Re: Blood Microscopy

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Bronsing, Sep 4, 2003.

  1. Bronsing

    Bronsing Guest

    Tags:


  2. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]


    > > > One drop of blood is drawn from your finger and is placed under the
    > > > microscope which is connected to a video monitor projecting and at the

    > > same
    > > > time recording the activity. The technician thoroughly describes the
    > > > procedure, evaluates the finding, and offers suggestions as to how to
    > > > correct imbalances through diet and nutritional supplementation.

    > >
    > > And his suggestions invariably involve the purchase of the very

    > supplements
    > > that he is selling!
    > >
    > > What a bunch of inept pseudoscience. Your attempts to fool people are
    > > despicable.
    > >
    > > --Rich

    >
    > Your profound ignorance is overwhelming. I have had numerous people tell me
    > that you are
    > a drug company shill. I have to believe that. In case you don't understand
    > what a shill is......
    >
    >
    > shill ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl) Slang
    > n.
    > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe
    > bystanders into participating in a swindle.


    One can't help but notice that, instead of addressing the criticism that
    live cell microscopy is pseudoscience and quackery, you choose the ad
    hominem attack. You choose to misdirect attention from the point Rich
    made (that live cell microscopy is quackery) by misdirecting people with
    a smear on him as a "drug company shill."

    Next, no doubt you'll attack me for pointing out this tendency of yours.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  3. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > >
    > > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]

    >
    > > > > One drop of blood is drawn from your finger and is placed under the
    > > > > microscope which is connected to a video monitor projecting and at

    the
    > > > same
    > > > > time recording the activity. The technician thoroughly describes the
    > > > > procedure, evaluates the finding, and offers suggestions as to how

    to
    > > > > correct imbalances through diet and nutritional supplementation.
    > > >
    > > > And his suggestions invariably involve the purchase of the very

    > > supplements
    > > > that he is selling!
    > > >
    > > > What a bunch of inept pseudoscience. Your attempts to fool people are
    > > > despicable.
    > > >
    > > > --Rich

    > >
    > > Your profound ignorance is overwhelming. I have had numerous people tell

    me
    > > that you are
    > > a drug company shill. I have to believe that. In case you don't

    understand
    > > what a shill is......
    > >
    > >
    > > shill ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl) Slang
    > > n.
    > > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe
    > > bystanders into participating in a swindle.

    >
    > One can't help but notice that, instead of addressing the criticism that
    > live cell microscopy is pseudoscience and quackery, you choose the ad
    > hominem attack. You choose to misdirect attention from the point Rich
    > made (that live cell microscopy is quackery) by misdirecting people with
    > a smear on him as a "drug company shill."
    >
    > Next, no doubt you'll attack me for pointing out this tendency of yours.


    Not at all, what I said was that his comments show a fundamental ignorance.
    I don't accept
    ignorance.


    > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    > |
    > |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    > | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  4. Mark Probert

    Mark Probert Guest

  5. Mark Probert

    Mark Probert Guest

    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:eek:[email protected]
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > >
    > > > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]

    > >
    > > > > > One drop of blood is drawn from your finger and is placed under

    the
    > > > > > microscope which is connected to a video monitor projecting and at

    > the
    > > > > same
    > > > > > time recording the activity. The technician thoroughly describes

    the
    > > > > > procedure, evaluates the finding, and offers suggestions as to how

    > to
    > > > > > correct imbalances through diet and nutritional supplementation.
    > > > >
    > > > > And his suggestions invariably involve the purchase of the very
    > > > supplements
    > > > > that he is selling!
    > > > >
    > > > > What a bunch of inept pseudoscience. Your attempts to fool people

    are
    > > > > despicable.
    > > > >
    > > > > --Rich
    > > >
    > > > Your profound ignorance is overwhelming. I have had numerous people

    tell
    > me
    > > > that you are
    > > > a drug company shill. I have to believe that. In case you don't

    > understand
    > > > what a shill is......
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > shill ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl) Slang
    > > > n.
    > > > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to

    dupe
    > > > bystanders into participating in a swindle.

