Re: Boris Johnson's bike stolen



On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:54:03 +0100,
John Rowland <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dylan Smith wrote:
>> On 2007-08-02, howard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Camden Police left a few decoy bikes around. All were stolen within
>>>> an hour IIRC. They led the police to thieves and their caches of
>>>> product that weren't just bicycles. They were happy with the
>>>> results.
>>>
>>> It's entrapment. Im still not clear if that's legal ?

>>
>> No it's not. Entrapment would be, say, if the police officer actively
>> encouraged somebody to commit a crime. Leaving a bicycle parked that
>> happens to belong to the police, and which they happen to be able to
>> track is not entrapment, because normally law abiding people would not
>> steal the bike.

>
> So is picking up something you find in the street a crime?


Quite possibly theft by finding. I think you have to take reasonable
steps to ascertain that the items have indeed been abandoned or are
ownerless.

> back yard next to the bins - was that a crime? If I found an unlocked bike
> with nobody near, I would consider it to be abandoned and presume that if I
> didn't take it, someone else would.


Well I wouldn't have had a bike for most of my childhood then. Nor
would my mates. We lived in a very small town and no-one bothered to
lock up bikes.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
 
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:06:40 +0100, "Clive George"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"John Rowland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...


>> If I found an unlocked bike with nobody near, I would consider it to be
>> abandoned and presume that if I didn't take it, someone else would.

>
>Define "nobody near" and "abandoned".
>
>If you see an unlocked bike and walk off with it, that is quite likely to be
>theft.


No "likely" about it - it's theft, pure and simple.

>The fact that somebody else may have taken it later doesn't make you
>any less of a criminal - you would be as bad as they are.


Indeed.

>If you have taken adequate steps to ensure the bike has been abandoned, then
>fine.


"Adequate steps" being, tell the poilce it's there and wait for them
to tell you you can have it.

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom
 
In article <[email protected]>, Sam Nelson
<[email protected]> writes
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...


>> On my visits to the swimming pool, I take off the front wheel and lock
>> it along with the frame and back wheel to a railing or Sheffield stand
>> depending on which pool I'm at. Like you I remove the saddle, but also
>> the seat post and bring them inside with me. I'm not losing another
>> Brooks.

>
>I lock the lock to the nearest railings and take the entire bike in.


I'd do that too, if I was allowed, but then I'd not have anything to
immobilise it with inside.

What's to stop someone wheeling yours out while you're in the pool? Do
they have extra large changing room lockers?
--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com
 
In article <[email protected]>, Douglas Hall
<[email protected]> writes
>"congokid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>(umtm crosspost dropped)


Oops - missed that first time.

>> On my visits to the swimming pool, I take off the front wheel and lock it
>> along with the frame and back wheel to a railing or Sheffield stand
>> depending on which pool I'm at. Like you I remove the saddle, but also the
>> seat post and bring them inside with me. I'm not losing another Brooks.

>
>Is that 'cos your seatpost has a quick-release on it, or do you take it
>based on "if it's not nailed down some scrote will nick it..."?


I do have a quick release, fitted after some scrote nicked my first
Brooks saddle and post while my bike was in Poland Street car park.

>I don't currently leave my bike locked up much outside anywhere at the
>moment, but I changed the qr on the seatpost clamp to an allen key bolt,
>some years back - I'm guessing that's probably not good enough, were I to
>leave it somewhere?


I personally don't risk it. Depends what your saddle is worth to you if
you had to replace it - and can you get far without it?

When I worked at an office where I couldn't park the bike off street, I
didn't bother locking it to railings, though there were lots around. I
bought a Brompton.
--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com
 
But what can you do about it. Say you are coming out of the swimming
pool/shop/pub and find someone in the act of stealing your bike, what
next?

1, Do you start dialing 999?
2, Kick him in the balls and then dial 999?
3, Pull his hoody over his eyes, kick him in the balls and then dial
999?
4, Shout 'oi' from a safe distance and hope he runs off?
5, Let him take it 'cos you need a new bike and your insurance will
cover it?
6, Take a picture with your camera phone, shout 'oi' and then dial
999?
7, Start a slow clap (wasn't there some **** public information video
from a few years back that had clapping)
8, Beat the **** out of him and ride home?
9, Exercise a citizen's arrest?
10, A combination of the above?
 
in message <[email protected]>, John Rowland
('[email protected]') wrote:

> So is picking up something you find in the street a crime? I have often
> taken home swivel chairs which I have found in the street, or in an
> office's back yard next to the bins - was that a crime? If I found an
> unlocked bike with nobody near, I would consider it to be abandoned and
> presume that if I didn't take it, someone else would.


