Re: 3 climbers die

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by W. D. Grey, Mar 10, 2006.

  1. W. D. Grey

    W. D. Grey Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, The Reid
    <[email protected]> writes
    >Following up to W. D. Grey
    >
    >>>and hence more PC than a name we made up.

    >>
    >>Named after Sir George Everest born in the Manor of Gwernvale near
    >>Crickhowell in Powys.

    >
    >Yes, I know, it isn't the point that "Everest" doesn't relate to
    >anything, rather that we imposed it on a hill already named.
    >That's why its not considered PC.


    That's your opinion. AFAIC - PC is a dead loss anyway - it has caused
    more problems than it's solved.
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk
     
    Tags:


  2. The Reid

    The Reid Guest

    Following up to W. D. Grey

    >>>Named after Sir George Everest born in the Manor of Gwernvale near
    >>>Crickhowell in Powys.

    >>
    >>Yes, I know, it isn't the point that "Everest" doesn't relate to
    >>anything, rather that we imposed it on a hill already named.
    >>That's why its not considered PC.

    >
    >That's your opinion.


    its not particularly my opinion. Its more an opinion.

    >AFAIC - PC is a dead loss anyway - it has caused
    >more problems than it's solved.


    That may well be.
    But what problems would naming Everest by its real local name
    cause, other than having one for each side of the mountain, as in
    Mt Blanc? Which we dont even call Mount White, let alone rename
    it after the first Englishmen who went there?
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
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  3. John Smith

    John Smith Guest

    "The Reid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Following up to W. D. Grey
    >
    >>>>Named after Sir George Everest born in the Manor of Gwernvale near
    >>>>Crickhowell in Powys.
    >>>
    >>>Yes, I know, it isn't the point that "Everest" doesn't relate to
    >>>anything, rather that we imposed it on a hill already named.
    >>>That's why its not considered PC.

    >>
    >>That's your opinion.

    >
    > its not particularly my opinion. Its more an opinion.
    >
    >>AFAIC - PC is a dead loss anyway - it has caused
    >>more problems than it's solved.

    >
    > That may well be.
    > But what problems would naming Everest by its real local name
    > cause, other than having one for each side of the mountain, as in
    > Mt Blanc? Which we dont even call Mount White, let alone rename
    > it after the first Englishmen who went there?


    Everest! Why not call it by another! Once known as Peak 15 :-0

    JS
     
  4. W. D. Grey

    W. D. Grey Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, The Reid
    <[email protected]> writes
    >That may well be.
    >But what problems would naming Everest by its real local name
    >cause, other than having one for each side of the mountain, as in
    >Mt Blanc? Which we dont even call Mount White, let alone rename
    >it after the first Englishmen who went there?
    >--


    No one is forced to call it Everest, the fact is - it is a tribute to a
    great British surveyor who was relentless in his pursuit of accuracy.

    You call it what you like, I prefer Everest.

    I also prefer Y Cludeiriau in preference to the Glyders.
    let's sort our own patch out before worrying about Nepal.

    You talk of PC - bollocks.
    --
    Bill Grey
    http://www.billboy.co.uk
     
  5. Boo

    Boo Guest


    > But what problems would naming Everest by its real local name
    > cause,


    But what problems are caused by calling it Everest anyway ?

    --
    Boo
     
  6. John Smith

    John Smith Guest

    "Boo" <[email protected]_me_no_spam.net> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >> But what problems would naming Everest by its real local name
    >> cause,

    >
    > But what problems are caused by calling it Everest anyway ?


    See thread ;-) According to someone it's not Politically Correct! Can't see
    why ;-)

    JS
     
  7. The Reid

    The Reid Guest

    Following up to Boo

    >But what problems are caused by calling it Everest anyway ?