    > >
    > > One can't help but notice that, instead of addressing the criticism that
    > > live cell microscopy is pseudoscience and quackery, you choose the ad
    > > hominem attack. You choose to misdirect attention from the point Rich
    > > made (that live cell microscopy is quackery) by misdirecting people with
    > > a smear on him as a "drug company shill."
    > >
    > > Next, no doubt you'll attack me for pointing out this tendency of yours.

    >
    > Not at all, what I said was that his comments show a fundamental

    ignorance.
    > I don't accept
    > ignorance.


    If you do not accept ignorance, then why do you post what you do?
     
  6. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:eek:[email protected]
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]


    > > > > And his suggestions invariably involve the purchase of the very
    > > > supplements
    > > > > that he is selling!
    > > > >
    > > > > What a bunch of inept pseudoscience. Your attempts to fool people are
    > > > > despicable.
    > > > >
    > > > > --Rich
    > > >
    > > > Your profound ignorance is overwhelming. I have had numerous people tell

    > me
    > > > that you are
    > > > a drug company shill. I have to believe that. In case you don't

    > understand
    > > > what a shill is......
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > shill ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl) Slang
    > > > n.
    > > > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe
    > > > bystanders into participating in a swindle.

    > >
    > > One can't help but notice that, instead of addressing the criticism that
    > > live cell microscopy is pseudoscience and quackery, you choose the ad
    > > hominem attack. You choose to misdirect attention from the point Rich
    > > made (that live cell microscopy is quackery) by misdirecting people with
    > > a smear on him as a "drug company shill."
    > >
    > > Next, no doubt you'll attack me for pointing out this tendency of yours.

    >
    > Not at all, what I said was that his comments show a fundamental ignorance.


    "Fundamental ignorance"? Bullshit. You called Rich a "shill" for the
    pharmaceutical companies, even going so far as to provide dictionary
    definitions of the word "shill," "in case" (as you put it) "you don't
    understand what a shill is." That's more than just calling Rich
    "ignorant." That's an accusation that he is saying what he is saying for
    motives that are not pure. You were questioning his integrity and all
    but calling him a liar. Worse, you didn't bother to back up your
    accusation with anything other than the worst form of hearsay, that
    others had told you on Usenet that he was a "shill."

    So, now that you've made the accusation that Rich is a "shill" for the
    pharmaceutical companies and have been challenged on in, if you are an
    honorable person, you will either produce evidence to back up your
    accusation or you retract your accusation and apologize to Rich for
    falsely impugning his integrity.


    > I don't accept
    > ignorance.


    And I don't accept unjustified, unsubstantiated accusations, like the
    one you just launched on Rich.

    Now, back to the pseudoscientific crap that is "live cell blood
    microscopy." Please tell us what evidence there is that this test is
    useful for anything but lining the pockets of altie practitioners at the
    expense of gullible marks who go "ooh" and "ahh" when they see their own
    red blood cells on a video screen.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  7. Peter Moran

    Peter Moran Guest

    Here's an example of how they fool the suckers.

    The before and after slides here may only mean something to those who have
    used a microscope medically, but they show the depths of deception
    involved.

    The one on the left is unrecognisable as anything, but is presumably the
    edge of a dried out or otherwise maltreated blood smear. It apparently
    shows that you badly need something called Prozyme. The one on the right
    shows a dark ground image of some red cells floating in liquid, which is
    not even a good enough image to show the cells to illustrate the normal
    expansion of red cells towards their edges.

    http://www.sidekicksonline.com/marketing/blood.htm


    Peter Moran
     
  8. "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Your profound ignorance is overwhelming. I have had numerous people tell me
    >that you are
    >a drug company shill. I have to believe that. In case you don't understand
    >what a shill is......


    Step 1, Dave. Don't forget where calling someone a paedophile comes in
    the schedule. And don't forget to mention the basement he lives in and
    how bankrupt he is. All taught in Arguing Nonsense 102.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
     
  9. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Mark Probert" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:eek:[email protected]


    > > > One can't help but notice that, instead of addressing the criticism that
    > > > live cell microscopy is pseudoscience and quackery, you choose the ad
    > > > hominem attack. You choose to misdirect attention from the point Rich
    > > > made (that live cell microscopy is quackery) by misdirecting people with
    > > > a smear on him as a "drug company shill."
    > > >
    > > > Next, no doubt you'll attack me for pointing out this tendency of yours.

