan. They send it out without
    > checking the work (at least that was what I was told on the phone.) You must have missed that
    > part. You simply glazed over that fact I guess.
    >
    > To their credit, they sent out another frame right away. I will hand it to them on that...but I
    > hope they opened the box and checked for damage! I thought they would be happy to know about these
    > incidents so as to correct any possible packing problems etc.
    >
    > I had TWO Greenspeeds shipped from AUSTRALIA and neither one had ANY damage. Quite a difference I
    > would say.
    >
    >
     
  6. Greg Dunn

    Greg Dunn Guest

    >>
    The reason they don't inspect them is the packing and unpacking is hard on a bike <<

    It also takes somebody's time, which costs money, which ultimately must be paid for by the customer
    (who wants the bike to be as friendly to his budget as possible). Bill in Indiana, I think maybe you
    just got unlucky. Or it might be that, in your circumstance (70 miles from the bike shop), a
    different brand that does more perspicacious inspection (and probably costs more) might be more
    economical for you overall.

    Of course, if it had happened to me, I'd probably be fuming just like you. :cool:

    --
    Greg Dunn

    "bentbiker" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > no doubt it's a manufacturing defect in Taiwan. The reason they don't inspect them is the packing
    > and unpacking is hard on a bike, they'd probably have more cosmetic damming etc. and just run the
    > odds. I think it is important you point it out to them, and I think it's more important they stand
    > by their product, which as far as i know, they always do, always have. Again, an unfortunate and
    > frustrating experience i'm sure, but be thankful somebody answers the phone these days, and
    > actually tries to resolve it.
    >
    > Bill in Indiana wrote:
    > > WRONG. It was not the bike shop. I asked to put the second bike together. (What little there is
    > > to put together.) They obliged only because that was the only way I could haul the thing.
    IN A
    > > BOX. Who would have thought that TWO BIKES IN A ROW would be damaged? No visible damage on
    > > the box.
    It
    > > clearly isn't shipping damage.
    > >
    > > They admit that they don't even check the work coming from Taiwan. They send it out without
    > > checking the work (at least that was what I was told
    on
    > > the phone.) You must have missed that part. You simply glazed over
    that
    > > fact I guess.
    > >
    > > To their credit, they sent out another frame right away. I will hand it
    to
    > > them on that...but I hope they opened the box and checked for damage! I thought they would be
    > > happy to know about these incidents so as to
    correct
    > > any possible packing problems etc.
    > >
    > > I had TWO Greenspeeds shipped from AUSTRALIA and neither one had ANY
    damage.
    > > Quite a difference I would say.
    > >
    > >
    > >
     
  7. If I were you I'd be done with Rans. If they don't care enough to open a box before sending it off,
    then I don't want to deal with them. If they care more about supporting their dealer network than
    saving me a 140 mile trip, then I'm through.

    If this happened to you twice in a row, how many others has it happened to? This is exactly why
    bents aren't more popular. Bent companies #1 objective is to make the cheapest bikes possible.
    Objective #2 is kissing LBS ass than the end customer.

    Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with being frugal. But they're just cheap because they're
    afraid of the risk. The thing is, most of us are willing to pay for quality. When will they learn?
     
  8. La

    La Guest

    Lawrence Turner wrote:

    > IDon't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with being frugal. But they're just cheap because
    > they're afraid of the risk. The thing is, most of us are willing to pay for quality. When will
    > they learn?

    That's why I buy Burley.

    Lon HepCat x2 Double Vision
     
  9. g19glock1

    g19glock1 New Member

    Joined:
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    I for one am totally satisfied with my RANS V-Rex. It suits me perfectly, and any dealings that I have had with RANS have been pleasant.

    Quality control is very subjective at best. It is difficult enough to try to consistantly manufacture a product to a set of build standards in this country, let alone another. I work as the warranty manager of a major RV corporation and know of the difficulties of quality control.
    Build standards, such as they are, are established by someone, or a group of someones, who feel this is the way that it should be. You our I may or may not disagree with their evaluation of what the build standard is. One person may see a scratch in the panneling one way, and another person see that same scratch in another way. Totally a personal evaluation when it comes down to the individual purchase. Corporations realize that they cannot satisfy all the people all the time. It's impossible, so they (mostly) do the best that they can, and offer the best customer service that they can, most times bending over backwards for the customer, even when the customer is at fault. (No judgement being rendered in this particular case.)

