Re: bicyclists armed with knives, keying cars, spitting into them

[Fritz M]

Paul Hovnanian wrote:

> With this sort of
> behavior, I'd rather make access by bicycle just as difficult as
> possible to keep the riffraff out.


That's kind of the rationale behind this and similar groups:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/CyclistsAgainstBikeLanes/


RFM

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

So, exactly how is this kind of activism supposed to convince the public
to fund bicycle lanes and other accommodations? With this sort of
behavior, I'd rather make access by bicycle just as difficult as
possible to keep the riffraff out.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto[email protected]
------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet the human brain is a kludge. -- Marvin Minsky

 

[Brian Huntley]

Scott writes:

>These kinds of shenanigans only make me want to support licencing for
>pedalcycles and pedalcyclists. The #1 reason they pull this **** is
>because they have zero accountability right now. "Want me to run a red

>light? No problem! My bike has no license plates, so let that red
>light camera flash away! I'll give it the finger as I ride by!!"

I'm the kind of cyclist who doesn't run red lights, key cars, or such,
and I do have both a driver's license and personal liability insurance.
In point of fact, we DO have accountability right now. Our local police
issue literally thousands of tickets to cyclists every year.

However, I have a few questions for your proposal.

1) Where would I display this license plate? At least one of my bikes
has no fenders, and the seat post is commonly obscured from behind.

2) How would licensing the cyclist work? Would it be a 'mail in'
request, or would there be a set of knowledge and skills tests?
Who would administrate that?

3) Do your restrictions apply to children?

- Brian "Curious" Huntley

 

[Matthew Russotto]

In article <[email protected]>,
Brian Huntley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>However, I have a few questions for your proposal.
>
>1) Where would I display this license plate? At least one of my bikes
>has no fenders, and the seat post is commonly obscured from behind.

Finding an unobscured position is YOUR problem. Guess you'll need a
custom bracket hung off the seat post or frame.

>2) How would licensing the cyclist work? Would it be a 'mail in'
>request, or would there be a set of knowledge and skills tests?
>Who would administrate that?

The DMV. And the test would only be given once per month per location
by the "roving bicycle expert" who would visit one DMV location (none
near you) each day. It would involve a knowledge test AND a
road-course test.

>3) Do your restrictions apply to children?

Of course not; children are prohibited from riding on the road entirely.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

(seriously, I don't think bicycle licensing or registration will do a
damn bit a good.)

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Matthew Russotto) writes:

> (seriously, I don't think bicycle licensing or registration will do a
> damn bit a good.)

It's not even worth the expense of setting up the administration.

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

 

[Tim McNamara]

Scott en Aztlán <[email protected]> writes:

> On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:12:53 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>So, exactly how is this kind of activism supposed to convince the
>>public to fund bicycle lanes and other accommodations? With this
>>sort of behavior, I'd rather make access by bicycle just as
>>difficult as possible to keep the riffraff out.
>
> These kinds of shenanigans only make me want to support licencing
> for pedalcycles and pedalcyclists. The #1 reason they pull this ****
> is because they have zero accountability right now. "Want me to run
> a red light? No problem! My bike has no license plates, so let that
> red light camera flash away! I'll give it the finger as I ride by!!"

Calm your dudgeon, Scott. After all, license plates aren't much of a
deterrent for car drivers either. I see hundreds- if not thousands-
of violations of traffic laws by drivers every single day. And
remember that 99.5% of bicyclists are not doing these "shenanigans"
and that you should paint with a much smaller brush than you do.

Spend some of your drive time looking for bicyclists riding correctly.
I suspect you are only noticing the miscreants.

 

[Tim McNamara]

[email protected] (Matthew Russotto) writes:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Brian Huntley <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>However, I have a few questions for your proposal.
>>
>>1) Where would I display this license plate? At least one of my
>>bikes has no fenders, and the seat post is commonly obscured from
>>behind.
>
> Finding an unobscured position is YOUR problem. Guess you'll need a
> custom bracket hung off the seat post or frame.

Ain't gonna happen so there's no need to worry about where to mount a
license plate.

>>2) How would licensing the cyclist work? Would it be a 'mail in'
>>request, or would there be a set of knowledge and skills tests? Who
>>would administrate that?
>
> The DMV. And the test would only be given once per month per
> location by the "roving bicycle expert" who would visit one DMV
> location (none near you) each day. It would involve a knowledge
> test AND a road-course test.

No, no, you have no bias against cyclists. LOL!

>>3) Do your restrictions apply to children?
>
> Of course not; children are prohibited from riding on the road
> entirely.
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
>
> (seriously, I don't think bicycle licensing or registration will do
> a damn bit a good.)