    > >
    > > Not at all, what I said was that his comments show a fundamental

    > ignorance.
    > > I don't accept
    > > ignorance.

    >
    > If you do not accept ignorance, then why do you post what you do?


    Heh heh. Concise, to the point, and quite accurate. I wish I'd said it.
    ;-)

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  10. --

    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > Your profound ignorance is overwhelming. I have had numerous people tell

    me
    > that you are
    > a drug company shill. I have to believe that. In case you don't understand
    > what a shill is......
    >
    >
    > shill ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl) Slang
    > n.
    > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe
    > bystanders into participating in a swindle.
    >
    > v. shilled, shill·ing, shills
    > v. intr.
    > To act as a shill.
    >
    > v. tr.
    > To act as a shill for (a deceitful enterprise).
    > To lure (a person) into a swindle.
    >


    LOL! If I'm a shill for the pharm companies, they must be sending my
    paycheck to the wrong address. :eek:D. As for my "ignorance," I'll match my
    knowledge against yours in just about any subject category you care to name.
    How about we start with the subject of microscopic examination of human
    blood? Or perhaps you would prefer a body of knowledge that's off topic for
    this newsgroup such as art history, or baseball, or American literature, or
    geography. You can call me "ignorant" if you wish, but I'm smarter than you,
    and better educated, and I have more "real experience" than you besides.

    ;o) Rich
     
  11. Happy Dog

    Happy Dog Guest

    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > Not at all, what I said was that his comments show a fundamental

    ignorance.
    > I don't accept
    > ignorance.


    And yopu're wrong. And you haven't shown exactly why you make this claim.
    erf
     
  12. Mark Probert

    Mark Probert Guest

    "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Mark Probert" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:eek:[email protected]

    >
    > > > > One can't help but notice that, instead of addressing the criticism

    that
    > > > > live cell microscopy is pseudoscience and quackery, you choose the

    ad
    > > > > hominem attack. You choose to misdirect attention from the point

    Rich
    > > > > made (that live cell microscopy is quackery) by misdirecting people

    with
    > > > > a smear on him as a "drug company shill."
    > > > >
    > > > > Next, no doubt you'll attack me for pointing out this tendency of

    yours.
    > > >
    > > > Not at all, what I said was that his comments show a fundamental

    > > ignorance.
    > > > I don't accept
    > > > ignorance.

    > >
    > > If you do not accept ignorance, then why do you post what you do?

    >
    > Heh heh. Concise, to the point, and quite accurate. I wish I'd said it.
    > ;-)


    I was a bit surprised that I beat you to it.
     
  13. --

    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:JL%[email protected]
    >
    > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > >
    > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Your profound ignorance is overwhelming. I have had numerous people

    tell
    > > me
    > > > that you are
    > > > a drug company shill. I have to believe that. In case you don't

    > understand
    > > > what a shill is......
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > shill ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl) Slang
    > > > n.
    > > > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to

    dupe
    > > > bystanders into participating in a swindle.
    > > >
    > > > v. shilled, shill·ing, shills
    > > > v. intr.
    > > > To act as a shill.
    > > >
    > > > v. tr.
    > > > To act as a shill for (a deceitful enterprise).
    > > > To lure (a person) into a swindle.
    > > >

    > >
    > > LOL! If I'm a shill for the pharm companies, they must be sending my
    > > paycheck to the wrong address. :eek:D. As for my "ignorance," I'll match

    my
    > > knowledge against yours in just about any subject category you care to

    > name.
    > > How about we start with the subject of microscopic examination of human
    > > blood? Or perhaps you would prefer a body of knowledge that's off topic

    > for
    > > this newsgroup such as art history, or baseball, or American literature,

    > or
    > > geography. You can call me "ignorant" if you wish, but I'm smarter than

    > you,
    > > and better educated, and I have more "real experience" than you besides.

    >
    > I'm sure you are correct when you say you have lots of knowledge. You have
    > probably studied
    > many things very diligently. What you don't possess is understanding.
    > Understanding is a
    > spiritual thing. It can't be learned it is acquired by getting in touch

    with
    > the universe.


