Re: Burger wars

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Faux_Pseudo, Mar 9, 2006.

  1. Nancy Young

    Nancy Young Guest

    "Glitter Ninja" <[email protected]> wrote

    > "Nancy Young" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >>I have trolls killfiled, sometimes they are the cause of the crosspost.
    >>I really didn't expect you did it. I didn't. I'm very surprised.

    >
    > Eh, feel free to killfile me. While it's not common, I've definitely
    > crossposted ark and rfc before. It's no skin off my nose if you want to
    > kf me for it if it upsets you.


    Obviously.

    nancy
     


  2. Glitter Ninja wrote:
    > "Nancy Young" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > >Bun/meat ratio ... even if I used the same amount of beef as the
    > >fast food place, I'd use less bread.

    >
    > I can't imagine being able to make a patty by hand that was as small
    > as a fast food patty. My husband worked at a small town burger joint as
    > a kid, and his boss always bragged that they bought patties which were
    > 1/10th of a pound each, while McD's used patties which weighed 1/12th of
    > a pound. I have trouble keeping a patty that's 1/5th of a pound from
    > falling apart!


    Mmm. Krazy Jim's Blimpy Burgers.

    They take a 0.1-lb ball of meat, mash it on the grill (griddle,
    actually) with a
    stiff spatula. You can get doubles, triples, quads, or quints,
    referring to the
    number of miniature patties that show up inside the bun. They grind
    the meat
    in-house. Heaven! The grease runs right down your arm.

    You're probably right that less than 1/5 lb can't be patted into a
    burger. Alton
    Brown's "Man Food Show" makes sliders by rolling ground meat like a pie
    crust
    between two sheets of plastic wrap, if memory serves.

    Cindy Hamilton
     
  3. notbob wrote:
    > On 2006-03-10, Bob (this one) <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Beef. Bread. What's to be better?

    >
    > Lettuce, tomato, cheese, relish, onions, condiments, etc.
    >
    > > Freshly cooked burgers from any of the burger places aren't dry, either.

    >
    > Since the new temperature/time rules eliminating the threat of e-coli
    > have been instituted, burgers are cooked more done than I prefer.
    > Another reason why moisture contributing elements like tomatoes and
    > onions are more desirable than ever.


    Come on up to Michigan. Provided you avoid chain restaurants
    (especially
    those based in California), you can get your burger cooked any way you
    want.
    Menus are required to have some boilerplate about the risk of eating
    undercooked food, but any restaurant you'd actually want to order a
    burger
    from will cook it as rare as you like.

    Cindy Hamilton
     
  4. Otto Bahn

    Otto Bahn Guest

    YAAAAAYYYY! Kerri *and* Stacia return to ARK! Now all we need is
    Tamara and my harem will be complete.

    --oTTo--
     
  5. Mark South

    Mark South Guest

    On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:05:30 -0500, Otto Bahn wrote:

    > YAAAAAYYYY! Kerri *and* Stacia return to ARK! Now all we need is
    > Seth and my living room suite will be complete.


    IFYPFY.
    --
    mark south: world citizen, net denizen
    echo [email protected]|tr a-z n-za-m
    "Take it? I can't even parse it!" - Kibo, in ARK
     
  6. On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:05:22 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Glitter
    Ninja) wrote:

    > OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.


    LOL! Hiya Stacia! Great to read you again! Am I still on your
    Ladder of Hate? 'Cause I never stopped loving you, you know.

    -=Darla=-


    --
    "I'm still here, you bastards!"
    ---Papillon

    http://www.yougotta.com/DARLA/

    --
     
  7. notbob wrote:
    > On 2006-03-10, Nancy Young <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>So ... I'll just leave it here. Bob can't make a better burger
    >>using those two ingredients than McDonalds can.

    >
    > If he can't, it doesn't say much about his expertise as a restauranteer.


    Restaurateur...

    How lame...

