Re: Babies can be harmed by GM soy

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by DZ, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. DZ

    DZ Guest

    Ignoramus30282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    > http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article337253.ece

    [...]
    > She found that 36 per cent of the young of the rats fed the modified
    > soya were severely underweight, compared to 6 per cent of the
    > offspring of the other groups. More alarmingly, a staggering 55.6 per
    > cent of those born to mothers on the GM diet perished within three
    > weeks of birth, compared to 9 per cent of the offspring of those fed
    > normal soya, and 6.8 per cent of the young of those given no soya at
    > all.


    I found the table with the data from the experiment. The table is in
    Russian (http://www.pcr-rus.com/article.html). Although the sample
    sizes were moderate 44, 45, 33, the second column says that these
    three groups were the offspring of only 4 (no soy), 4 (GM soy), and 3
    (non-GM soy) rats (i.e. 11 rats split into 3 groups gave birth in
    total).

    Thus, these results are likely to be accounted for by the variation in
    maternal and genetic effects resulted from the very small pool of
    mothers. In population genetics, this is referred to as the effect of
    genetic drift. The smaller is the population of breeders, the larger
    are the deviations in various trait values in the offspring, due to
    the random sampling of breeders.

    I wouldn't get too excited about these results yet.
     
    Tags:


  2. On 10 Jan 2006 02:29:08 GMT, DZ <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Ignoramus30282 <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article337253.ece

    > [...]
    >> She found that 36 per cent of the young of the rats fed the modified
    >> soya were severely underweight, compared to 6 per cent of the
    >> offspring of the other groups. More alarmingly, a staggering 55.6 per
    >> cent of those born to mothers on the GM diet perished within three
    >> weeks of birth, compared to 9 per cent of the offspring of those fed
    >> normal soya, and 6.8 per cent of the young of those given no soya at
    >> all.

    >
    > I found the table with the data from the experiment. The table is in
    > Russian (http://www.pcr-rus.com/article.html). Although the sample
    > sizes were moderate 44, 45, 33, the second column says that these
    > three groups were the offspring of only 4 (no soy), 4 (GM soy), and 3
    > (non-GM soy) rats (i.e. 11 rats split into 3 groups gave birth in
    > total).
    >
    > Thus, these results are likely to be accounted for by the variation in
    > maternal and genetic effects resulted from the very small pool of
    > mothers. In population genetics, this is referred to as the effect of
    > genetic drift. The smaller is the population of breeders, the larger
    > are the deviations in various trait values in the offspring, due to
    > the random sampling of breeders.
    >
    > I wouldn't get too excited about these results yet.



    That's good to know, but differences were quite large as well. I
    woould like to see more research on this.

    i
     
  3. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    "Ignoramus30282" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > That's good to know, but differences were quite large as well. I
    > woould like to see more research on this.


    Of course. Me too. It's usually considered bad form to rush to judgment over
    a single study, especially very small ones like this. The results are not
    uncommonly found not to be reproducible.

    Thanks to DZ, by the way, for providing more study info.

    HG
     
  4. MMu

    MMu Guest

    "DZ" <[email protected]>the

    >data from the experiment. The table is in
    > Russian (http://www.pcr-rus.com/article.html). Although the sample
    > sizes were moderate 44, 45, 33, the second column says that these
    > three groups were the offspring of only 4 (no soy), 4 (GM soy), and 3
    > (non-GM soy) rats (i.e. 11 rats split into 3 groups gave birth in
    > total).
    >
    > Thus, these results are likely to be accounted for by the variation in
    > maternal and genetic effects resulted from the very small pool of
    > mothers. In population genetics, this is referred to as the effect of
    > genetic drift. The smaller is the population of breeders, the larger
    > are the deviations in various trait values in the offspring, due to
    > the random sampling of breeders.
    >
    > I wouldn't get too excited about these results yet.


    Actually I wouldn't get excited at all.. sample size of mothers is way too
    small to say anything.
    Thanks for posting the link.
     