    So you "understand" the universe without knowledge? Why not acquire a little
    knowledge to go along with that profound understanding? It sounds to me like
    you are just too lazy to study anything "very diligently."



    It allows us
    > to understand things that we have never even studied. It is the secret

    that
    > the people you refer
    > to as "alties" possess to one degree or another. It is the reason you hate
    > us so, because you
    > can't understand what we understand. We live life on a higher (spiritual)
    > plane.


    I've heard of a holier-than-thou attitude before, but I think this is the
    first time I've ever heard anyone make the bald claim.

    >
    > So, I live my life with love. I help people every single day because I

    care
    > about them.


    I, too, help people every day, and care about them. And I find knowledge to
    be indispensible to that process.


    >
    > So you can tell anyone you wish that you are better educated than me and

    can
    > answer more technical questions than me. But I wish for you to find
    > understanding so you no longer need that to be secure with yourself. If

    you
    > are sick, I wish you to find the path to health. If not, I hope you will
    > study the benefits of supplements.


    I've read a lot about the benefits of supplements. And there ARE benefits
    for some people. I believe women of child-bearing age shoud be taking folic
    acid supplement. Elderly people should be getting some extra calcium. But
    supplements are not miracle medications, and not everyone needs to be taking
    them. I've also studied the benefits of sitting in the lotus position and
    chanting a mantra. I don't do that either.

    If you are sick, I hope you have a good physician. And I hope you eat
    nutritious foods and get some exercise.

    And for your sake, I hope you actually learn something every day. The mind
    needs supplements.

    --Rich
     
  14. Tsu Dho Nimh

    Tsu Dho Nimh Guest

    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Although live cell microscopy was invented 70 years ago, only with the
    >recent advent of a video camera and monitor did it become possible for the
    >patient to become involved by observing the immediate test results on the
    >screen. Richard Santee performs this diagnostic test using only one drop of
    >blood. It is placed under a microscope, magnified 1000 times and projected
    >onto a television tape recording monitor. This high-powered magnification
    >will allow you to actually view your blood cells and immune system in action
    >at the cellular level!


    No ... the immune system actions are at a molecular level, and
    invisible with ordinary microscopy.

    What he is showing is mystifying to the client, and therefore can
    be exploited. Strands of fibrin and platelets are called
    "parasites", and rouleaux of RBS are touted as abnormal (when
    it's normal for them to do it as the specimen dries).



    Tsu Dho Nimh

    --
    When businesses invoke the "protection of consumers," it's a lot like
    politicians invoking morality and children - grab your wallet and/or
    your kid and run for your life.
     
  15. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <JL%[email protected]>,
    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]


    > > How about we start with the subject of microscopic examination of human
    > > blood? Or perhaps you would prefer a body of knowledge that's off topic

    > for
    > > this newsgroup such as art history, or baseball, or American literature,

    > or
    > > geography. You can call me "ignorant" if you wish, but I'm smarter than

    > you,
    > > and better educated, and I have more "real experience" than you besides.

    >
    > I'm sure you are correct when you say you have lots of knowledge. You
    > have probably studied many things very diligently. What you don't
    > possess is understanding. Understanding is a spiritual thing. It
    > can't be learned it is acquired by getting in touch with the
    > universe. It allows us to understand things that we have never even
    > studied.


    You can't "understand" something without having knowledge of it upon
    which to base your "understanding." For some things, obtaining this
    knowledge involves study. In others (for instance, people skills) this
    knowledge comes from life experience.


    >It is the secret that the people you refer to as "alties"
    > possess to one degree or another. It is the reason you hate us so,
    > because you can't understand what we understand. We live life on a
    > higher (spiritual) plane.


    Those who truly live on a "higher" (spiritual) plain (as you put it)
    generally remember one of the greatest virtues: humility. Gandhi didn't
    brag about "living on a higher plain," nor did Jesus, Martin Luther
    King, etc., etc., etc. None of them claimed that anyone couldn't
    understand what they understood.


    > So, I live my life with love. I help people every single day because I care
    > about them.


    Not to mention a profitable business selling herbs.


    >
    > So you can tell anyone you wish that you are better educated than me and can
    > answer more technical questions than me. But I wish for you to find
    > understanding so you no longer need that to be secure with yourself.