    If you had lived near Scafell Pike l and one day some Americans
    turned up and called it Mount McDonald, published maps with that
    name and put out a Hollywood film using the name so foreigners
    used thier name, you would just say thats fine, would you?
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
     
  8. John Smith

    John Smith Guest

    "The Reid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Following up to Boo
    >
    >>But what problems are caused by calling it Everest anyway ?

    >
    > If you had lived near Scafell Pike l and one day some Americans
    > turned up and called it Mount McDonald, published maps with that
    > name and put out a Hollywood film using the name so foreigners
    > used thier name, you would just say thats fine, would you?


    Get real! I'd suggest that names that appear on original mappings should be
    kept. And that includes Everest.

    Pc has nothing to do with it except in your blinkered mind.

    BTW What has this to do with 3 people dying? Nothing.

    Bye
     
  9. Roger

    Roger Guest

    The message <[email protected]>
    from "John Smith" <[email protected]> contains these words:

    > >> But what problems would naming Everest by its real local name
    > >> cause,

    > >
    > > But what problems are caused by calling it Everest anyway ?


    > See thread ;-) According to someone it's not Politically Correct! Can't see
    > why ;-)


    I think we are back to someone not understanding it was odd to abandon
    the colonial name for a North American peak but not the colonial name
    for a Himalayan peak when the PC name used for the former was a good
    deal more obscure than the PC name ignored for the later.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year nothing new.
     
  10. Boo

    Boo Guest

    The Reid wrote:
    > Following up to Boo
    >
    >> But what problems are caused by calling it Everest anyway ?

    >
    > If you had lived near Scafell Pike l and one day some Americans
    > turned up and called it Mount McDonald, published maps with that
    > name and put out a Hollywood film using the name so foreigners
    > used thier name, you would just say thats fine, would you?


    I don't see why I'd care less ? Bruges is called Brussels in the UK, Koln
    Cologne etc etc etc, since the year dot. Afaik no-one g'saf ? I don't mind the
    French calling Scotland Escosse or London Londres. So what ? Who cares ?

    I am not trying to be contentious here (truly :), but I just don't see any
    reason why a place name should be taken from the language spoken in that country
    any more than a spoon that happens to be made in France but sold in the UK
    should be called a cuillère ?

    --
    Boo
     
  11. Roger

    Roger Guest

    The message <[email protected]>
    from Boo <[email protected]_me_no_spam.net> contains these words:

    > I don't see why I'd care less ? Bruges is called Brussels in the UK, Koln
    > Cologne etc etc etc, since the year dot. Afaik no-one g'saf ? I
    > don't mind the
    > French calling Scotland Escosse or London Londres. So what ? Who cares ?


    The Chinese apparently are mortally offended if anyone dares to call
    Peking Peking and the Indians seem to be going the same way with Bombay.

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year nothing new.
     
  12. In article <[email protected]spam.zetnet.co.uk>, Roger
    <[email protected]> writes
    >the Indians seem to be going the same way with Bombay.


    I heard a piece on Radio 4 a couple of months back were they were in
    Bombay and everybody (locals) was calling it Bombay - except for the
    British BBC man!

    --

    Dominic Sexton
     
  13. The Reid

    The Reid Guest

    Following up to W. D. Grey

    >No one is forced to call it Everest, the fact is - it is a tribute to a
    >great British surveyor who was relentless in his pursuit of accuracy.


    If the locals conferred the honour, I would have no misgivings.
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
     
  14. The Reid

    The Reid Guest

    Following up to Boo

    >Bruges is called Brussels in the UK


    Is Everest an Anglicisation of Chomalungma?
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
     
  15. The Reid

    The Reid Guest

    Following up to John Smith

    >Pc has nothing to do with it except in your blinkered mind.


    its not me who cant discuss it without being abusive, so I
    suspect you are the one with a blinkered mind.
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
     
  16. Boo

    Boo Guest

    >> Bruges is called Brussels in the UK
    >
    > Is Everest an Anglicisation of Chomalungma?


