Re: ACE Hardware Intel (TOP SECRET)

[[email protected]]

On Dec 10, 12:49 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13780.0.htmlhttp://www.agencyforcyclingethics.com
>
> This is the latest intelligence report from Magilla 007...
>
> ACE gets 100% of its revenue from cycling teams. Therefore, it has a
> financial conflict of interest because a positive test might cause the
> team's sponsor to want to pull out of the sport. At the very least it
> would cause the sponsor to reconsier its financial involvement. But a
> negative test, on the other hand, would make a sponsor happy and keep
> the test money flowing.
>
> So ACE has a built-in financial conflict of interst to cover up positive
> test results and to instead make teams, sponsors, and riders look like
> angels. As of this date, I am aware of no athlete - ZERO - who has
> tested positive through ACE. No rider has been suspended by the UCI
> because of an ACE positive. And I bet this will continue until nuclear
> fusion stops on the sun, which covers at least through the London
> Olympics in 2012.

dumbass,

that site implies that the ACE is employed by sponsors to ensure that
the team it sponsors will not ne involved in a doping scandal.

so i imagine that if the ACE caught a doper it would intervene before
it became an official doping violation -- which is probably what
happened to hontchar.

but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

 

[Bob Schwartz]

[email protected] wrote:
> but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
> involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?

Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
survive) it's ongoing doping problems.

Doping has driven soccer to it's death bed.

Bob Schwartz

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
>> but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
>> involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?
>
> Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
> football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
> survive) it's ongoing doping problems.
>
> Doping has driven soccer to it's death bed.

Bob, you have to absolutely cease being observant and instead listen to the
world's experts here who don't ride bike.

 

[MagillaGorilla]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Dec 10, 12:49 pm, MagillaGorilla <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13780.0.htmlhttp://www.agencyforcyclingethics.com
>>
>>This is the latest intelligence report from Magilla 007...
>>
>>ACE gets 100% of its revenue from cycling teams. Therefore, it has a
>>financial conflict of interest because a positive test might cause the
>>team's sponsor to want to pull out of the sport. At the very least it
>>would cause the sponsor to reconsier its financial involvement. But a
>>negative test, on the other hand, would make a sponsor happy and keep
>>the test money flowing.
>>
>>So ACE has a built-in financial conflict of interst to cover up positive
>>test results and to instead make teams, sponsors, and riders look like
>>angels. As of this date, I am aware of no athlete - ZERO - who has
>>tested positive through ACE. No rider has been suspended by the UCI
>>because of an ACE positive. And I bet this will continue until nuclear
>>fusion stops on the sun, which covers at least through the London
>>Olympics in 2012.
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> that site implies that the ACE is employed by sponsors to ensure that
> the team it sponsors will not ne involved in a doping scandal.
>
> so i imagine that if the ACE caught a doper it would intervene before
> it became an official doping violation -- which is probably what
> happened to hontchar.
>
> but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
> involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?
>



This system has less protections than WADA should a rider contest the
findings of the lab. Apparently, Hontchar did not contest the finding.

So I don't understand the logic in the system whereby all these riders
contest the findings through a WADA-positive but somehow would be
expected to not do the same with an ACE Hardware positive (unless of
course a positive test would be covered up).

This ACE Hardware system has yet to be fully vetted in this respect.

All this ACE system thing does is keep the doping case out of any
official forum (read public forum) and denies due process to any rider
who signs with a team that has it. That's hardly something to get
excited about and is far WORSE than the current WADA system in terms of
due process.

So it's a PR buffer for sponsors - an ACE bandage of sorts.

And what will the public think when their favorite rider just suddenly
stops riding and gets a job delivering pizza? The reality is if a guy
like Lance ever tested positive unde the ACE System (although the
thought of Postal ever joing such a thing is hilarious to begin with),
the lab tech would be found floating face down in the river the next day.

Also, any rider fired through this ACE system will have their doping
positive considered confidential and will be free to get another job
with another team. If you are a good enough dope rider like DiLusional
or Basshole, numerous teams without ACE Bandage protection will offer
you a contract which we see time after time. Look no further than
Millar, Tylenol, Virenque. Pestachio, Zabel....these guys aren't
unemployable in the European peloton by any stretch.

