RANS V2 Formula

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Jack Davis, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    Now that RANS is finally shipping the V2-F, does anyone have enough time on one to comment? I intend
    to buy one but have yet to even see one....I'd be buying on reputation of the RANS company and
    experience with other RANS models. Thanks.... Jack
     
    Tags:


  2. Rick Steele

    Rick Steele Guest

    "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Now that RANS is finally shipping the V2-F, does anyone have enough time
    on
    > one to comment? I intend to buy one but have yet to even see one....I'd
    be
    > buying on reputation of the RANS company and experience with other RANS models. Thanks....

    Jack, do you live anywhere near Sacramento? You could try prying me off mine. I'm enjoying my new V2
    Formula XL demo bike very much. Somehow even the seat bottom agrees with my bottom, but that could
    be due to my expanding girth. It's definately faster than the steel V2's I've ridden and sold, but I
    do wish it came with a long cage RD and a wider ratio cassette. That's one area I will be addressing
    soon since I ride in the Sierra foothills.. The welds and finish are superb!

    Regards Rick Steele

    Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra Dr. Suite 103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305 Fax:
    (530) 672-0501 Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com
     
  3. In article <3fe09b60$0$7[email protected]>, Rick Steele says...
    >
    >"Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Now that RANS is finally shipping the V2-F, does anyone have enough time
    >on
    >> one to comment? I intend to buy one but have yet to even see one....I'd
    >be
    >> buying on reputation of the RANS company and experience with other RANS models. Thanks....
    >
    >Jack, do you live anywhere near Sacramento? You could try prying me off mine. I'm enjoying my new
    >V2 Formula XL demo bike very much. Somehow even the seat bottom agrees with my bottom, but that
    >could be due to my expanding girth. It's definately faster than the steel V2's I've ridden and
    >sold, but I do wish it came with a long cage RD and a wider ratio cassette. That's one area I will
    >be addressing soon since I ride in the Sierra foothills.. The welds and finish are superb!
    >
    >Regards Rick Steele

    Rick,

    A couple of questions. First, how would you characterize the ride? I'd be worried about the aluminum
    frame feeling a bit harsh.

    And second, any chance of getting a true weigth on your bike?

    Steve Christensen
     
  4. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    Rick,

    Thanks for the info. I was wondering about that narrow gear range too. If you have the XL, how tall
    are you? I would like to avoid the extra wheelbase....it's long enough as it is.

    I went thru Sacramento on an Amtrak train headed for SF a couple of years ago and the ride over
    the Sierras was beautiful, but I live in Ohio....(The Heart of the Rust-Belt)....about 2 thousand
    miles away.

    Maybe I'll be able to find one in Columbus, or Cincinnati???

    Ride on,

    Jack

    "Rick Steele" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Now that RANS is finally shipping the V2-F, does anyone have enough time
    > on
    > > one to comment? I intend to buy one but have yet to even see one....I'd
    > be
    > > buying on reputation of the RANS company and experience with other RANS models. Thanks....
    >
    > Jack, do you live anywhere near Sacramento? You could try prying me off mine. I'm enjoying my new
    > V2 Formula XL demo bike very much. Somehow
    even
    > the seat bottom agrees with my bottom, but that could be due to my
    expanding
    > girth. It's definately faster than the steel V2's I've ridden and sold,
    but
    > I do wish it came with a long cage RD and a wider ratio cassette. That's one area I will be
    > addressing soon since I ride in the Sierra foothills.. The welds and finish are superb!
    >
    > Regards Rick Steele
    >
    > Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra Dr. Suite 103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305 Fax:
    > (530) 672-0501 Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com
     
  5. Rick Steele

    Rick Steele Guest

    "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote

    [snip}

    > A couple of questions. First, how would you characterize the ride? I'd
    be
    > worried about the aluminum frame feeling a bit harsh.