    Well that's a fair point, but I still don't see what difference it makes what a
    place is called on "foreign" maps (for whatever definition of foreign suits the
    case ;-) ? It wouldn't bother me to hear that eg the Danes know places in the
    UK by completely different names from us owing to their seafaring history. I
    still don't understand why it's considered wrong to have a place named different
    things in different languages any more than that they should have different
    words in the first place ?

    --
    Boo
     
  17. The Reid

    The Reid Guest

    Following up to Boo

    >> Is Everest an Anglicisation of Chomalungma?

    >
    >Well that's a fair point, but I still don't see what difference it makes what a
    >place is called on "foreign" maps (for whatever definition of foreign suits the
    >case ;-) ?


    I don't know what all other countries do, do they use
    Tibetan/Nepalese names for Everest, or Everest derivatives?
    It seems to me a fair case that its rather disrespectful to
    ignore an existing name and make a new one up, that's how I
    interpret the PC point of view. Basically it smacks of "you're
    only dusky foreigners, you're naming doesn't really count, we are
    the first Europeans here, so *we* choose the name. I assume
    that's why McKinley has gone back to Denali.

    >It wouldn't bother me to hear that eg the Danes know places in the
    >UK by completely different names from us owing to their seafaring history. I
    >still don't understand why it's considered wrong to have a place named different
    >things in different languages any more than that they should have different
    >words in the first place ?


    Its common to have Anglicised or whateverfied names for important
    places, although it seems to be diminishing as the world becomes
    a smaller place. (Makes sense if you cant pronounce the word).

    Its more unusual to go along to someone elses country and name
    things with a completely different name from the one they already
    have. I expect the Danes etc named a lot of places in UK when
    they were raping (when they probably didnt even ask the young
    ladies name?) and pillaging, some stuck though, like Sutherland
    and Blencathra, I assume some didnt, hence different Danish name?
    Its the way empires and colonisers behave isn't it? Either you
    don't care what the locals call it as you intend to kill or
    enslave them anyway, or in this instance, just a little arrogant?
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
     
  18. John Smith

    John Smith Guest

    "The Reid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Following up to John Smith
    >
    >>Pc has nothing to do with it except in your blinkered mind.

    >
    > its not me who cant discuss it without being abusive, so I
    > suspect you are the one with a blinkered mind.


    Abusive! You've heard nothing yet! It's you who has hijacked a thread with
    no other reason than to be controversial.

    JS
     
  19. The Reid

    The Reid Guest

    Following up to John Smith

    >> its not me who cant discuss it without being abusive, so I
    >> suspect you are the one with a blinkered mind.

    >
    >Abusive! You've heard nothing yet! It's you who has hijacked a thread with
    >no other reason than to be controversial.


    By "controversial" I assume you mean having the temerity to
    contemplate points of view different from yours. Why not put
    forward logical arguments pro the use of "Everest" rather than
    tell me I have a "blinkered mind" for discussing the merits of
    the three names.

    As for "highjacking", heres the first comments about the names:-

    "> Asia : Everest, 8850m

    I thought the PC name for Everest was Chomolungma.
    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year nothing new

    Why? Chomolunga was/ is the local Tibetan name. Everest was used
    on the first mapping.

    JS"

    (It seems the current spellings seem to be Sagarmatha and
    Qomolangma)
    --
    Mike Reid
    Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email [email protected] this site
    Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- [email protected] all, it's a spamtrap
     
  20. Roger

    Roger Guest

    The message <[email protected]>
    from The Reid <[email protected]> contains these words:

    < Chomolungma>

    > (It seems the current spellings seem to be Sagarmatha and
    > Qomolangma)


    I wasn't sure of the spelling so I dipped into 'The Ascent of Everest'.
    If it was good enough for John Hunt it was good enough for me. Curiously
    in chapter one of the above book he refers to "their mountain group of
    Chomolungma". (The 'their referring to the Tibetans).

    --
    Roger Chapman so far this year nothing new except a
    knackered knee.
     
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