I agree. It doesn't help all that much with car drivers, either.

 

[Jim Yanik]

[email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Matthew Russotto) writes:
>
>> (seriously, I don't think bicycle licensing or registration will do a
>> damn bit a good.)
>
> It's not even worth the expense of setting up the administration.
>

It is if they are considering red light cameras.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[[email protected]]

Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> Spend some of your drive time looking for bicyclists riding
correctly.
> I suspect you are only noticing the miscreants.

Of course. That's what everybody notices.

I notice the drivers who drive through the intersection after the light
has already turned red. I ignore the drivers who stopped when it became
yellow.

I notice the guy who stops in the crosswalk so I have to walk around
him, but not the polite drivers who stop where they should. (etc.)

One thing about being an assh*le. People take notice.

 

[Tim McNamara]

Scott en Aztlán <[email protected]> writes:

> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:09:11 -0600, Tim McNamara
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Calm your dudgeon, Scott.
>
> I care not a whit about your immense vocabulary.
>
>>After all, license plates aren't much of a deterrent for car drivers
>>either. I see hundreds- if not thousands- of violations of traffic
>>laws by drivers every single day.
>
> OK, now I *know* you're a liar.
>
> Most people don't even see "hundreds" of cars in a single day, let
> along hundreds of cars in the process of violating traffic laws.

Good grief, you are Assumption Boy aren't you?

I see thousands of cars a day, Scott, just on my commutes to work. So
do tens of millions of people who live in urban areas. Since I work
in two or three locations a day, five days a week, driving 250-350
miles depending on the locations, I get to spend a lot of time driving
and observing My Fellow Humans as they operate their cars. Just
counting the number of speeders alone I see hundreds of drivers
violating the law every single day (except maybe Sunday). Include the
morons driving in two lanes at once while they jabber on their cell
phones, put on their makeup, shave, read the paper, and all the other
jackassinine things people do in their cars, we're talking several
hundred to maybe a thousand violations of the law and safe driving
practice that I get to observe on a daily basis. At least half of the
drivers I see are breaking the law at any given time in one way or
another.

 

[Tim McNamara]

Scott en Aztlán <[email protected]> writes:

> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:11:11 -0600, Tim McNamara
> <[email protected]> wrote (to Matthew Russotto):
>>
>
>>No, no, you have no bias against cyclists. LOL!
>
> Wow, so you see *everybody* as biased against pedalcyclists?
>
>>I agree. It doesn't help all that much with car drivers, either.
>
> So do you advocate eliminating all licensing and registration
> requirements for motorists and automobiles?

There you go again, Scott. Keep on trollin' man! Keep on trollin'.
You're as bad as the loco Spaniard who can't spell his own screen
name.

 

[Tim McNamara]

Scott en Aztlán <[email protected]> writes:

> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:02:29 -0600, [email protected]
> (Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>
>>(seriously, I don't think bicycle licensing or registration will do
>>a damn bit a good.)
>
> I disagree. Once pedalcyclists know (for example) that red light
> cameras can take a photo of their license plates, you'll see a lot
> fewer red light running pedalcyclists.
>
> It certainly can't hurt.

Sorry, Big Brother doesn't live here yet. There are no red light
cameras taking photos of anyone anywhere in this state.

 

[Fritz M]

Scott en Aztlán wrote:

> Most people don't even see "hundreds" of cars in a single day, let
> along hundreds of cars in the process of violating traffic laws.

At one of the busier intersections in my small town we get about 8000
vehicles passing through that intersection in an hour at peak travel
times. That's 133 vehicles every minute. During this peak period, the
wait time because of signal light cycling is 80 seconds. In the 80
seconds I wait for a green light, I've seen 180 vehicles. This is a
single intersection in a small city of 76,000 without a significant
traffic congestion problem.

If I hit the Interstate and drive into Denver (not an extremely large
city), I can expect to see upwards of 10,000 vehicles on the highway
with me at peak times.

RFM

 

[Matthew Russotto]

In article <[email protected]>,
Scott en Aztlán <newsgroup> wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:02:29 -0600, [email protected]
>(Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>
>>(seriously, I don't think bicycle licensing or registration will do a
>>damn bit a good.)
>
>I disagree. Once pedalcyclists know (for example) that red light
>cameras can take a photo of their license plates, you'll see a lot
>fewer red light running pedalcyclists.

If you're the kind of control freak who likes red light cameras. I'm not.

Further, for technical reasons red light cameras aren't going to catch
a red light running cyclist. And, the cyclists would probably figure
(rightly) that it would be worth it not to display the plate; better
one ticket if a cop catches you than one every block with the red
light camera.