    "Understanding" that goes against science and even common sense is no
    "understanding" at all.


    >If you
    > are sick, I wish you to find the path to health. If not, I hope you will
    > study the benefits of supplements.


    One hopes you will also realize the limitations of supplements. So far,
    I have not gotten the impression that you do.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  16. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]
    > In article <JL%[email protected]>,
    > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]

    >
    > > > How about we start with the subject of microscopic examination of

    human
    > > > blood? Or perhaps you would prefer a body of knowledge that's off

    topic
    > > for
    > > > this newsgroup such as art history, or baseball, or American

    literature,
    > > or
    > > > geography. You can call me "ignorant" if you wish, but I'm smarter

    than
    > > you,
    > > > and better educated, and I have more "real experience" than you

    besides.
    > >
    > > I'm sure you are correct when you say you have lots of knowledge. You
    > > have probably studied many things very diligently. What you don't
    > > possess is understanding. Understanding is a spiritual thing. It
    > > can't be learned it is acquired by getting in touch with the
    > > universe. It allows us to understand things that we have never even
    > > studied.

    >
    > You can't "understand" something without having knowledge of it upon
    > which to base your "understanding." For some things, obtaining this
    > knowledge involves study. In others (for instance, people skills) this
    > knowledge comes from life experience.
    >
    >
    > >It is the secret that the people you refer to as "alties"
    > > possess to one degree or another. It is the reason you hate us so,
    > > because you can't understand what we understand. We live life on a
    > > higher (spiritual) plane.

    >
    > Those who truly live on a "higher" (spiritual) plain (as you put it)
    > generally remember one of the greatest virtues: humility. Gandhi didn't
    > brag about "living on a higher plain," nor did Jesus, Martin Luther
    > King, etc., etc., etc. None of them claimed that anyone couldn't
    > understand what they understood.


    And I never ever brag about it nor usually even mention it.

    > > So, I live my life with love. I help people every single day because I

    care
    > > about them.

    >
    > Not to mention a profitable business selling herbs.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > So you can tell anyone you wish that you are better educated than me and

    can
    > > answer more technical questions than me. But I wish for you to find
    > > understanding so you no longer need that to be secure with yourself.

    >
    > "Understanding" that goes against science and even common sense is no
    > "understanding" at all.
    >
    >
    > >If you
    > > are sick, I wish you to find the path to health. If not, I hope you

    will
    > > study the benefits of supplements.

    >
    > One hopes you will also realize the limitations of supplements. So far,
    > I have not gotten the impression that you do.
    > --
    > Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    > |
    > |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    > | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  17. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:eek:[email protected]
    > > In article <JL%[email protected]>,
    > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]

    > >
    > > > > How about we start with the subject of microscopic examination of

    > human
    > > > > blood? Or perhaps you would prefer a body of knowledge that's off

    > topic
    > > > for
    > > > > this newsgroup such as art history, or baseball, or American

    > literature,
    > > > or
    > > > > geography. You can call me "ignorant" if you wish, but I'm smarter

    > than
    > > > you,
    > > > > and better educated, and I have more "real experience" than you

    > besides.
    > > >
    > > > I'm sure you are correct when you say you have lots of knowledge. You
    > > > have probably studied many things very diligently. What you don't
    > > > possess is understanding. Understanding is a spiritual thing. It
    > > > can't be learned it is acquired by getting in touch with the
    > > > universe. It allows us to understand things that we have never even
    > > > studied.

    > >
    > > You can't "understand" something without having knowledge of it upon
    > > which to base your "understanding." For some things, obtaining this
    > > knowledge involves study. In others (for instance, people skills) this
    > > knowledge comes from life experience.


    It is like I said, the understanding to which I refer is spiritual. It is
    not learned or studied.
    It just is.

    > > >It is the secret that the people you refer to as "alties"
    > > > possess to one degree or another. It is the reason you hate us so,
    > > > because you can't understand what we understand. We live life on a
    > > > higher (spiritual) plane.

    > >
    > > Those who truly live on a "higher" (spiritual) plain (as you put it)
    > > generally remember one of the greatest virtues: humility. Gandhi didn't
    > > brag about "living on a higher plain," nor did Jesus, Martin Luther
    > > King, etc., etc., etc. None of them claimed that anyone couldn't
    > > understand what they understood.