Maybe it's because I'm a backwoodsman... Around here people don't lock
their houses or their cars, let alone their bikes. When I cycle in to
town, I don't normally take a lock with me. Why should I? People are
honest.

You do have to be a bit more careful in tourist season, though.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn.
;; Jim Morrison
 
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:54:03 +0100,
John Rowland <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dylan Smith wrote:
>> On 2007-08-02, howard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Camden Police left a few decoy bikes around. All were stolen within
>>>> an hour IIRC. They led the police to thieves and their caches of
>>>> product that weren't just bicycles. They were happy with the
>>>> results.
>>>
>>> It's entrapment. Im still not clear if that's legal ?

>>
>> No it's not. Entrapment would be, say, if the police officer actively
>> encouraged somebody to commit a crime. Leaving a bicycle parked that
>> happens to belong to the police, and which they happen to be able to
>> track is not entrapment, because normally law abiding people would not
>> steal the bike.

>
> So is picking up something you find in the street a crime? I have often
> taken home swivel chairs which I have found in the street, or in an office's
> back yard next to the bins - was that a crime? If I found an unlocked bike
> with nobody near, I would consider it to be abandoned and presume that if I
> didn't take it, someone else would.
>

Taking with the intent to permanently deprive the owner is theft. If you
found an expensive bike left unlocked with no obvious owner you could
take it to keep it safe. Informing the police as soon as resonably
possible that you had taken it would show that you didn't intend to
permanently deprive. (I suspect you still might be liable for a civil
claim for the owners taxi ride home.)

Typically for stuff in bins/skips the ownership transfers to the
owner/emptyier of the skip. I know someone who used to work at a company
where when they disposed of "salvagable" equipment used to put it all
into a skip and then move the skip outside the factory gate for
collection. At which point the staff who had just loaded the skip took
all the good stuff back out (which they had arranged to make sure was
all on the top ;-) and put it in their cars. The company worked like
this and didn't allow the employees to just take stuff because it made
the tax situation for the company very clear and very simple.
Technically, the staff were stealing from the skip collection company.

(They also had a bonded warehouse and when goods there were discarded
there used to be some sort of government inspector who used to watch
while a sledge hammer was put through the equipment before it was put
into the skip. So much for being green. I don't fully understand how it
works but aparently the duty that would have to be paid to take the
stuff out of the warehouse was more than it could ever sell for so
really the company's only option was to destroy it in the warehouse :-( )

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
 
Phil Cook wrote:
>
> The Camden plod are not asking the bike thieves to steal these
> particular bikes. They might be if they were to lock up a top of the
> range full-suss-diskbraked job with just a squire cable lock
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0001P0ANG
> But I doubt that's what they do.


Squire cable locks can be picked in about 2s if you know
how, they are useless.
 
Andy Leighton <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:54:03 +0100,
> John Rowland <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Dylan Smith wrote:
> >> On 2007-08-02, howard <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Camden Police left a few decoy bikes around. All were stolen within
> >>>> an hour IIRC. They led the police to thieves and their caches of
> >>>> product that weren't just bicycles. They were happy with the
> >>>> results.
> >>>
> >>> It's entrapment. Im still not clear if that's legal ?
> >>
> >> No it's not. Entrapment would be, say, if the police officer actively
> >> encouraged somebody to commit a crime. Leaving a bicycle parked that
> >> happens to belong to the police, and which they happen to be able to
> >> track is not entrapment, because normally law abiding people would not
> >> steal the bike.

> >
> > So is picking up something you find in the street a crime?

>
> Quite possibly theft by finding. I think you have to take reasonable
> steps to ascertain that the items have indeed been abandoned or are
> ownerless.
>
> > back yard next to the bins - was that a crime? If I found an unlocked bike
> > with nobody near, I would consider it to be abandoned and presume that if I
> > didn't take it, someone else would.

>
> Well I wouldn't have had a bike for most of my childhood then. Nor
> would my mates. We lived in a very small town and no-one bothered to
> lock up bikes.


still don't for most part where i've come from.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
 
Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:

> in message <[email protected]>, John Rowland
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
> > So is picking up something you find in the street a crime? I have often
> > taken home swivel chairs which I have found in the street, or in an
> > office's back yard next to the bins - was that a crime? If I found an
> > unlocked bike with nobody near, I would consider it to be abandoned and
> > presume that if I didn't take it, someone else would.

