Re: 3 climbers die



Chris Gilbert wrote:

>> It's pointless change.
>
> By the same token so was the change to Everest.

Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
name at the time, did they? It was just one of many unnamed (or unknown)
peaks.

Paul
 
In message <[email protected]>, Paul Saunders
<[email protected]> writes
>Chris Gilbert wrote:
>
>>> It's pointless change.
>>
>> By the same token so was the change to Everest.
>
>Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
>name at the time, did they? It was just one of many unnamed (or unknown)
>peaks.
>
>Paul
>
>
Unnamed or unknown by who?

--
Martin Richardson
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Martin Richardson wrote:

>> Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know
>> the local name at the time, did they? It was just one of many
>> unnamed (or unknown) peaks.

> Unnamed or unknown by who?

By the people who didn't know the names. That's why they gave it a new one.

"What's that peak called?"
"Which one?"
"The one at the top"
"I don't know"
"Let's call it the Top Peak then"

And that's how Cadair Arthur came to be renamed as Pen y Fan.

Paul
 
In article <[email protected]>, Paul Saunders
<[email protected]> writes
>Chris Gilbert wrote:
>
>>> It's pointless change.
>>
>> By the same token so was the change to Everest.
>
>Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
>name at the time, did they?

No, they hadn't been anywhere near it (170km) so it was a bit tricky to
know the local name!

--

Dominic Sexton
 
Following up to Boo

>> Beijing because nearer to Chinese?
>> Turkish take over
>> End of communism
>> Everest, end of colonialism
>
>I meant why should _I_ call those places by new names ?

you shouldn't, keep with the originals.
--
Mike Reid
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Following up to Paul Saunders

>> I'm quite happy to visit Yr Wyddfaonia national park.
>
>No need, you can go to Eryri instead.

I know. How does that fit together? I mean its obvious why
Snowdonia, why Eryri?
--
Mike Reid
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Following up to Paul Saunders

<lots of interesting stuff snipped>

> A good
>example of how Welsh and English are getting mixed up together!

Perhaps not a bad thing. I think the way forward for European
languages is that as we gradually become more familiar we can
borrow more and more words, slip from language to language as
best suited and have a rich euro language that understands all
its cultural riches, either that or we all end up speaking
American and saying "gee" and "howareyall" all the time.

>Surely using the correct Welsh pluralisations only makes sense if you are
>actually talking about them in Welsh?

Yes, like pizzas

>Looking at the other side of the coin, there are many English places that
>have Welsh names. England is Lloegr, Scotland is Yr Alban, London is
>Llundain. Surely this isn't PC? ;-)

Smiley ignored, London is fine, its just celticisation (?) Alba
Scotland is well understood, not sure about England, where did
that come from? Is it the name of a Welsh surveyor who made a map
of England :)
--
Mike Reid
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Following up to Boo

>Don't agree with this at all. The Welsh names are completely unintelligible and
>unpronounceable to the average Englishman and, like the names on maps of
>Scotland,

It took me very little time to get a broad feel for pronouncing
Scottish and Welsh hill names, no doubt I don't get it quite
right, but its all part of the fun. Should the rest of Europe
rename all its places so as to be convenient to English speakers?
--
Mike Reid
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Following up to Paul Saunders

>> By the same token so was the change to Everest.
>
>Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
>name at the time, did they? It was just one of many unnamed (or unknown)
>peaks.

Was it? Like K1 K2. If it was me, I'd have changed back when I
found out.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
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Following up to Paul Saunders

>Fact is, most Welsh hill names are really plain and boring. You have to
>keep them in Welsh to maintain their air of mystery and exotic ethnic
>quality!

Yes :) Probably applies to ALL names. I like pen y helgi dhu
(sp?) though.
--
Mike Reid
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Following up to Paul Saunders

>> In that case its "coca".
>
>???