    Pastorio
     
  8. Nancy Young wrote:
    > "Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote
    >
    >>Nancy Young wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> wrote

    >
    >>>Look, I am the first to admit I have a fast food burger once
    >>>in a while, I'm not ashamed. But I know full well even the *most*
    >>>basic burger I could make at home would be a world better than
    >>>what we're talking about.

    >>
    >>Beef. Bread. What's to be better?

    >
    > So ... I'll just leave it here.


    Nancy, that was an actual question. I distinguished between actual
    "quality" criteria and "suits me" criteria. Better can either mean "more
    to my liking" or "higher quality" - judged against objective criteria.
    Your comments fell within the "suits me" category.

    No comment on the nature/cuts of the meat. No comment on the grade of
    meat or how it was ground/chopped. No comment on the nature/ingredients
    of the breads used. They would all be quality assessments.

    > Bob can't make a better burger
    > using those two ingredients than McDonalds can. You win.


    Puhleeeze.

    There was no contest. I offered a different view and asked a few
    questions, that's all.

    Pastorio
     
  9. Glitter Ninja wrote:
    > "Bob (this one)" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >>Glitter Ninja wrote:

    >
    >>> I can't imagine being able to make a patty by hand that was as small
    >>> as a fast food patty.

    >
    >>What a perfectly silly thing to say. All it takes is a scale.

    >
    > Right. I just can't do math, that's the problem.


    No, you're a moron. That's the problem. And your imagination is as
    crippled as your logic.

    > Or is it that you responded with a whiny little complaint before you
    > read the whole post? Because later you comment on what I *really* said:


    Nah. And your idea of a "whiny little complaint" means your reading
    skills are as good as your math and your imagination.

    I read the whole post before I decided to heap scorn on your empty
    little head. Now toss those pretty curls and flounce around some more.
    That's it... push the shades up on top of your head while you fire that
    nasty look at me... Perfect.

    Um, you have some spinach on your front teeth...

    >>>I have trouble keeping a patty that's 1/5th of a pound from falling
    >>>apart!

    >
    > See? Just in case you didn't get that, let me break it down for you,
    > Sparky: It's not that I can't read a scale, it's that a small patty with
    > no binder or fillers often falls apart. But who can argue with your
    > definitive advice:


    See, darlin' you're talking crap. That "small patty with no binders or
    fillers" is an industry standard, available as frozen patties or fresh
    patties - or as a container of ground beef that requires a rational
    human to weigh and properly form the patties. It won't fall apart unless
    your cooking skills are right up there with your reading, logic and math
    skills.

    When I ran a ski resort foodservice operation, we made what we called
    our "Junior Burgers" and patted them out in a public kitchen where
    people could see them being done. Hundreds every day. Guess how much
    they weighed?

    No, try again.

    Um, no, another guess...

    Right 1/5 of a pound. Precisely 3.2 ounces.

    >>Really? Then just smoosh it together a bit more.

    >
    > OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.


    <LOL> See how utterly moronic you are...

    No, you wouldn't. Too much of a moron. Not too good at catching sarcasm,
    either.

    Here are two salient facts:
    1) Handling ground meat more makes it stick together more. Pressing it
    together makes it stay together and results in a more substantial "bite"
    when eating it.
    2) Your writing skills are right up there with your reading, logic, math
    and culinary ones.

    Hey, here's another fact for free that I won't even put on the bill...
    3) You know less than jackshit about food.

    > Are you for real? You tell me to "smoosh" the meat more -- and I can
    > assure you that I am very skilled at smooshing meat


    <LOL> I'll bet you are. Are those fishnet thigh-highs?

    >> -- and then complain that:

    >
    >>And this kind of nonsense is exactly what I was talking about.

    >
    > Indeed. It's nonsense like your ridiculous claim that I don't know
    > how to smoosh meat ("smoosh" being the scientific term) correctly that's
    > the real problem here.


    Poor Stacia. Takes pride in ignorance of culinary technique. Can't catch
    the scornful dismissal of clearly absurd assertions. And sees getting
    smacked around as a "complaint."