    >
    > And I never ever brag about it nor usually even mention it.
    >
    > > > So, I live my life with love. I help people every single day because I

    > care
    > > > about them.

    > >
    > > Not to mention a profitable business selling herbs.


    Does someone give you your food? Your medicine? Why would you expect that I
    would?


    > > > So you can tell anyone you wish that you are better educated than me

    and
    > can
    > > > answer more technical questions than me. But I wish for you to find
    > > > understanding so you no longer need that to be secure with yourself.

    > >
    > > "Understanding" that goes against science and even common sense is no
    > > "understanding" at all.


    You make my case.

    > > >If you
    > > > are sick, I wish you to find the path to health. If not, I hope you

    > will
    > > > study the benefits of supplements.

    > >
    > > One hopes you will also realize the limitations of supplements. So far,
    > > I have not gotten the impression that you do.


    You continue to make my case. You don't seem to understand that you will not
    continue (you aren't now but don't know it) to be healthy unless you take
    good
    quality (there's tons of crap out there) supplements every single day. As
    long as
    you maintain your ignorance of such matters, you do yourself and everyone
    you
    council a disservice.

    In order to be a doctor you study for 10 years. You study about the bodily
    functions
    from the perspective of medicines and how they affect those systems. The
    trouble is
    that "nature" (the all powerful force) designed us to function by eating
    natural things in
    a natural form. Generally speaking, once any substance is heated to the
    temperature
    necessary to create a fabricated substance, the "natural" properties are
    destroyed. The
    result is a substance in a form that is foreign to our bodies.

    Anyway, the posts I have seen here regarding immune systems and supplements
    are
    so misguided as to denote ignorance of the subject from the posters.
     
  18. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:eek:[email protected]
    > > In article <JL%[email protected]>,
    > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:


    > > >It is the secret that the people you refer to as "alties"
    > > > possess to one degree or another. It is the reason you hate us so,
    > > > because you can't understand what we understand. We live life on a
    > > > higher (spiritual) plane.

    > >
    > > Those who truly live on a "higher" (spiritual) plain (as you put it)
    > > generally remember one of the greatest virtues: humility. Gandhi didn't
    > > brag about "living on a higher plain," nor did Jesus, Martin Luther
    > > King, etc., etc., etc. None of them claimed that anyone couldn't
    > > understand what they understood.

    >
    > And I never ever brag about it nor usually even mention it.


    You just did.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
  19. Mark Probert

    Mark Probert Guest

    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:JL%[email protected]

    > I'm sure you are correct when you say you have lots of knowledge. You have
    > probably studied
    > many things very diligently. What you don't possess is understanding.
    > Understanding is a
    > spiritual thing. It can't be learned it is acquired by getting in touch

    with
    > the universe. It allows us
    > to understand things that we have never even studied. It is the secret

    that
    > the people you refer
    > to as "alties" possess to one degree or another. It is the reason you hate
    > us so, because you
    > can't understand what we understand. We live life on a higher (spiritual)
    > plane.


    Read:

    http://www.vard.org/jour/00/37/3/kauzl373.htm
     
  20. Orac

    Orac Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "Orac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:eek:[email protected]
    > > > In article <JL%[email protected]>,
    > > > "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > > > > How about we start with the subject of microscopic examination of

    > > human
    > > > > > blood? Or perhaps you would prefer a body of knowledge that's off

    > > topic
    > > > > for
    > > > > > this newsgroup such as art history, or baseball, or American

    > > literature,
    > > > > or
    > > > > > geography. You can call me "ignorant" if you wish, but I'm smarter

    > > than
    > > > > you,
    > > > > > and better educated, and I have more "real experience" than you

    > > besides.
    > > > >
    > > > > I'm sure you are correct when you say you have lots of knowledge. You
    > > > > have probably studied many things very diligently. What you don't
    > > > > possess is understanding. Understanding is a spiritual thing. It
    > > > > can't be learned it is acquired by getting in touch with the
    > > > > universe. It allows us to understand things that we have never even
    > > > > studied.
    > > >
    > > > You can't "understand" something without having knowledge of it upon
    > > > which to base your "understanding." For some things, obtaining this
    > > > knowledge involves study. In others (for instance, people skills) this
    > > > knowledge comes from life experience.