    I was very surprised by the ride quality despite the fact that I'm riding on the CF seat base with
    thin foam covering, and narrow section Stelvio tires. Rides very smooth with my 6'2" / 185lb body.

    > And second, any chance of getting a true weigth on your bike?

    I just weighed my Formula XL with standard Velocity wheels at 28 lbs, no pedals, cages, etc.. Also,
    I swapped the medium riser 0032 with the longer 0033 for improved reach. I'm sure the weight given
    by RANS is for the standard frame. Swapping for the new RANS Zephyr seat should drop some more
    weight. Haven't yet weighed the stock Formula seat yet..

    Regards Rick Steele

    Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra Dr. Suite 103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305 Fax:
    (530) 672-0501 Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com
     
  6. PaPa

    PaPa New Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
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    0

    Sorry Rick, Although i certainly respect your opinion, I think your post is slightly emblished.... possibily deceptive. If you've riden both steel and aluminum V2's, you already know what's comin'.

    The following quote (and complete Formula article)....:

    "The first thing you will notice is the stiffness of the frame, it is like a taught bow ready to release the power. That is good overall since it nets exciting performance, but expect it to be a harsher ride."

    Can be found here: http://www.ransbikes.com/ITRFormula.htm
     
  7. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    PaPa <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<%5dEb.11960$%[email protected]usenetserver.com>...
    > Rick Steele wrote:
    > > "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote [snip}
    > > > A couple of questions. First, how would you characterize the ride? I'd
    > be
    > > > worried about the aluminum frame feeling a bit harsh.
    > > I was very surprised by the ride quality despite the fact that I'm riding on the CF seat base
    > > with thin foam covering, and narrow section Stelvio tires. Rides very smooth with my 6'2" /
    > > 185lb body.
    > > > And second, any chance of getting a true weigth on your bike?
    > > I just weighed my Formula XL with standard Velocity wheels at 28 lbs, no pedals, cages, etc..
    > > Also, I swapped the medium riser 0032 with the longer 0033 for improved reach. I'm sure the
    > > weight given by RANS is for the standard frame. Swapping for the new RANS Zephyr seat should
    > > drop some more weight. Haven't yet weighed the stock Formula seat yet.. Regards Rick Steele
    > > Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra Dr. Suite 103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305
    > > Fax:
    > > (530) 672-0501 Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com/http://www.tandems-
    > > recumbents.com

    > Sorry Rick, Although i certainly respect your opinion, I think your post is slightly emblished....
    > possibily deceptive. If you've riden both steel and aluminum V2's, you already know what's comin'.
    >
    > The following quote (and complete Formula article)....:
    >
    > "The first thing you will notice is the stiffness of the frame, it is like a taught bow ready to
    > release the power. That is good overall since it nets exciting performance, but expect it to be a
    > harsher ride."
    >
    > Can be found here: http://www.ransbikes.com/ITRFormula.htm

    Yeah, but note that he is a lot bigger than Randy Schlitter and that he is on an XL.
     
  8. PaPa

    PaPa New Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Speaking aluminum - If the rider's weight falls within the "average" designed rider weight (say +/- 30 pounds), then ride quality will NOT noticeably change. Why?.... because the designer's knowledge of aluminum's fatigue weakness won't permit significant flexing in a properly designed ALUMINUM frame.

    I'd hazard a guess that the Formula V2 frame would remain unpleasantly rigid somewhat beyond its designed static load. Why?... because the liability risks demand it.

    With all due respect John, "Rides very smooth" is clearly a misleading Formula V2 description.
     
  9. Rick Steele

    Rick Steele Guest

    "PaPa" <[email protected]> wrote:

    And I wrote:
    > > I was very surprised by the ride quality despite the fact that I'm riding on the CF seat base
    > > with thin foam covering, and narrow section Stelvio tires. Rides very smooth with my 6'2" /
    > > 185lb body.