    Without knowing what RANS build standards are, or who established them it is difficult to pass judgement on RANS products as a whole, based on minimal information. I have to track, code, analyze each line item on every claim that comes in to my corporation just so we can identify the problems and have a goal towards improving the build standard, which we modify all the time.

    USA interpretation of the RANS build standards might be interpreted differently in another country. There are so may variables involved in manufacturing, that no product will ever be 100 percent perfect 100 percent of the time.

    IMHO
     
  10. My Turn To "Bill in Indiana" Tell the guy at the top of the food chain @ RANS that you are not a
    happy camper. Explain the problem and explain the "lack of customer service" you got from RANS...and
    (add) a printout of comments from other bent riders who contributed to this A.R.B.R.thread and I'll
    bet you'll get some positive reaction real fast from RANS. RANS (like most) bent makers do not spend
    a pile of cash on adverts, they rely on "word of mouth" to sell their product and RANS has always
    gone out of their way to co-operate with their customers. One disgruntled customer could easily
    bring down a company and damage all that goodwill RANS is well known for. RANS is NOT going to throw
    their good reputation away so easily...but tell the owner of the company and stop dealing with the
    folks who gave you a rough time in customer service.

    You will be doing RANS and all RANS customers (present & future) a diservice by not going to the top
    and letting the top know there is a problem in customer service. I have always been a big fan of the
    RANS Stratus and V2 design and feel it unfortunate that RANS has to rely upon Taiwan to build what
    could so easily be built in America with a little extra $ for tooling...but as long as people
    continue to convert to the Church of RANS, then RANS has no $$ incentive to manufacture in
    America...re: they are giving customers what their customers are willing to support, so why change
    what works.
    ---------------------------
    "Lawrence Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > If I were you I'd be done with Rans. If they don't care enough to open a box before sending it
    > off, then I don't want to deal with them. If they care more about supporting their dealer network
    > than saving me a 140 mile trip, then I'm through.
    >
    > If this happened to you twice in a row, how many others has it happened to? This is exactly why
    > bents aren't more popular. Bent companies #1 objective is to make the cheapest bikes possible.
    > Objective #2 is kissing LBS ass than the end customer.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with being frugal. But they're just cheap because
    > they're afraid of the risk. The thing is, most of us are willing to pay for quality. When will
    > they learn?
     
  11. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    IMHO Even though you needed the bike in a box to transport it, it was the bike shop's job to open
    the box and make sure the bike was ok, not RANS'. This is what retailers are supposed to do. This is
    the reason for retailers; to make sure that at that final stage, when the product goes to the end
    customer, that it is in good condition, adjusted properly etc.

    The only other logical place for inspection is at the factory before the bike goes into the box.
    This should be part of factory quality control. If these bikes are dinged at the factory, not in
    shipping, RANS needs to have talk with their supplier.

    Johnriley1 (at) rogers.com
     
  12. Rick Steele

    Rick Steele Guest

    "Bill in Indiana" <[email protected]> wrote :

    > I used to own a Rans Rocket. It was a great and fast bike. I was a RANS Church member.
    >
    > Recently I decided to try a RANS VIVO. I picked up a new one at a wonderful bike shop but when I
    > got home I noticed a dent in the main tube. The paint was just fine, It almost appeared as if
    > the frame
    was
    > painted with the dent already in it.

    [snip]

    Bill, does your Vivo have the Rad-Lock seat clamp mechanism? If so, it was my understanding (I could
    be wrong) that the Vivo models for this year were to be retro-fitted to Rad-Lock. They had the older
    seat slider bracket mounted to the frame, then was removed, and frame air-brushed for touch-up. I
    believe removing the bracket in some instances will reveal some ding that can't be removed. I have
    pulled off some on older Rans bikes where there would only be some scratches in the paint..

    Rick Steele

    Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra #103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305 email:
    [email protected] website: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com
     
  13. Drrecumbnt

    Drrecumbnt Guest

    IMHO, bikes coming from Taiwan are never packed as well as they should be. If the mfrs don't open
    the boxes to check the bikes, there could be surprises for the LBS. Either the mfr and LBS should
    have caught this.

    I can almost always tell when I get a test bike that's come to me via a mfr in a box packed in
    Taiwan and not opened until I get it. One of my last test bike situations was a bike that arrived
    with parts all over the inside of the box (nuts, allen bolts, quick releases etc; parts box ripped
    open). I was shocked that everything was still in the box. The bike had other problems with the seat
    and seat track, the rear shifting, etc. It was a complete mess (not a RANS).