    >
    > It is like I said, the understanding to which I refer is spiritual. It is
    > not learned or studied.
    > It just is.


    B.S. The greatest spiritual people of the world spent their lifetimes
    trying to "understand." Your claim of a "spiritual understanding" that
    does not require any sort of study or life experience (that "just is,"
    as you so quaintly put it) strikes me as really being more of an excuse
    for intellectual laziness, an excuse not to have to defend your
    assertions when challenged.


    > > > >It is the secret that the people you refer to as "alties"
    > > > > possess to one degree or another. It is the reason you hate us so,
    > > > > because you can't understand what we understand. We live life on a
    > > > > higher (spiritual) plane.
    > > >
    > > > Those who truly live on a "higher" (spiritual) plain (as you put it)
    > > > generally remember one of the greatest virtues: humility. Gandhi didn't
    > > > brag about "living on a higher plain," nor did Jesus, Martin Luther
    > > > King, etc., etc., etc. None of them claimed that anyone couldn't
    > > > understand what they understood.

    > >
    > > And I never ever brag about it nor usually even mention it.
    > >
    > > > > So, I live my life with love. I help people every single day because I

    > > care
    > > > > about them.
    > > >
    > > > Not to mention a profitable business selling herbs.

    >
    > Does someone give you your food? Your medicine? Why would you expect that I
    > would?


    Obviously irony is lost on you, and you don't see my point. I don't
    begrudge you a means to make a living, as long as it's honest. I'll make
    my point explicit: Why do alties so frequently criticize doctors for
    "making money off of sick people"?


    > > > > So you can tell anyone you wish that you are better educated than me

    > and
    > > can
    > > > > answer more technical questions than me. But I wish for you to find
    > > > > understanding so you no longer need that to be secure with yourself.
    > > >
    > > > "Understanding" that goes against science and even common sense is no
    > > > "understanding" at all.

    >
    > You make my case.
    >
    > > > >If you
    > > > > are sick, I wish you to find the path to health. If not, I hope you

    > > will
    > > > > study the benefits of supplements.
    > > >
    > > > One hopes you will also realize the limitations of supplements. So far,
    > > > I have not gotten the impression that you do.

    >
    > You continue to make my case. You don't seem to understand that you
    > will not continue (you aren't now but don't know it) to be healthy
    > unless you take good quality (there's tons of crap out there)
    > supplements every single day.


    During evolution, humans didn't take supplements, nor did their hominid
    ancestors. Supplements are not necessary to maintain health. A good diet
    and healthy lifestyle are.


    >As long as you maintain your ignorance
    > of such matters, you do yourself and everyone you council a
    > disservice.


    As long as you keep making incorrect claims that people won't be healthy
    unless they take supplements every single day, you do everyone YOU
    counsel a disservice.


    > In order to be a doctor you study for 10 years. You study about the
    > bodily functions from the perspective of medicines and how they
    > affect those systems.


    We study anatomy, biochemistry, and physiology BEFORE learning about how
    medicines work.


    >The trouble is that "nature" (the all powerful
    > force) designed us to function by eating natural things in a natural
    > form.


    Quite correct. Which means that supplements are not necessary for good
    health--contrary to your original claim that they are.


    >Generally speaking, once any substance is heated to the
    > temperature necessary to create a fabricated substance, the "natural"
    > properties are destroyed.


    Not heating meat results in a risk of disease that is too high to be
    acceptable. Otherwise, eating lots of fresh fruit and vegetables is
    certainly a good idea for a healthy diet. If you eat a healthy diet,
    supplements are not necessary.


    >The result is a substance in a form that is
    > foreign to our bodies.


    How is the preparation of supplements NOT making those supplements
    equally a substance "foreign" to our bodies?


    > Anyway, the posts I have seen here regarding immune systems and
    > supplements are so misguided as to denote ignorance of the subject
    > from the posters.


    Nearly every post I have seen from you is so misguided as to demonstrate
    your ignorance about a great many things.
    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"
     
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