    [snip]

    > Sorry Rick, Although i certainly respect your opinion, I think your post is slightly emblished....
    > possibily deceptive. If you've riden both steel and aluminum V2's, you already know what's comin'.
    >
    > The following quote (and complete Formula article)....:
    >
    > "The first thing you will notice is the stiffness of the frame, it is like a taught bow ready to
    > release the power. That is good overall since it nets exciting performance, but expect it to be a
    > harsher ride."

    I gave my own opinion on ride quality, and certainly I should have added YMMV.. Sorry about that.
    Strangely, the Formula XL I'm riding doesn't feel all that "harsh" to me and this is without the
    thick foam seat bottom the steel V2's come with. I was surprised! In anycase, I don't believe anyone
    should buy one or any other recumbent unless they have had a chance to test ride and find out for
    themself. We're a test ride center for recumbent and tandem bike builders, and strongly believe that
    test riding is very important in making a the decision on which bike to purchase or order..

    Regards Rick Steele

    Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra Dr. Suite 103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305 Fax:
    (530) 672-0501 Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com
     
  10. Kelly

    Kelly Guest

    "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<lo3Eb.16988$P%[email protected]>...
    > Rick,
    >
    > Thanks for the info. I was wondering about that narrow gear range too.
    > >

    Lower gearing for the V2 will perhaps require some mods to the idler pulley set up. We had a
    standard frame V2 Formula in our shop for a very short period of time and thus I did not have time
    to evaluate just what will be necessary to gear it lower but it will require something besides a
    lower small ring and lower range cassette. When a 26 tooth small ring is placed on the crank set the
    chain rubs the bottom of the brake arm. The new owner was in a hurry to take delivery so my research
    was cut short. If you look closely at the V2 chain line over the idler pulley you will note the
    return chain line is on the bottom of the idler pulley and on the Formula the chain line is on top.
    Might be as simple as reversing the location of the idler pulley to the bottom hole and the chain
    keeper to the top. I don't know because I ran out of time while setting the bike up with the new
    owner dancing around in the showroom. Kelly
     
  11. "Rick Steele" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    > [snip}
    >
    > > A couple of questions. First, how would you characterize the ride? I'd
    > be
    > > worried about the aluminum frame feeling a bit harsh.
    >
    > I was very surprised by the ride quality despite the fact that I'm riding on the CF seat base with
    > thin foam covering, and narrow section Stelvio tires. Rides very smooth with my 6'2" / 185lb body.
    >
    > > And second, any chance of getting a true weigth on your bike?
    >
    > I just weighed my Formula XL with standard Velocity wheels at 28 lbs, no pedals, cages, etc..
    > Also, I swapped the medium riser 0032 with the longer 0033 for improved reach. I'm sure the weight
    > given by RANS is for the standard frame. Swapping for the new RANS Zephyr seat should drop some
    > more weight.

    zephyrever teachout doesn't like talk about her weight.

    Haven't yet weighed the stock Formula seat yet..
    >
    > Regards Rick Steele
    >
    > Gold Country Cyclery 3081 Alhambra Dr. Suite 103 Cameron Park, CA 95682 Ph: (530) 676-3305 Fax:
    > (530) 672-0501 Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.tandems-recumbents.com
     
  12. [email protected] (Kelly) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Jack Davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<lo3Eb.16988$P%[email protected]>...
    > > Rick,
    > >
    > > Thanks for the info. I was wondering about that narrow gear range too.
    > > >
    >
    > Lower gearing for the V2 will perhaps require some mods to the idler pulley set up. We had a
    > standard frame V2 Formula in our shop for a very short period of time and thus I did not have time
    > to evaluate just what will be necessary to gear it lower but it will require something besides a
    > lower small ring and lower range cassette. When a 26 tooth small ring is placed on the crank set
    > the chain rubs the bottom of the brake arm. The new owner was in a hurry to take delivery so my
    > research was cut short. If you look closely at the V2 chain line over the idler pulley you will
    > note the return chain line is on the bottom of the idler pulley and on the Formula the chain line
    > is on top. Might be as simple as reversing the location of the idler pulley to the bottom hole and
    > the chain keeper to the top. I don't know because I ran out of time while setting the bike up with
    > the new owner dancing around in the showroom. Kelly