    I heard one story where a mfr showed them how to pack a bike, they did it a few times and went back
    their standard procedure. Another problem I've heard of more than once is the Taiwan mfrs switching
    their vendors for items such as seat foam, seat mesh, etc, which can result in problems. Sometimes
    the company doesn't find out until the problems arise.

    We've had far fewer problems with bikes built/ or assembled in the USA, Germany, UK, Australia; or
    where the mfr/dlr does at least a bench test prior to shipment to us. I also think that recumbent
    specialist dealers know more what to expect and might notice something like this (and keep the end
    customer from every noticing any problems), where a regular LBS with limited recumbent experience
    might not.

    Some "manufacturers" don't really manufacture much these days. It has become more like relabeling.
    If there is no stateside QC, a little problem can get out of hand fast. We've seen it before.

    I've taken a lot of crap for my comments on Taiwan and written about it in RCN 067 and RCN 069
    (Taiwan-Built Recumbents — A Bad Thing?). This is a free download at our website.

    I have a bit of experience with all of this. I've been taking recumbent test bikes out of boxes
    since 1987.

    Bob Bryant http://www.recumbentcyclistnews.com
     
  14. Bentbiker

    Bentbiker Guest

    i've had experience with many RANS/SUN/Nils Palm built bikes from Taiwan. I've never had anything
    i'd consider a problem to be honest. The welds and finish have always been very good. In fact, the
    RANS paint/powder coat is much more "lustrous" since it went over seas, and yes i'm aware of [and
    currently have] one of the Rockets is with the supposed "soft paint". All that said, it's an
    economic thing, and RANS shouldn't be knocked for having the bikes built there, they are bringing
    tremendous product to market at competitive prices. The custom made in the "USA" experience is very
    nice also, but the obvious downfall, is [except for Burley] limited supply. Buy from Turner,
    Longbikes, Burley and one of my new favorites ORGANIC ENGINES, and get that "home grown"
    experience. In this entire thread though, i haven't seen one other RANS/Tawain built bike
    complaint. DrRecumbnt wrote:
    > IMHO, bikes coming from Taiwan are never packed as well as they should be. If the mfrs don't open
    > the boxes to check the bikes, there could be surprises for the LBS. Either the mfr and LBS should
    > have caught this.
    >
    > I can almost always tell when I get a test bike that's come to me via a mfr in a box packed in
    > Taiwan and not opened until I get it. One of my last test bike situations was a bike that arrived
    > with parts all over the inside of the box (nuts, allen bolts, quick releases etc; parts box ripped
    > open). I was shocked that everything was still in the box. The bike had other problems with the
    > seat and seat track, the rear shifting, etc. It was a complete mess (not a RANS).
    >
    > I heard one story where a mfr showed them how to pack a bike, they did it a few times and went
    > back their standard procedure. Another problem I've heard of more than once is the Taiwan mfrs
    > switching their vendors for items such as seat foam, seat mesh, etc, which can result in problems.
    > Sometimes the company doesn't find out until the problems arise.
    >
    > We've had far fewer problems with bikes built/ or assembled in the USA, Germany, UK, Australia; or
    > where the mfr/dlr does at least a bench test prior to shipment to us. I also think that recumbent
    > specialist dealers know more what to expect and might notice something like this (and keep the end
    > customer from every noticing any problems), where a regular LBS with limited recumbent experience
    > might not.
    >
    > Some "manufacturers" don't really manufacture much these days. It has become more like relabeling.
    > If there is no stateside QC, a little problem can get out of hand fast. We've seen it before.
    >
    > I've taken a lot of crap for my comments on Taiwan and written about it in RCN 067 and RCN 069
    > (Taiwan-Built Recumbents — A Bad Thing?). This is a free download at our website.
    >
    > I have a bit of experience with all of this. I've been taking recumbent test bikes out of boxes
    > since 1987.
    >
    > Bob Bryant http://www.recumbentcyclistnews.com
     
  15. Baronn1

    Baronn1 Guest

    Well stated, I wholeheartedly agree.

