Rasmussen admits lying but says Rabobank was in on it

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by donrhummy, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. thunder

    thunder New Member

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    expert in?

    I am an expert in understanding the culture.

    Puerto, T-Mobile, Disco, CSC, ONCE/Liberty, Astana...

    all have had internal systematic doping programs.

    Menchov and Dekker were involved in Puerto. There blood will be in the storage system of the Guarda Civil.

    To believe Rass, who was with Mancebo, Valverde, and Armstrong, as the last 4 on the first HC mtn top finish in 2005, was not manipulating his blood, is just stupidity.

    You have 3 riders, who were, Armstrong, Paco, and Valv Piti, aka the Green Bullet. They were all blood doping. Rass? He was clean, ofcourse he was.

    You fool.

    Now fuck off with your apologia onto Dailypeloton where they will welcome you with open arms.
     


  2. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    He is positive for lying to the doping authorities about where he was so that he could not be tested out of competition. What's your explanation for that?
     
  3. No_Positives

    No_Positives New Member

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    I agree. Thunder the blunder is a dipshit. According to thunder, if a rider tests positive for doping, then he's guilty. If a rider does not test positive for doping, then he covered it up. Then what's the point of testing?
     
  4. thunder

    thunder New Member

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    you see, the "I know it when I see it" paradigm goes agianst natural justice, thus, I have used all the peripheral and circumstantial evidence to come to an opinion about doping.

    I do not enforce sanctions. I think for myself, and do not let sanctions or not dictate my opinions.
     
  5. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    It is no use arguing with No Positives (AKA bobke/hombre). He's still suffering from the humiliation of not being able to see the clear signs that Armstrong was doping. He tries to make up for it by accusing other rider of doping on DP.
     
  6. tomdavis80

    tomdavis80 New Member

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    When I look at the numbers, for this year's TdF, they are at an all time high during the last TdF test. Honestly, he was probably doped to the GILLS. And I also would like to see more of these records and tables out there on the big favorite riders so we know what kind of patterns to look at.
     
  7. thunder

    thunder New Member

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    I think we should see reticulytes also...

    but Rass was getting a blood transfusions imo. He was too strong to be clean. Rabo are too dirty for him to be clean.
     
  8. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    Rasmussen would not release information that would hurt his case. What about internal Rabobank blood tests? We also know that starting with this year's Giro the UCI began testing blood at times other than the early morning before stages. They must suspect that riders are doing something after the usual testing time and before the start of stages. Since the UCI is always slow on the trigger, we can also assume that whatever prompted them to change the testing procedure has been going on for a long time. Ras' blood values may be fairly worthless.
     
  9. alvynmcq

    alvynmcq New Member

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    The reason for the new testing times is that some teams were having transfusions after the early morning tests (see Vino having his transfusion in the morning before the TT), so they would just pop in have the test with a crit of 45, 46, 47, 48, 49 or below and then slope off and get a transfusion before going to the finish line (from the info I have read they have plenty of time to do this before the start of the stage). For every unit of packed red blood cells they get a 3 point crit increase, so if your at 49 and you jack 2 units of red cells you are up to a 55 crit. After the race if they insist on testing you then you just tell them you are dehydrated and you need an IV, pop in the saline, for every litre of saline your crit drops by 3 points so 2 litres of saline and your back down.

    I would imagine Ras was jacked right up for the big stages this year. Just like the Disco boys. Look at the day when he was 43.9, 2 units of red cells and he is as close to 50 as you can get without getting busted.

    Another thing is Rasmussens weight, he weighs 130lbs so if his crit was 50-55 his VO2 max would be very very high. I saw an example of a swimmer whos crit was around 52-55% and his VO2 max was 75 but he weighed 180lbs, so we can imagine what the chickens would have been like in similar circumstances.
     
  10. lucybears

    lucybears New Member

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    Latest Cycling News for November 9, 2007
    Edited by Hedwig Kröner



    Reactions to Rasmussen's side of the story

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/nov07/nov09news2

    Blood values suspicious according to CSC's Damsgaard

    The Danish newspaper B.T. showed the blood profiles which Michael Rasmussen published yesterday at his press conference in Hellerup to doping expert Rasmus Damsgaard. He is the man in charge of CSC's antidoping programme.