>
> Maybe it's because I'm a backwoodsman... Around here people don't lock
> their houses or their cars, let alone their bikes. When I cycle in to
> town, I don't normally take a lock with me. Why should I? People are
> honest.
>

some of that though is that remote ish places mean that the houses tend
to less secure ie more access places and more time to do it. though on
the other hand often have less stuff to nick any way. it's the folks
down in the village that have the wall sized tv's and such.

also with things like bikes being small places if you buy a hot bike it
woun't of come far.

> You do have to be a bit more careful in tourist season, though.


so far the main danger seems to be suday riders on their on so well set
up BSO's etc hurtling down the lanes. the idea of stopping distances
doesn't seemed to have dawned on them.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
 
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007, Marz wrote:

> But what can you do about it. Say you are coming out of the swimming
> pool/shop/pub and find someone in the act of stealing your bike, what
> next?
>
> 1, Do you start dialing 999?
> 2, Kick him in the balls and then dial 999?
> 3, Pull his hoody over his eyes, kick him in the balls and then dial
> 999?
> 4, Shout 'oi' from a safe distance and hope he runs off?
> 5, Let him take it 'cos you need a new bike and your insurance will
> cover it?
> 6, Take a picture with your camera phone, shout 'oi' and then dial
> 999?
> 7, Start a slow clap (wasn't there some **** public information video
> from a few years back that had clapping)
> 8, Beat the **** out of him and ride home?
> 9, Exercise a citizen's arrest?
> 10, A combination of the above?


Some years ago (about 1990, IIRC), my bike got stolen even though it was
locked up. I reported it to the police and of course heard no more.

A few weeks later I was in a taxi on my way to work when I spotted a kid
go past on my bike. I jumped out, followed him and yanked the poor sod off
the bike (he was only about 12), yelled at him and cycled off to work. I
phoned the police to tell them I'd recovered it, and they happened to be
talking to his parents at the time, as they'd reported the hijack! I
assume the bike had been sold to them. The police said they'd be in touch
about the whole incident, but I never heard another word about it.

I suspect that if it happened now, I'd be in serious trouble.

--
 
"congokid" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, M25
> <[email protected]> writes
>
>>When ever I lock my bike up, I always bring the front wheel
>>with me and also the seat. So if some does decide to steal it they'll
>>have to walk home with it.

>
> On my visits to the swimming pool, I take off the front wheel and lock it
> along with the frame and back wheel to a railing or Sheffield stand
> depending on which pool I'm at. Like you I remove the saddle, but also the
> seat post and bring them inside with me. I'm not losing another Brooks.
> --
> congokid
> Eating out in London? Read my tips...
> http://congokid.com

When I said I remove the seat I did mean the seatpost with
the saddle attached via the quick release, otherwise removing the seat
from the seatpost every time I locked it up would be a bit of a cuffufle.
 
In <[email protected]>, Tascam Holiday
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Some years ago (about 1990, IIRC), my bike got stolen even though it was
>locked up. I reported it to the police and of course heard no more.
>
>A few weeks later I was in a taxi on my way to work when I spotted a kid
>go past on my bike. I jumped out, followed him and yanked the poor sod off
>the bike (he was only about 12), yelled at him and cycled off to work. I
>phoned the police to tell them I'd recovered it, and they happened to be
>talking to his parents at the time, as they'd reported the hijack! I
>assume the bike had been sold to them. The police said they'd be in touch
>about the whole incident, but I never heard another word about it.


Nothing at all? Surely the taxi driver pursued you through the streets
for his fare? :)
 
"Tascam Holiday" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
>
>
> Some years ago (about 1990, IIRC), my bike got stolen even though it was
> locked up. I reported it to the police and of course heard no more.
>
> A few weeks later I was in a taxi on my way to work when I spotted a kid
> go past on my bike. I jumped out, followed him and yanked the poor sod off
> the bike (he was only about 12), yelled at him and cycled off to work. I
> phoned the police to tell them I'd recovered it, and they happened to be
> talking to his parents at the time, as they'd reported the hijack! I
> assume the bike had been sold to them. The police said they'd be in touch
> about the whole incident, but I never heard another word about it.
>
> I suspect that if it happened now, I'd be in serious trouble.


It's a good job you phoned the police to let them know you'd got
it back. Imagine the huge number of man hours wasted on the
tireless search for your missing bicycle that might otherwise have ocurred.
--
Col

Steal a spaceship and head for the sun,
Shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.
 