    "john riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > IMHO Even though you needed the bike in a box to transport it, it was the bike shop's job to open
    > the box and make sure the bike was ok, not RANS'. This is what retailers are supposed to do. This
    > is the reason for retailers; to make sure that at that final stage, when the product goes to the
    > end customer, that it is in good condition, adjusted properly etc.
    >
    > The only other logical place for inspection is at the factory before the bike goes into the box.
    > This should be part of factory quality control. If these bikes are dinged at the factory, not in
    > shipping, RANS needs to have talk with their supplier.
    >
    > Johnriley1 (at) rogers.com
     
  16. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    "Wile E. Coyote" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>... [...]
    > I have always been a big fan of the RANS Stratus and V2 design and feel it unfortunate that RANS
    > has to rely upon Taiwan to build what could so easily be built in America with a little extra $
    > for tooling...[...]

    Quality is quality. You can get good or bad regardless of the country of origin. IIRC at the time
    the switch was made, it was difficult to get skilled welders in the middle of Kansas.

    I would think by now, with your trike experience, you would have some appreciation of the
    complexity involved.

    john riley
     
  17. I don't get all the apologizing on behalf of RANS. Some seem to be blaming the dealer, the builder
    in Taiwan, when this is ENTIRELY Rans' fault!

    Rans sells to the dealer and is a customer of the manufacturer. It's Rans' product. If neither of
    these alliances are benefiting the end customer, why develop them in the first place?

    If Rans is truly committed to making a quality product and providing quality customer service, they
    would build AND sell in house. That way they could monitor everything, from the quality to the
    customer experience.

    But Rans, and other bent companies, are interested in passing the buck
    - and responsibility - to others. Great companies with great products let them stand on their own.
    How does Rans fit into this scheme? That, my friend, is why you drove 280 miles (soon to be 420)
    for bent frames. If I were you, I'd be getting a damned refund.
     
  18. I disagree. Rans decision - economical or not - was to outsource mfg oversees. They risked quality
    for the sake of price. They profit from the advantaages, why not blame them for the downfalls of
    their decision?

    Pop Quiz: you visit your LBS and see two great looking bikes side by side. As far as you can tell,
    they're identical, but one is 30% cheaper. You inquire on the price difference only to be told, "The
    cheaper model is manufactured overseas. We can't be totally sure it was built the way the designer
    intended, and it is also subject to improper packaging. Because it was built overseas to save on
    costs, certain parts of the bike may wear out sooner than intended."

    Which bike do you choose? I know which choice I would make. I am willing to pay for quality. I also
    like to see stuff made in America. Other people will do anything to save a dime. I think most are in
    the same category as me, but most bents are targeted to the penny pinchers.
     
  19. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Guest

    On 31 May 2003 16:02:56 -0700, [email protected] (Lawrence Turner) wrote:

    >I don't get all the apologizing on behalf of RANS. Some seem to be blaming the dealer, the builder
    >in Taiwan, when this is ENTIRELY Rans' fault!
    >

    ----Disclaimer : I have a V-Rex and have had nothing but good experiences with RANS-------

    To me " fault" isn't the issue as much as RESPONSILITY. It's RANS product and their name they are
    selling ....and their name that is being hurt I might add...and they are RESPONSIBLE. They slelected
    the manufacturer and the reseller (LBS)

    I own a business and understand how they might have a wayward vendor or reseller that is causing
    quality problems - but the problems are NOT the customers.

    The bike shop is selling their reputation as well.

    My vote - Boo on RANS and Boo on the not so local LBS
     
  20. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    [email protected] (Lawrence Turner) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I disagree. Rans decision - economical or not - was to outsource mfg oversees. They risked quality
    > for the sake of price. [...]

    If they did it because of price, it would be "economical" not "not". And as I said elsewhere, I
    don't know that that is the primary reason. It is difficult to have the employees and facilities and
    to keep them fully utilized with a handful of low volume products. I think both RANS and Peek did it
    more for logistical reasons than price.

    I haven't done component by component matching, but it looks to me like Taiwan bikes and US frame
    bikes are often in the same price range. _Maybe_ the companies with the Taiwan frames have better
    margins, but I don't think either of us know for sure. These bikes are low volume either way.

    Outsourcing spreads the risk to other companies who may be in a better position to utilize capacity.
    That said, I recognize that outsourcing may make quality control more challenging, but I don't think
    it makes it impossible.

    If you want to buy a bike with a US frame (note that the components, the actual moving, friction
    producing parts are also from various places) that's fine; they are available. But that is no
    guarentee of quality. Quality is not dependent on country of origin. Some US frame bikes have had
    issues too.

    John Riley
     
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