    That remedial course down at the Vo-Tech is still open. Maybe you can
    learn to carry the light end of the board or maybe wash cars. Save you
    all the anguish that cooking and food obviously cause you.

    And there's that imagination problem...

    Pastorio
     
  10. Faux_Pseudo

    Faux_Pseudo Guest

    _.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._
    >> That is because most of their burgers aren't beef. Unless it is one
    >> of the ones advertised as 'all beef' it is about half soy. The QP, BM
    >> and B&T are all beef but I think the rest are soy/meat mix.

    >
    > All McD's meat burgers in the U.S. are beef. Period. Always have been.
    > Their menus around the world reflect the local cultures.

    <snip>
    > From their ingredients page:
    > "Beef Patty:
    > 100% pure USDA inspected beef; no additives, no fillers, no extenders."
    ><http://tinyurl.com/34652>
    ><http://www.mcdonalds.com/app_controller.nutrition.categories.ingredients.index.html>


    I stand corrected.
    <snip flame>

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    ((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
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  11. Faux_Pseudo

    Faux_Pseudo Guest

    _.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._
    > If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
    > It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
    > public reaction would be overwhelming.


    An extra note to my other reply for this section of you post.

    McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the aditives to their
    products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
    tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
    declared. People other than Hindus and vegetarians never seemed to
    react at all.

    --
    .-')) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
    ' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
    ((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
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  12. Faux_Pseudo wrote:

    > _.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._
    >
    >>If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
    >>It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
    >>public reaction would be overwhelming.

    >
    > An extra note to my other reply for this section of you post.
    >
    > McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the additives to their
    > products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
    > tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
    > declared.


    Doesn't sound like you're too sure what you're on about.

    > People other than Hindus and vegetarians never seemed to
    > react at all.


    Why would they? The fries were wonderful.

    They (and every other foodservice operation) have never had to declare
    their cooking oils. They didn't "include it in their fries," they cooked
    their fries in it. There has never been a requirement to talk about
    cooking oils. They've done it in an effort to pacify a largely ignorant
    public.

    Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
    It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
    unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
    dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
    Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
    diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
    neighborhood McD's.

    (Try cooking some at home in rendered tallow. Or goose fat. Or duck fat.
    It's a whole different experience.)

    I think McD's has really gone overboard trying to offend nobody; to
    please everybody. They've been trapped by so much ignorant foolishness -
    they changed their burger packaging in bowing to public opinion with the
    final result that the newer packaging is less biodegradable. That whole
    bullshit episode with Stella pouring hot coffee in her lap and blaming
    it on McD that uses the same machines and same industry standards as
    every other foodservice operation.

    Were it my company, I'd say, I'm sorry all you people who don't want any
    contact with beef (DUH! We're a freakin burger joint!) be advised that
    beef fumes permeate our kitchens and we fry our potatoes in clean beef
    tallow so they taste better than everybody else's. I wonder how many
    Hindus eat in McD's in the States. And vegetarians. Can't serve everybody.

    One of the great (and not so great) things about the US is the vast,
    vast number of choices there are for where to eat. And where not to eat.

    Pastorio
     
  13. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    "Bob (this one)" wrote:

    >
    > Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
    > It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
    > unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
    > dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
    > Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
    > diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
    > neighborhood McD's.


    How long ago did they switch? It's been many, many years since I ate in a
    McDs and I don't remember their fries ever being good.
     
  14. Dave Smith wrote:
    > "Bob (this one)" wrote:
    >
    >>Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
    >>It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
    >>unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
    >>dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
    >>Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
    >>diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
    >>neighborhood McD's.

    >
    > How long ago did they switch? It's been many, many years since I ate in a
    > McDs and I don't remember their fries ever being good.


    That's what happens when you get old.