    Just curious what you did about the seat track mounting issue. The day before the standard size V2
    Formula I had on order for a customer arrived RANS called me and told me that had discovered that it
    appeared the entire first batch of standard size V2 Formulas had their seat tracks mounted out of
    alignment with the top tube so the seat would be tilted slightly to one side. As soon as I opened
    the box and confirmed this frame also had that issue they arranged to have the bike picked up. They
    are sending all these defective frames back to the manufacturer in Taiwan and having another batch
    done. The XL frames didn't have this alignment issue but all the standard size frames they checked
    were affected. My customer didn't want to wait an uncertain amount of time for a replacement so
    ordered a Fold-Rush instead which he just picked up today.

    Zach Kaplan
     
  13. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    PaPa <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > John Riley wrote:
    > > PaPa <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<%5dEb.11960$%[email protected]>... Yeah, but note that he is a lot
    > > bigger than Randy Schlitter and that he is on an XL.
    >
    >
    >
    > Speaking aluminum - If the rider's weight falls within the "average" designed rider weight (say
    > +/- 30 pounds), then ride quality will NOT noticeably change. Why?.... because the designer's
    > knowledge of aluminum's fatigue weakness won't permit significant flexing in a properly designed
    > ALUMINUM frame.
    >
    > I'd hazard a guess that the Formula V2 frame would remain unpleasantly rigid somewhat beyond its
    > designed static load. Why?... because the liability risks demand it.
    >
    > With all due respect John, "Rides very smooth" is clearly a misleading Formula V2 description.

    Not necessarily. The steel V2 seems to be designed to be stiff, perhaps to the point of being
    overbuilt. Obviously the wall thicknesses on the alu frame will be a lot thicker, but the tube
    diameters seem to be about the same; certainly not the large differences you see between steel and
    alu road bike frames. I know alu can't be allowed to flex as much as steel, but in this case, the
    steel bike was not designed to allow much flex. So it seems possible that the alu bike might even
    feel "smooth" with a larger rider on an XL frame.

    In any case, he was obviously just giving impressions based on acutally riding the bike, like the
    rest of us here, and to suggest that he was trying to intentionally mislead seems uncalled for.

    Average designed rider weight...Hmmm... that's a tricky one with recumbents! ;-)
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, Kelly says...

    >Lower gearing for the V2 will perhaps require some mods to the idler pulley set up. We had a
    >standard frame V2 Formula in our shop for a very short period of time and thus I did not have time
    >to evaluate just what will be necessary to gear it lower but it will require something besides a
    >lower small ring and lower range cassette. When a 26 tooth small ring is placed on the crank set
    >the chain rubs the bottom of the brake arm. The new owner was in a hurry to take delivery so my
    >research was cut short. If you look closely at the V2 chain line over the idler pulley you will
    >note the return chain line is on the bottom of the idler pulley and on the Formula the chain line
    >is on top. Might be as simple as reversing the location of the idler pulley to the bottom hole and
    >the chain keeper to the top.

    That's curious. My recent steel V2 came with the same idler pulley set up that is shown on the RANS
    web site for the Formula, the one mentioned above that has the chain above the lower pulley. My
    wife's 2001 V2 has the same pulley system as shown on the current steel V2, the one with the chain
    below the lower pulley. Both of our bikes have long cage SRAM rear DRs, 12-32 cogs, and 52/42/30
    chainwheels. We did experience a bit of rubbing on my bike on the bottom of the rear brake arm, but
    I was able to fix it by just removing one link.