So unless all the Pro Tour teams agree to have ACE Hardware protection,
all it's going to do is make Tom Danielson get 17th on GC in the Tour.
Instead of getting axed by doping cases, these sponsors and teams will
suffer a far worse fate: chronic losing.

I'll be you $5,000 Astana will NEVER EVER join the ACE Hardware system.
Why? Because they don't want 40% of their Tour team showing up on the
radar at the end of June.

The only teams that will subject themselves to this gay form of
self-policing are teams that don't matter in any race anyway.

Because when all is said and done, if you want to win the Tour, you
better go make a doctor's appointment with Schumi in March.


Magilla

 

[[email protected]]

On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
> > involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?
>
> Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
> football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
> survive) it's ongoing doping problems.
>

dumbass,

are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.

lister and magilla are right, the riders are so narcissistic they
don't even realize how arrogant they look to the (non protour semen
filled) members of the public.

what is vino trying to say when he says it's unfair the doping cops
are picking on cycling?

and what were the spanish pros trying to say when they decided to
stage a protest at the championships the week after operation puerto
went public ?

look at the podium of the '96 tour (riis, ullrich, virenque,
dufaux,...) you have a zero sum game, dopers are battling other
dopers, like gangs having a turf war and maybe sinkewitz screwed some
promising 19 yr old (who may or may not have been clean) out of a spot
on the mapei farm team on his way to a $700k contract, but for the
most part it doesn't have any effect on the rest of society.

 

[MagillaGorilla]

[email protected] wrote:

> On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>[email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
>>>involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?
>>
>>Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
>>football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
>>survive) it's ongoing doping problems.
>>
>
>
> dumbass,
>
> are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
> you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
> michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.
>
> lister and magilla are right, the riders are so narcissistic they
> don't even realize how arrogant they look to the (non protour semen
> filled) members of the public.
>
> what is vino trying to say when he says it's unfair the doping cops
> are picking on cycling?
>
> and what were the spanish pros trying to say when they decided to
> stage a protest at the championships the week after operation puerto
> went public ?
>
> look at the podium of the '96 tour (riis, ullrich, virenque,
> dufaux,...) you have a zero sum game, dopers are battling other
> dopers, like gangs having a turf war and maybe sinkewitz screwed some
> promising 19 yr old (who may or may not have been clean) out of a spot
> on the mapei farm team on his way to a $700k contract, but for the
> most part it doesn't have any effect on the rest of society.
>


That's an ALL-MADDEN TEAM post right there.

Magilla

 

[Bob Schwartz]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
>>> involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?
>> Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
>> football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
>> survive) it's ongoing doping problems.
>>
>
> dumbass,
>
> are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
> you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
> michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.

Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they
don't. The evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds
hit home runs. Michael Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans
care about their dogs.

Back in 2001 I was in the Alps before the Alpe d'Huez stage,
and there was this guy staying at our gite that was a BIG
LANCE ARMSTRONG FAN, and a CTS client. I casually mentioned
that someone that was working with the world's leader in
doping programs for cyclists was probably using his service
to implement a doping program. I still remember the look on
that guy's face when I said that. I didn't think it was
such a massive leap in logic, but this guy clearly did not
want to know about it.

That's why all the sports dealing with pressure to reduce
doping are feeling that pressure come from outside their
sports, from people that do not have an emotional
attachment to the athletes.

Bob Schwartz

 

[Donald Munro]

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they don't. The
> evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds hit home runs. Michael
> Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans care about their dogs.

And cyclists love their dogs (well OK Tugboat might not agree),
just look at all the cyclist whose dogs make it onto lists.

 

[Bob Schwartz]

[email protected] wrote:
> look it up and you will see bonds makes a fraction in endorsements
> compared to say jeter and that is why botero and fred rodriguez go
> from riding the tour to riding for diesel jeans next year.

