Re: bike bridge, and seasonal variations in cycling

[Tony Raven]

Erik Sandblom wrote on 21/03/2007 17:05 +0100:
>
> So, what do you think? Can there be such a thing as good bike
> infrastructure separated from motor traffic? Under what circumstances?
>

In Cambridge they built a cyclists bridge over the busy A14. The net
result is two fold. First it allowed them to dedicate changes to the
alternative road route to cars making it now extremely unpleasant to
cycle. Second, following complaints, they announced that gritting the
bridge in winter would be too expensive so that it remains icy in cold
weather. Net result is a degradation, not improvement, in cycling.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

 

[Erik Sandblom]

Den 2007-03-21 19:42:10 skrev Tony Raven <[email protected]>:

> Erik Sandblom wrote on 21/03/2007 17:05 +0100:
>> So, what do you think? Can there be such a thing as good bike
>> infrastructure separated from motor traffic? Under what circumstances?
>
> In Cambridge they built a cyclists bridge over the busy A14. The net
> result is two fold. First it allowed them to dedicate changes to the
> alternative road route to cars making it now extremely unpleasant to
> cycle. Second, following complaints, they announced that gritting the
> bridge in winter would be too expensive so that it remains icy in cold
> weather. Net result is a degradation, not improvement, in cycling.


Result is also a degradation of the town's finances, since more cycling
will result in less road maintenance; while more car driving will result
in higher maintenance costs.

Erik Sandblom

--
Oil is for sissies

 

[Matt B]

Erik Sandblom wrote:
> Den 2007-03-21 19:42:10 skrev Tony Raven <[email protected]>:
>
>> Erik Sandblom wrote on 21/03/2007 17:05 +0100:
>>> So, what do you think? Can there be such a thing as good bike
>>> infrastructure separated from motor traffic? Under what circumstances?
>>
>> In Cambridge they built a cyclists bridge over the busy A14. The net
>> result is two fold. First it allowed them to dedicate changes to the
>> alternative road route to cars making it now extremely unpleasant to
>> cycle. Second, following complaints, they announced that gritting the
>> bridge in winter would be too expensive so that it remains icy in cold
>> weather. Net result is a degradation, not improvement, in cycling.
>
>
> Result is also a degradation of the town's finances, since more cycling
> will result in less road maintenance; while more car driving will result
> in higher maintenance costs.

Will less driving impact tax revenues - fuel tax, road use tax, etc.?
Is bicycle use taxed in any way there?

--
Matt B

 

[Erik Sandblom]

Den 2007-03-21 20:17:53 skrev Matt B <[email protected]>:

> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>> Den 2007-03-21 19:42:10 skrev Tony Raven <[email protected]>:
>>
>>> Erik Sandblom wrote on 21/03/2007 17:05 +0100:
>>>> So, what do you think? Can there be such a thing as good bike
>>>> infrastructure separated from motor traffic? Under what circumstances?
>>>
>>> In Cambridge they built a cyclists bridge over the busy A14. The net
>>> result is two fold. First it allowed them to dedicate changes to the
>>> alternative road route to cars making it now extremely unpleasant to
>>> cycle. Second, following complaints, they announced that gritting the
>>> bridge in winter would be too expensive so that it remains icy in cold
>>> weather. Net result is a degradation, not improvement, in cycling.
>> Result is also a degradation of the town's finances, since more
>> cycling will result in less road maintenance; while more car driving
>> will result in higher maintenance costs.
>
> Will less driving impact tax revenues - fuel tax, road use tax, etc.? Is
> bicycle use taxed in any way there?


Fossil fuel is quite heavily taxed, but this tax goes to the national
government, not to maintaining local roads.

I expect the money people save from driving less would be spent on other
consumption. Consumption tax is the biggest source of revenue for the
government, so the short-term net effect on government revenue would be
neutral.