    Steve Christensen
     
  15. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    Steve,

    With all the problems I might end up with a V2 in steel.....How do you and your wife like yours? Do
    you think it a big improvement over a Tailwind?

    TIA.... Jack

    "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Kelly
    says...
    >
    > >Lower gearing for the V2 will perhaps require some mods to the idler pulley set up. We had a
    > >standard frame V2 Formula in our shop for a very short period of time and thus I did not have
    > >time to evaluate just what will be necessary to gear it lower but it will require something
    > >besides a lower small ring and lower range cassette. When a 26 tooth small ring is placed on the
    > >crank set the chain rubs the bottom of the brake arm. The new owner was in a hurry to take
    > >delivery so my research was cut short. If you look closely at the V2 chain line over the idler
    > >pulley you will note the return chain line is on the bottom of the idler pulley and on the
    > >Formula the chain line is on top. Might be as simple as reversing the location of the idler
    > >pulley to the bottom hole and the chain keeper to the top.
    >
    >
    > That's curious. My recent steel V2 came with the same idler pulley set up
    that
    > is shown on the RANS web site for the Formula, the one mentioned above
    that has
    > the chain above the lower pulley. My wife's 2001 V2 has the same pulley
    system
    > as shown on the current steel V2, the one with the chain below the lower
    pulley.
    > Both of our bikes have long cage SRAM rear DRs, 12-32 cogs, and 52/42/30 chainwheels. We did
    > experience a bit of rubbing on my bike on the bottom
    of the
    > rear brake arm, but I was able to fix it by just removing one link.
    >
    > Steve Christensen
     
  16. In article <72IEb.17395$P%[email protected]>, Jack Davis says...
    >
    >Steve,
    >
    >With all the problems I might end up with a V2 in steel.....How do you and your wife like yours? Do
    >you think it a big improvement over a Tailwind?
    >
    >TIA.... Jack

    We are very pleased with ours. My biggest gripe has been that RANS changed the location of the
    seat pan when they went to the RAD loc system, and I had to add a lumbar cushion to keep from
    having my tailbone bottom out on the seat rim. That, and the fact that I didn't like their new
    "open cockpit" handlebar set up, as with it I couldn't recline the seat very much and still reach
    the bars. So on my 2003 I fitted the old style bars, which allows me to fully recline the seat to
    avoid recumbent butt.

    BUT, as I've mentioned before in posts on V2s, ours are not stock. We both ride custom V2s from
    Power On Cycling. The frames are steel, but the components have been upgraded to Ultegra level,
    and the wheels are Velocity Thracians. Having ridden both the stock 2003 V2s and these I can say
    there is quite a difference in performance. The price was about $1800 each. The only difference
    between these and the Formulas is the frame material, and the older, heavier, and thicker seat
    pads and pans.

    As for the Tailwind, I woulnd't think that a stock V2 would feel like that much of un upgrade from a
    Tailwind. The BBs are almost the same height, the components aren't that different, the wheelbases
    are only 4" apart, with the one great and obvious difference being the rear wheel.

    Steve Christensen
     
  17. Rick Steele

    Rick Steele Guest

    "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote:

    [snip]
    >
    > We are very pleased with ours. My biggest gripe has been that RANS
    changed the
    > location of the seat pan when they went to the RAD loc system, and I had
    to add
    > a lumbar cushion to keep from having my tailbone bottom out on the seat
    rim.
    > That, and the fact that I didn't like their new "open cockpit" handlebar
    set up,
    > as with it I couldn't recline the seat very much and still reach the bars.
    So
    > on my 2003 I fitted the old style bars, which allows me to fully recline
    the
    > seat to avoid recumbent butt.
    [snip]

    I was dissapointed that the 2003 V2's were coming in with the new 0036 handle bar instead of the
    double bend wide 0037 that's stock on the Formula. Most of the V2's we sell leave our shop with the
    wider more extended bar
    (0037) that improves reach. It allows most folks to fully recline where as the supplied bar doesn't!
    I've pushed on RANS to supply 04 V2's with the 0037 bar, but I don't think it's going to
    happen. The 04 Stratus models are coming in with the 0037 bar..