Spanish version of pizza

<interesting answer snipped>
--
Mike Reid
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> It took me very little time to get a broad feel for pronouncing
> Scottish and Welsh hill names, no doubt I don't get it quite
> right, but its all part of the fun. Should the rest of Europe
> rename all its places so as to be convenient to English speakers?

Well if they want to sell maps to English people then it would be a help. Of
course no-one else need know anything about it.

--
Boo
 

>>> By the same token so was the change to Everest.
>> Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
>> name at the time, did they? It was just one of many unnamed (or unknown)
>> peaks.
>
> Was it? Like K1 K2. If it was me, I'd have changed back when I
> found out.

But what a pointless change that would have been !

--
Boo
 
Following up to Paul Saunders

>By the people who didn't know the names. That's why they gave it a new one.
>
>"What's that peak called?"
>"Which one?"

probably a explorer myth but I heard that when they first saw a
llama in S America it went like this:-

What's that?
llamas? (Spanish for "name", shorthand for "you mean, what's its
called?")
Ok, its a "Llama" then. Write that down.
Er, Senor............

I'll get my chaqueta.
--
Mike Reid
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Following up to Dominic Sexton

>>Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
>>name at the time, did they?
>
>No, they hadn't been anywhere near it (170km) so it was a bit tricky to
>know the local name!

The other hills seem to have local sounding names mostly.
They would have had guides.
How come they found the names for the others but not the highest,
or did they just name Everest?
--
Mike Reid
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The Reid wrote:

>> No, they hadn't been anywhere near it (170km) so it was a bit tricky
>> to know the local name!
>
> The other hills seem to have local sounding names mostly.
> They would have had guides.
> How come they found the names for the others but not the highest,
> or did they just name Everest?

Yes, I think they just named Everest initially. They were surveyed from a
distance. They measured a phenomenally accurate baseline in India and
triangulated them all, without going anywhere near them. It took them some
time to figure out which one was the highest, probably had to take the
curvature of the earth into account. The original measurement was amazingly
close to the latest hyper-accurate measurement.

Paul
 
Following up to Boo

>> Was it? Like K1 K2. If it was me, I'd have changed back when I
>> found out.
>
>But what a pointless change that would have been !

only pointless if all the points made by people here in other
posts are of no consequence to you.
--
Mike Reid
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Following up to Boo

>> It took me very little time to get a broad feel for pronouncing
>> Scottish and Welsh hill names, no doubt I don't get it quite
>> right, but its all part of the fun. Should the rest of Europe
>> rename all its places so as to be convenient to English speakers?
>
>Well if they want to sell maps to English people then it would be a help. Of
>course no-one else need know anything about it.

English maps often say Florence for Firenze, Venice for Venezia
etc etc, you wont find it a help, you will find it a hindrance,
because, in Italy, they perversely signpost the real names.
--
Mike Reid
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The Reid wrote:
> Following up to Paul Saunders
>
>>> By the same token so was the change to Everest.
>> Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
>> name at the time, did they? It was just one of many unnamed (or unknown)
>> peaks.
>
> Was it? Like K1 K2. If it was me, I'd have changed back when I
> found out.

Depends on the perspective of "unknown". I always marvel when I see
that "Victoria Falls" were "discovered" by Livingstone. You can imagine
the locals being amazed to find out what that roaring sound they'd been
wondering about around the corner for all those years actually /was/... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
In article <[email protected]>, The Reid
<[email protected]> writes
>Following up to Dominic Sexton
>
>>>Not really. When it was named Everest, they didn't actually know the local
>>>name at the time, did they?
>>
>>No, they hadn't been anywhere near it (170km) so it was a bit tricky to
>>know the local name!
>
>The other hills seem to have local sounding names mostly.
>They would have had guides.

Yes but it wasn't until the 1920s that westerners went anywhere near the
hill IIRC.

>How come they found the names for the others but not the highest,
>or did they just name Everest?

I expect they just names the highest because it was special - before the
height was calculated it was known as Peak XV.

I expect the other local names were discovered and applied as they
became accessible.

--

Dominic Sexton
 
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