Erik Sandblom

--
Oil is for sissies

 

[Matt B]

Erik Sandblom wrote:
> Den 2007-03-21 20:17:53 skrev Matt B <[email protected]>:
>
>> Erik Sandblom wrote:
>>> Den 2007-03-21 19:42:10 skrev Tony Raven <[email protected]>:
>>>
>>>> Erik Sandblom wrote on 21/03/2007 17:05 +0100:
>>>>> So, what do you think? Can there be such a thing as good bike
>>>>> infrastructure separated from motor traffic? Under what circumstances?
>>>>
>>>> In Cambridge they built a cyclists bridge over the busy A14. The
>>>> net result is two fold. First it allowed them to dedicate changes
>>>> to the alternative road route to cars making it now extremely
>>>> unpleasant to cycle. Second, following complaints, they announced
>>>> that gritting the bridge in winter would be too expensive so that it
>>>> remains icy in cold weather. Net result is a degradation, not
>>>> improvement, in cycling.
>>> Result is also a degradation of the town's finances, since more
>>> cycling will result in less road maintenance; while more car driving
>>> will result in higher maintenance costs.
>>
>> Will less driving impact tax revenues - fuel tax, road use tax, etc.?
>> Is bicycle use taxed in any way there?
>
>
> Fossil fuel is quite heavily taxed, but this tax goes to the national
> government, not to maintaining local roads.

Is that /all/ fossil fuel, or just petrol/diesel for road use?

> I expect the money people save from driving less would be spent on other
> consumption. Consumption tax is the biggest source of revenue for the
> government, so the short-term net effect on government revenue would be
> neutral.

Is there any bicycle use tax?

--
Matt B

 

[Erik Sandblom]

Den 2007-03-21 21:02:14 skrev Matt B <[email protected]>:
>
> Is that /all/ fossil fuel, or just petrol/diesel for road use?


All fossil fuel. Few exceptions, such as airplane fuel and international
ship transport. These are regulated by international protocolls.

Ethanol, biogas and other green fuels such as are not taxed, only 25% VAT.


>> I expect the money people save from driving less would be spent on
>> other consumption. Consumption tax is the biggest source of revenue for
>> the government, so the short-term net effect on government revenue
>> would be neutral.
>
> Is there any bicycle use tax?


No, just the 25% VAT.

Erik Sandblom

--
Oil is for sissies

 

[Erik Sandblom]

Den 2007-03-21 21:15:34 skrev Erik Sandblom <[email protected]>:

> Den 2007-03-21 21:02:14 skrev Matt B <[email protected]>:
>>
>> Is there any bicycle use tax?
>
> No, just the 25% VAT.


Oh, you might find this interesting. The people studying the bridge say
each new cyclist is rated at 2600kr/year in improved health, 186 pounds.
Older people are worth more, because better health prolongs their healthy
life more. Healthier people work more, thus pay more tax, and make less
use of public health services.

page 13. all in Swedish.
http://www.stadsbyggnad.goteborg.se/prod/stadsbyggnad/dalis2.nsf/vyFilArkiv/GangbroPlanbSamr.pdf/$file/GangbroPlanbSamr.pdf

Erik Sandblom
--
Oil is for sissies

 

[Erik Sandblom]

Den 2007-03-21 21:15:34 skrev Erik Sandblom <[email protected]>:

> Den 2007-03-21 21:02:14 skrev Matt B <[email protected]>:
>>
>> Is there any bicycle use tax?
>
> No, just the 25% VAT.
>
> Erik Sandblom


Oh, you might find this interesting. The people studying the bridge say
each new cyclist is rated at 2600kr/year in improved health, 186 pounds.
Older people are worth more, because better health prolongs their healthy
life more. Healthier people work more, thus pay more tax, and make less
use of public health services.

page 17 (18 in pdf). all in Swedish.
http://www.stadsbyggnad.goteborg.se/prod/stadsbyggnad/dalis2.nsf/vyFilArkiv/GangbroPlanbSamr.pdf/$file/GangbroPlanbSamr.pdf

Erik Sandblom

--
Oil is for sissies

 

[J. Chisholm]

Tony Raven wrote:
> Erik Sandblom wrote on 21/03/2007 17:05 +0100:
>>
>> So, what do you think? Can there be such a thing as good bike
>> infrastructure separated from motor traffic? Under what circumstances?
>>
>
> In Cambridge they built a cyclists bridge over the busy A14. The net
> result is two fold. First it allowed them to dedicate changes to the
> alternative road route to cars making it now extremely unpleasant to
> cycle. Second, following complaints, they announced that gritting the
> bridge in winter would be too expensive so that it remains icy in cold
> weather. Net result is a degradation, not improvement, in cycling.
>
I think the failure to salt this route resulted from ****-up rather than
conspiracy theory.
The Bridge was built by Highways Agency (it is over Trunk Road) and it
spans to LA boundaries. I've been told it WILL be salted in future, and
that the priority for salting cycle routes in Cambridgeshire is under
review. The existance of this bridge has I believe doubled cycling into
Cambridge over that when it was necessary to use high speed r'about or
narrow footpaths.

Jim Chisholm