Oh, I would never say doping is not a problem for the athlete.
It kills careers. But all sports are meat grinders for athletes,
who are replaceable. The sport is saying, "Barry who? Marion
who? Floyd who?" Their respective sports will just move merrily
along to the next wunderjock and flush baggage like Marion Jones
from their memory.

Doping is a problem for a sport when rooms at Alpe d'Huez are
empty. When the stadiums are empty. When the value of the TV
contract for the Olympics drops. The athletes are only so much
hamburger.

Bob Schwartz

 

[MagillaGorilla]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
>>>> involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?
>>>
>>> Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
>>> football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
>>> survive) it's ongoing doping problems.
>>>
>>
>> dumbass,
>>
>> are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
>> you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
>> michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.
>
>
> Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they
> don't. The evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds
> hit home runs. Michael Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans
> care about their dogs.
>
> Back in 2001 I was in the Alps before the Alpe d'Huez stage,
> and there was this guy staying at our gite that was a BIG
> LANCE ARMSTRONG FAN, and a CTS client. I casually mentioned
> that someone that was working with the world's leader in
> doping programs for cyclists was probably using his service
> to implement a doping program. I still remember the look on
> that guy's face when I said that. I didn't think it was
> such a massive leap in logic, but this guy clearly did not
> want to know about it.
>
> That's why all the sports dealing with pressure to reduce
> doping are feeling that pressure come from outside their
> sports, from people that do not have an emotional
> attachment to the athletes.
>
> Bob Schwartz


It's a bit more complex than that.

Fans of both athletes and celebrities alike are fair-weather friends not
to mention borderline stalker psychopaths. It only takes a minor shift
in the breeze to go from asking for that autograph to mailing a
pipebomb. And even then, these delusional fans fight the dope test
results tooth and nail until they've run out of rationalizations.

Once a rider is officially busted and runs out of appeals, most of these
superficial fans will take all their anger in their life and direct it
against their former hero. Even your run-of-the-mill psychopath stalker
fan loves to attend a good public hanging every now and then of a Floyd
or Vino or even a Rob Pilatus.

Easy come easy go.

Fab
Milli Vanilli

 

[MagillaGorilla]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Dec 11, 9:39 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> but the bigger question is why would a sponsor want to even be
>>>> involved in a sport where there was a need for a service like this ?
>>>
>>> Yeah, doping is killing baseball in the US. American
>>> football barely survived (and is continuing to barely
>>> survive) it's ongoing doping problems.
>>>
>>
>> dumbass,
>>
>> are you vino's PR manager ? that is some lame apologist stance - maybe
>> you should contact nike to tell them that they should take back
>> michael vick because hey at least he's not rae carruth.
>
>
> Apologize for what? I'm saying the fans don't care. And they
> don't. The evidence is in the stands watching Barry Bonds
> hit home runs. Michael Vick's biggest PR problem is that fans
> care about their dogs.
>
> Back in 2001 I was in the Alps before the Alpe d'Huez stage,
> and there was this guy staying at our gite that was a BIG
> LANCE ARMSTRONG FAN, and a CTS client. I casually mentioned
> that someone that was working with the world's leader in
> doping programs for cyclists was probably using his service
> to implement a doping program. I still remember the look on
> that guy's face when I said that. I didn't think it was
> such a massive leap in logic, but this guy clearly did not
> want to know about it.
>
> That's why all the sports dealing with pressure to reduce
> doping are feeling that pressure come from outside their
> sports, from people that do not have an emotional
> attachment to the athletes.
>
> Bob Schwartz


It's a bit more complex than that.

Fans of both athletes and celebrities alike are fair-weather friends not
to mention borderline stalker psychopaths. It only takes a minor shift
in the breeze to go from asking for that autograph to mailing a
pipebomb. And even then, these delusional fans fight the dope test
results tooth and nail until they've run out of rationalizations.

Once a rider is officially busted and runs out of appeals, most of these
superficial fans will take all their anger in their life and direct it
against their former hero. Even your run-of-the-mill psychopath stalker
fan loves to attend a good public hanging every now and then of a Floyd
or Vino or even a Rob Pilatus.

Easy come easy go.

Fab
Milli Vanilli