    Regards Rick Steele Gold Country Cyclery Cameron Park, CA
     
  18. In article <[email protected]>, Rick Steele says...
    >
    >
    >"Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >[snip]
    >>
    >> We are very pleased with ours. My biggest gripe has been that RANS
    >changed the
    >> location of the seat pan when they went to the RAD loc system, and I had
    >to add
    >> a lumbar cushion to keep from having my tailbone bottom out on the seat
    >rim.
    >> That, and the fact that I didn't like their new "open cockpit" handlebar
    >set up,
    >> as with it I couldn't recline the seat very much and still reach the bars.
    >So
    >> on my 2003 I fitted the old style bars, which allows me to fully recline
    >the
    >> seat to avoid recumbent butt.
    >[snip]
    >
    >I was dissapointed that the 2003 V2's were coming in with the new 0036 handle bar instead of the
    >double bend wide 0037 that's stock on the Formula. Most of the V2's we sell leave our shop with the
    >wider more extended bar
    >(0037) that improves reach. It allows most folks to fully recline where as the supplied bar
    > doesn't! I've pushed on RANS to supply 04 V2's with the 0037 bar, but I don't think it's
    > going to happen. The 04 Stratus models are coming in with the 0037 bar..
    >
    >Regards Rick Steele Gold Country Cyclery Cameron Park, CA

    That's a great point. The double wide double bend 37 is the bar I went with myself. That bar,
    mounted on the older 2002 riser and top loaded stem, is a really great combination on the V2.
    It's not an open cockpit, but it allows full recline, and offers a very relaxed and natural
    hand position.

    Steve Christensen
     
  19. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    PaPa wrote:
    > ... With all due respect John, "Rides very smooth" is clearly a misleading Formula V2 description.

    Yes, it uses an adjective where there should be an adverb.

    Tom Sherman - 41 N, 90 W
     
  20. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    Steve, Rick, and all...

    Thanks for all the good information.....sometimes the learning is almost as much fun as the buying.

    Jack

    "Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Rick Steele says...
    > >
    > >
    > >"Steve Christensen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >[snip]
    > >>
    > >> We are very pleased with ours. My biggest gripe has been that RANS
    > >changed the
    > >> location of the seat pan when they went to the RAD loc system, and I
    had
    > >to add
    > >> a lumbar cushion to keep from having my tailbone bottom out on the seat
    > >rim.
    > >> That, and the fact that I didn't like their new "open cockpit"
    handlebar
    > >set up,
    > >> as with it I couldn't recline the seat very much and still reach the
    bars.
    > >So
    > >> on my 2003 I fitted the old style bars, which allows me to fully
    recline
    > >the
    > >> seat to avoid recumbent butt.
    > >[snip]
    > >
    > >I was dissapointed that the 2003 V2's were coming in with the new 0036 handle bar instead of the
    > >double bend wide 0037 that's stock on the
    Formula.
    > >Most of the V2's we sell leave our shop with the wider more extended bar
    > >(0037) that improves reach. It allows most folks to fully recline where
    as
    > >the supplied bar doesn't! I've pushed on RANS to supply 04 V2's with the 0037 bar, but I don't
    > >think it's going to happen. The 04 Stratus models
    are
    > >coming in with the 0037 bar..
    > >
    > >Regards Rick Steele Gold Country Cyclery Cameron Park, CA
    >
    >
    > That's a great point. The double wide double bend 37 is the bar I went
    with
    > myself. That bar, mounted on the older 2002 riser and top loaded stem, is
    a
    > really great combination on the V2. It's not an open cockpit, but it
    allows
    > full recline, and offers a very relaxed and natural hand position.
    >
    > Steve Christensen
     
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