 

[Brian Huntley]

I wrote, and Scott replied:

>> 1) Where would I display this license plate?
> Where do you display them on your car?

The law here requires cars to have a plate mounting when sold.
Manufactures of cars are careful to allow for this. No so with bikes.

>>2) How would licensing the cyclist work?
> Same way licensing of any other vehicle driver works.

So, written test, then learner's permit, then a practical test for
a restricted license, which does not allow driving at night, or on
major highways, or with under-age passengers, or with a non-zero
blood alcohol level. Not all that applicable to bicyclists.

>>3) Do your restrictions apply to children?
> If they want to ride on the street, sure. If they are "off-road only"

>(i.e. they ride ONLY on bike paths) then one could make a case for not

>requiring licensing, at least until they reach "driving" age or
>something. But in general, if they are going to be operating a vehicle

>on public roads, they should be licensed just like every other driver.


My neighborhood doesn't have any bike paths. How do they get to them?
Should we take a lane away from cars to permit them to get out? That
would
be tricky, as there's only one traffic lane now.

Oh, and what about horses? I see them on the street every day, usually
operated
by police. Do they (the horses) need plates? Where, oh, where, do you
bolt them
on?

(And yes, horses are covered by the HTA here. They even have to have
tail-lights
at night, though oddly, not headlights.)

 

[Arif Khokar]

Fritz M wrote:

> If I hit the Interstate and drive into Denver (not an extremely large
> city), I can expect to see upwards of 10,000 vehicles on the highway
> with me at peak times.

That's not likely unless you're travelling significantly slower or
faster than the rest of traffic.

 

[Ignasi Palou-Rivera]

Arif Khokar <[email protected]> writes:

> Fritz M wrote:
>
>> If I hit the Interstate and drive into Denver (not an extremely large
>> city), I can expect to see upwards of 10,000 vehicles on the highway
>> with me at peak times.
>
> That's not likely unless you're travelling significantly slower or
> faster than the rest of traffic.

Or you are driving something very very tall...

--
Ignasi.
(using SPAM trap e-mail address)

 

[Mike Kruger]

"Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Sorry, Big Brother doesn't live here yet. There are no red
light
> cameras taking photos of anyone anywhere in this state.

Yet.

I realize this might not be a popular thing to say, but I
support red light cameras.
1. A traffic fine is like a tax. Like all taxes, I want
somebody else to pay them.
2. It seems clear to me that an increasing amount of vehicles
are ignoring traffic signals. What is this? Italy? I don't
like getting a green light and not being able to go (bicycling
or driving).
3. I don't see much difference between a physical cop and an
electronic cop in terms of civil liberties issues.
4. The issue of where to place a licence plate on a bicycle
doesn't really apply, at least not once RFID technology
improves; just require a small RFID chip. This is probably
what they should do for cars, anyway, to limit problems caused
by illegible or stolen license plates.

 

[Fritz M]

Scott en Aztlán wrote:
> Come on now, be honest.

To be honest, I don't really pay attention to cars or bicyclists
committing traffic violations. I go with the flow and get to where I'm
going. I'm not generally a red-light runner, but I don't get uptight
about the people who are. I was responding to your assertion that most
people don't see hundreds of cars in a day.

Ignasi Palou-Rivera wrote:
> Or you are driving something very very tall...



Denver is at the base of the Rocky Mountains, and Denver itself sits in
a kind of bowl. When the air is clear there are vantage points on the
Interstate where I can see probably five to ten miles of highway in
front of me. Speed limit on I-25 through Denver is mostly 55 mph; it's
not unusual for me and everybody else to go 65 or faster. If I'm not in
a hurry I might obey the speed limit, but I don't play left-lane
sheriff and I don't get ticked at everybody passing me.

For shorter trips I use a bicycle on the roads as my primary means of
transportation. For longer trips I'll probably hop in my truck. I don't
get tempted to spray brake fluid or whatever it was that started this
thread. The only behavior I can control is my own and attempting or
wishing to change the behavior of others -- especially through criminal
or vigilante acts -- only leads to frustration. I think if everybody
just relaxed the world would be a much better place.

RFM

 

[Matthew Russotto]

In article <[email protected]>,
Scott en Aztlán <newsgroup> wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 15:18:15 -0600, [email protected]
>(Matthew Russotto) wrote:
>
>>>I disagree. Once pedalcyclists know (for example) that red light
>>>cameras can take a photo of their license plates, you'll see a lot
>>>fewer red light running pedalcyclists.
>>
>>If you're the kind of control freak who likes red light cameras. I'm not.
>
>What does my like or dislike of RLCs have to do with anything?

If you disliked red light cameras, the fact that licensing cyclists
made red light cameras more useful would not count as an advantage.