    In his opinion, the blood values are suspicious. During the Tour de France, Rasmussen's haemoglobin values rose, which, according to Damsgaard, is unusual: "The haemoglobin values of the seven CSC riders [taking part in the Tour de France] dropped by 12 to 22 percent, which is completely normal. That the opposite happens, that the values rise during a hard race like the Tour de France, indicates that there has been a blood transfusion.
     
  11. Wayne666

    Wayne666 New Member

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    This is not borne out by that study I found. For the majority of riders it was true, but for a significant percentage (I'd have to go back and figure it out to be precise) their values must not have declined unless the data was not normally distributed and in fact were incredibly skewed.

    Unless of course the riders were doping with something from the late 70s to mid-80s that had a positive effect on their hct and hemoglobin.
     
  12. stilesiii

    stilesiii New Member

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    Thunder, I do not deny that dopers intend to subvert the protocols. That is obvious. However, you cannot sanction an individual because YOU are anybody else says so. Due process requires proof. That proof is violations of testing protocols. We don't take a persons right to feed his family because you're convinced he's a doper.

    If Rasmussen violated the protocols than sanction him. His team yanked him under tremendous pressure from the ASO. Now we know why, they knew he was reporting false information and went along and the Tour organizers probably knew this at the time. When it came to the nut cutting, they cut his to save their's. Both should be sanctioned appropriately. However, that does not change the fact that the man did not test positive and has not been proven to be a doper. He's been proven to be a liar about where he was training.

    You cannot have a sport if speculation, rumor and innuendo are enough to prove guilt. I can tell you, if I were a kid with a future in cycling, i would persue another job. If you rise to the top and become a target of the media, the Tour, or any other entity, you're screwed. You are required to prove a negative. That is a logically impossible!!!

    There is no doubt that if Rasmussen was not wearing the yellow jersey, he would have finished to Tour and we would not be having this discussion. IMO that is the problem. Where is the due process?

    If a guy gets caught, lifetime ban. I don't have a problem with that. But there has to be a process. Right now, the process is not right.
     
  13. alvynmcq

    alvynmcq New Member

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    He tested positive for DynEPO use didnt he?
     
  14. donrhummy

    donrhummy New Member

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    no, it was a "non-negative" result which simply means they can't prove it was DynEPO but they really, strongly believe the results indicate that he was even though no accepted science agrees.
     
  15. donrhummy

    donrhummy New Member

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    Agreed. Unfortunately, that IS the state of pro cycling today. Riders are suspended and kept out of races despite a lack of evidence to prove their guilt. And it's not just the riders in OP either. Look at Iban mayo whose career is probably destroyed and he was held out of races and his salary suspended yet his B result did not confirm his A result, so what do they (UCI) do? They lament the fact that they "just couldn't get the sample to confirm the Paris result," and as a result order the Paris lab to reconfirm their own results. How is this organization allowed to conitnue like this?! I don't understand why Floyd is going to CAS. He should join with Mayo and go to a real court and sue them. I'll bet Lance would put up some money.
     
  16. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    Which makes the blood values taken during races worthless for showing that he was not doping. Ras's release of the data is just spin control. He knows that it is worthless.
     
  17. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    No, it means they were using a test for Dynepo that has not yet been certified for use. The normal EPO test does not detect Dynepo, which is why riders like Rasmussen are using it.
     
  18. poulidor

    poulidor New Member

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    We as spectators or telespectators are feeding indirectly riders that is enough grounds to keep a rider out of race if he is tarnishing races and us by dubious excuses, by lies and by cheating. Basso, Rasmussen, Landis as many others are in that case. They can't fooled us more, too much is too much. Since last year riders were aware that there is a big switch about doping, but some of them (and their teams) stayed childish and able to destroy their and our sport and their incomes.
     
  19. ilpirata

    ilpirata New Member

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    I am in full agreement with you!. Pulling the rug out from Rasmussen when he was in yellow, was scandalous and damaging to the tour, to cycling, cyclinst rights, and obviously to Rasmussen. Stop him in the beginning or don't stop him at all (unless he has a positive for a doping control).



     
  20. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    Allowing Rasmussen to win would have been worse--although with Cantadope winning instead that might be arguable. Ras could not be pulled before the Tour because his lying to the UCI did not come to light until after the start.

    This has nothing to do with the bogus issue of cyclists rights. Ras deliberately lied to the UCI in order to avoid the out of competition testing program. He broke the rules and he admitted it yesterday.
     
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