  5. DZ

    DZ Guest

    Ignoramus30282 wrote:
    > DZ wrote:
    >> Ignoramus30282 wrote:
    >>> http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article337253.ece

    >> [...]
    >>> She found that 36 per cent of the young of the rats fed the modified
    >>> soya were severely underweight, compared to 6 per cent of the
    >>> offspring of the other groups. More alarmingly, a staggering 55.6 per
    >>> cent of those born to mothers on the GM diet perished within three
    >>> weeks of birth, compared to 9 per cent of the offspring of those fed
    >>> normal soya, and 6.8 per cent of the young of those given no soya at
    >>> all.

    >>
    >> I found the table with the data from the experiment. The table is in
    >> Russian (http://www.pcr-rus.com/article.html). Although the sample
    >> sizes were moderate 44, 45, 33, the second column says that these
    >> three groups were the offspring of only 4 (no soy), 4 (GM soy), and 3
    >> (non-GM soy) rats (i.e. 11 rats split into 3 groups gave birth in
    >> total).
    >>
    >> Thus, these results are likely to be accounted for by the variation in
    >> maternal and genetic effects resulted from the very small pool of
    >> mothers. In population genetics, this is referred to as the effect of
    >> genetic drift. The smaller is the population of breeders, the larger
    >> are the deviations in various trait values in the offspring, due to
    >> the random sampling of breeders.
    >>
    >> I wouldn't get too excited about these results yet.

    >
    > That's good to know, but differences were quite large as well.
    > I woould like to see more research on this.


    BTW here is the researcher's site -
    http://irina-ermakova.by.ru/eng/index.htm

    One of the links ("Stop transgenization of the country!") -
    http://irina-ermakova.by.ru/eng/oth/otr51.html

    To me, she seems to be on a mission. Do you think that mission is an
    entirely scientific exploration?
     
  6. On 10 Jan 2006 18:35:01 GMT, DZ <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Ignoramus30282 wrote:
    >> DZ wrote:
    >>> Ignoramus30282 wrote:
    >>>> http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article337253.ece
    >>> [...]
    >>>> She found that 36 per cent of the young of the rats fed the modified
    >>>> soya were severely underweight, compared to 6 per cent of the
    >>>> offspring of the other groups. More alarmingly, a staggering 55.6 per
    >>>> cent of those born to mothers on the GM diet perished within three
    >>>> weeks of birth, compared to 9 per cent of the offspring of those fed
    >>>> normal soya, and 6.8 per cent of the young of those given no soya at
    >>>> all.
    >>>
    >>> I found the table with the data from the experiment. The table is in
    >>> Russian (http://www.pcr-rus.com/article.html). Although the sample
    >>> sizes were moderate 44, 45, 33, the second column says that these
    >>> three groups were the offspring of only 4 (no soy), 4 (GM soy), and 3
    >>> (non-GM soy) rats (i.e. 11 rats split into 3 groups gave birth in
    >>> total).
    >>>
    >>> Thus, these results are likely to be accounted for by the variation in
    >>> maternal and genetic effects resulted from the very small pool of
    >>> mothers. In population genetics, this is referred to as the effect of
    >>> genetic drift. The smaller is the population of breeders, the larger
    >>> are the deviations in various trait values in the offspring, due to
    >>> the random sampling of breeders.
    >>>
    >>> I wouldn't get too excited about these results yet.

    >>
    >> That's good to know, but differences were quite large as well.
    >> I woould like to see more research on this.

    >
    > BTW here is the researcher's site -
    > http://irina-ermakova.by.ru/eng/index.htm
    >
    > One of the links ("Stop transgenization of the country!") -
    > http://irina-ermakova.by.ru/eng/oth/otr51.html
    >
    > To me, she seems to be on a mission.


    Seems quite likely.

    > Do you think that mission is an entirely scientific exploration?


    It would be, at best, a very questionable assertion to make.

    i
     
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