> It's a good job you phoned the police to let them know you'd got
> it back. Imagine the huge number of man hours wasted on the
> tireless search for your missing bicycle that might otherwise have
> ocurred.


I've got to start unplugging the Sarcasm Detector before reading this
group, it's just not designed to cope with this level. <looks down at
smoking hole in the floor>
 
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:43:34 -0000, Marz <[email protected]>
wrote:

>But what can you do about it. Say you are coming out of the swimming
>pool/shop/pub and find someone in the act of stealing your bike, what
>next?
>
>1, Do you start dialing 999?
>2, Kick him in the balls and then dial 999?
>3, Pull his hoody over his eyes, kick him in the balls and then dial
>999?
>4, Shout 'oi' from a safe distance and hope he runs off?
>5, Let him take it 'cos you need a new bike and your insurance will
>cover it?
>6, Take a picture with your camera phone, shout 'oi' and then dial
>999?
>7, Start a slow clap (wasn't there some **** public information video
>from a few years back that had clapping)
>8, Beat the **** out of him and ride home?
>9, Exercise a citizen's arrest?
>10, A combination of the above?


11) Beat the **** out of him, smash his teeth in, chop off his
goolies and feed them to a passing dog, nail the ******* to the wall
with bits of rusty rebar, melt a deluxe B&Q bog seat round his neck
with a blowtorch, and brand 'bicycle thief scum' onto his forehead.

Zero tolerance, Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.

But a mass burning of hoodie clothing with an odd hoodie thrown on the
pile would be a good start.


--
 
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>


>
> 11) Beat the **** out of him, smash his teeth in, chop off his
> goolies and feed them to a passing dog, nail the ******* to the wall
> with bits of rusty rebar, melt a deluxe B&Q bog seat round his neck
> with a blowtorch, and brand 'bicycle thief scum' onto his forehead.
>
> Zero tolerance, Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.
>
> But a mass burning of hoodie clothing with an odd hoodie thrown on the
> pile would be a good start.


Why so lenient?
--
Col

Steal a spaceship and head for the sun,
Shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.
 
"Marz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> But what can you do about it. Say you are coming out of the swimming
> pool/shop/pub and find someone in the act of stealing your bike, what
> next?


> 7, Start a slow clap (wasn't there some **** public information video


Yes, IIRC it was a Tory idea to have groups of local volunteers patroling
the streets and if they came accross any `villains` they were to approach
them whilst clapping slowly in unison. Those druggy taking desperados must
have shat themselves. Laughing, that is. Tories liked policies that didn`t
cost money, like employing more police.

mick
 
On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Mike wrote:

> Zero tolerance, Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.


> But a mass burning of hoodie clothing with an odd hoodie thrown on the
> pile would be a good start.


I (and my hoodie) must object!

I'm sure hoddies used to generally worn by the "nu-metal" and goth lot,
they were in varying shades of black and usually had band names like
Slipknot on them. Despite the music which was apparently corrupting their
brains, there tended to be less agression and hassle from that lot.
--
Chris Johns
 
On 3 Aug, 17:43, Marz <[email protected]> wrote:
> But what can you do about it. Say you are coming out of the swimming
> pool/shop/pub and find someone in the act of stealing your bike, what
> next?
>
> 1, Do you start dialing 999?
> 2, Kick him in the balls and then dial 999?
> 3, Pull his hoody over his eyes, kick him in the balls and then dial
> 999?
> 4, Shout 'oi' from a safe distance and hope he runs off?
> 5, Let him take it 'cos you need a new bike and your insurance will
> cover it?
> 6, Take a picture with your camera phone, shout 'oi' and then dial
> 999?
> 7, Start a slow clap (wasn't there some **** public information video
> from a few years back that had clapping)
> 8, Beat the **** out of him and ride home?
> 9, Exercise a citizen's arrest?
> 10, A combination of the above?


Thinking about it, has anyone ever seen these people nicking a bike?
I'm assumming these lot are semi-pro, with the inclination, tools adn
where with all to flog em on afterwards. *I'm talking nicking locked
up bikes and not just the opportunist scum.*

If I was to see one being nicked I'd like to think I'd cause soem
violence, but then you know you'd probably get arrested and the thief
let off.

I'd probably take a picture on my mobile to be honest and then a quick
oi. CCTV can then be used by the police to track the piece of
excrement. I'm a bit simple see?