well vino,kash.and kloden have all been good time-trialists in the past, at least kloden dopes on equal amounts, because he never has a super day or a terrible day, but i suspect that vino and kash had a few extra "drinks" last night.Wayne666 said:
Rasmussen accusations to 2002: "Biopure"
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Its a good thing that athletes of other sports don't get the scrutiny of cyclist. I don't think we wood have MLB, NBA, NFL or any other major sport.
Could we stop destroying this sport.
If a man tests positive, sanction him. If not, shut up.
Even if you accept everything in the report, what does that have to do with the 2007 Tour?
Rasmussen has riden and won stages since 2005, never tested positive. That is a proven fact. This report is unproven accusations, and if proven only demonstrates that the man contemplated doping in 2002.
I am still a fan. I will still watch. I love the tour. I love the sport.
Could we stop destroying this sport.
If a man tests positive, sanction him. If not, shut up.
Even if you accept everything in the report, what does that have to do with the 2007 Tour?
Rasmussen has riden and won stages since 2005, never tested positive. That is a proven fact. This report is unproven accusations, and if proven only demonstrates that the man contemplated doping in 2002.
I am still a fan. I will still watch. I love the tour. I love the sport.
I think Astana is old school. They're probably topping off with a couple 100ml as I'm writing this.redLantern said:
Then again, I strongly suspect Caisse is too and Valverde was simply awful today. He's either on the verge of getting sick or they tried something funny today that didn't work out. He was right there with Vino and Kash in the final TT of the Vuelta last year, look good enough in the Alps, and then loses that kind of time? Somethin' ain't right.
What? I hope you are not serious that you need DNA.redLantern said:
First, this isn't a criminal trial. "Innocent until proven guilty" does not apply. All we are talking about is whether a) we believe Rasmussen; b) whether he should be thrown out of the Tour; and c) whether he should be suspended. I think the evidence is suffiecint to conslude Rasmussen did it and he should be immediately suspended pending a futher investigation and hearing.
Second, you are watching too much CSI if you think DNA is required to establish guilt. Where would the CSI investigators get their DNA sample to prove Rasmussens's link to the Hemopure? The shoebox? The Sidi shoes that were supposed to be in the box? No. There is no DNA evidence for this type of accusation.
Its simply whether you believe this guy or you believe the Chicken. You can believe the Chicken. I don't. This story seems very credible to me. There is no evidence this guy was paid by Velonews or by Walsh. In fact, it seems as if he was reluctant in coming forward. Who cares about the timing if the facts hold up? From my perspective, Chicken's response to the accusation was bizarre. After being confronted with the accusations he said "the name is familiar but I cannot confirm the story" (or something to that effect). If it was me, I would say "Hey what is this guy saying about me? That is totally false." His response leads me to believe that it is true. Plus, the Chicken keeps skipping out on dope tests.
At least he put to rest the rumor that he was one of the "Men in Black." He really trains in a dark navy blue jersey (Ok, I made the dark navy blue part up. He just said he wears blue. It could be powder blue or midnight blue).
Finally, you guys have to lay off Pacman Jones. He just happens to be in the wrong strip clubs at the wrong time. He is really a good Christian.
There is not enough evidences to push out Rasmussen of TDF, but to miss 4 4 testing it's very suspect especialy before TDF. I want hear him saying what was the strong reason to fly to Mexico just before a GT when we know how tired people are after a such travel (7 hours of daylight times), and how it's to be in good form before a GT.
In this case Rabobank's management is faulty, they would have not let him race after a such case. How could they be so stupid?
After that cyling is going to be in disarray, and a lot of teams should disappear, and a lot of unemployed riders, mechanics, ... should arrive.
In this case Rabobank's management is faulty, they would have not let him race after a such case. How could they be so stupid?
After that cyling is going to be in disarray, and a lot of teams should disappear, and a lot of unemployed riders, mechanics, ... should arrive.
Of course this is not evidence dont be so stupid.. There is hard evidence that Ras missed out on 4 checks since his exact whereabouts were unknown. Thats on the record..thats evidence. If it is a big problem or not i dont know but at least its proven.Frigo's Luggage said:
But some mr unknown coming up with a story about what supposedly happened 5 years ago is not.. Wanting the chicken to be excluded from the 2007 TDF on the basis of some totally unproven story of what alledgedly happened in 2002 is downright rediculous, if the tour did that then you would get claims like this every year about whoever is topping the GC.
If its true or not I dont know but its definately not evidence. And as for some Phd backing his story up.. well.. i can honestly say i know plenty of pretty retarded Phd's and Msc's and thats just within my own family/old classmates. It means nothing and it doesnt add any credibility to this story as far as I am concerned.
I cant judge wether its true or not. neither can you.. Sure.. it sounds credible.. sure it might be true.. But on the other hand would you throw the stuff right down the toilet without even knowing for sure what it was? (no evidence left i threw it down the toilet..) Would you also choose to not involve the cops, and keep ur anonimity for 5 years only to come forward when you know it ll get maximum media exposure? Would there be huge lables marking "biopure' on the containers if the stuff is that illegal? and would you ( as the doper) even dare to ask a semifriend to bring you a pair of shoes and then fill up the box with dope? The odds that the semi friend will check the box are what? 50+ %? chances that he has to show the stuff at customs are ~30 %? (must look weird on the scan). apart from the fact that u d have to be a pretty cruel ******* to do that to your friend in the frst place you d also have to be a pretty dumb cruel ******* i d say..
And yet we all believe it immediately. Must be true.. he has nothing to gain does he?
well. you dont know. for all we know he is sleeping under a bridge drinking moonshine in every day life with his flipped out Phd friend to keep him company.
and then again.. maybe not.. But comon. we're cycling here. focus on whats important. If a rider gets tested positive he gets excluded. and for the rest all the stories, gossip and slander should stay out.
cheers
I think the key with dealing with guys like Ras is strong team management. Unfortunately he (Ras) probably knows he is valuable in terms of ROI for sponsors. He gets to do whatever he wants? (I wouldnt know).
The conversation should IMO gone a little like this (regardless of how commerically valuable he is to teams ROI), "Well Ras we noticed you missed 4 dope controls/disclosures recently. You know its been great. But.....get the **** off our team. Now. We would rather give a start to a young kid like Walker. Goodbye."
The conversation should IMO gone a little like this (regardless of how commerically valuable he is to teams ROI), "Well Ras we noticed you missed 4 dope controls/disclosures recently. You know its been great. But.....get the **** off our team. Now. We would rather give a start to a young kid like Walker. Goodbye."
David Walsh on his interview with Whitney Richards
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/article2116022.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/tour_de_france/article2116022.ece
Thanks for calling me stupid. It was appreciated.
If I'm so stupid and you are so smart, how do you define "evidence"? Because this sure seems like evidence to me.
If I'm so stupid and you are so smart, how do you define "evidence"? Because this sure seems like evidence to me.
Trajectum said:
If you ignore the evidence, there is none.
The 2007 Tour has beautiful scenery.
That the chief European benefit---Tourism.
The 2007 Tour has beautiful scenery.
That the chief European benefit---Tourism.
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