    Pastorio
     
  15. Dave Smith

    Dave Smith Guest

    "Bob (this one)" wrote:

    >
    > >>Potatoes cooked in beef tallow taste better, brown better, crisp better.
    > >>It was one of their early trade secrets and why their fries were
    > >>unarguably better than everybody else's. Now, they're routine. They
    > >>dumbed down the quality of their fries with the net effect that a few
    > >>Hindus and a few vegetarians can now eat fries. So everybody gets
    > >>diminished quality, so a few more people can crowd into your friendly
    > >>neighborhood McD's.

    > >
    > > How long ago did they switch? It's been many, many years since I ate in a
    > > McDs and I don't remember their fries ever being good.

    >
    > That's what happens when you get old.


    LOL Maybe I should rephrase that and say that I remember them not being great.
    :)
     
  16. Faux_Pseudo

    Faux_Pseudo Guest

    _.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._
    >>>If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
    >>>It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
    >>>public reaction would be overwhelming.

    >>
    >> McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the additives to their
    >> products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
    >> tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
    >> declared.

    >
    > Doesn't sound like you're too sure what you're on about.


    I apologize. I was operating under the assumption based on your
    previous post that you liked to stay informed and therefore paid
    attention to the news. So let me clear up the way I sound with some
    facts for you to digest.

    Circa 3 weeks ago:
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/diet.fitness/02/15/mcdonald.s.fries.ap/index.html
    McDonald's had said until recently that its fries were free of gluten
    and milk or wheat allergens and safe to eat for those with dietary
    issues related to the consumption of dairy items. But the fast-food
    company quietly added "Contains wheat and milk ingredients" this month
    to the french fries listing on its Web site.
    <snip>
    The company paid $10 million in 2002 to settle a lawsuit by vegetarian
    groups after it was disclosed that its fries were cooked in
    beef-flavored oil despite the company's insistence in 1990 that it was
    abandoning beef tallow for pure vegetable oil.

    <snip of your goal post moving>

    --
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    ((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
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  17. On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 22:57:32 GMT, Darla Vladschyk wrote:

    >On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:05:22 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Glitter
    >Ninja) wrote:
    >
    >> OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.

    >
    >LOL! Hiya Stacia! Great to read you again! Am I still on your
    >Ladder of Hate? 'Cause I never stopped loving you, you know.


    Quit it, ya big kiss-up: Stacia's roastiing an asswipe! Wait until
    she's through.

    --
    Chris McG.
    Harming humanity since 1951.
    "What do you expect from a bunch of kiwi smoking sheep herders?" --
    oTTo

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  18. On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:46:14 -0500, Bob (this one) wrote:
    >When I ran a ski resort foodservice operation, we made what we called
    >our "Junior Burgers" and patted them out in a public kitchen where
    >people could see them being done. Hundreds every day. Guess how much
    >they weighed?


    Are you sure it wasn't Band Camp? Is your last name Stiffler? My guess
    is the "hamburger" was mostly fat, which is filler. Try making a patty
    with round steak ground, and watch it fall apart.

    >No, try again.
    >
    >Um, no, another guess...
    >
    >Right 1/5 of a pound. Precisely 3.2 ounces.


    And you weighed each and every one of those patties on a scale? Those
    poor, hungry little children waiting for a sizzling hot Junior Burger
    had to wait extra long for the weigh-in and then got a cold hamburger!
    Sadist.

    >>>Really? Then just smoosh it together a bit more.

    >>
    >> OH WHAT A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU MR. AMAZING COOKING MAN.

    >
    ><LOL> See how utterly moronic you are...


    YOU NEED A REST, BOB! LOL!! GOD BLESS!

    >No, you wouldn't. Too much of a moron. Not too good at catching sarcasm,
    >either.
    >
    >Here are two salient facts:
    >1) Handling ground meat more makes it stick together more. Pressing it
    >together makes it stay together and results in a more substantial "bite"
    >when eating it.
    >2) Your writing skills are right up there with your reading, logic, math
    >and culinary ones.


    I don't know, she's managed to expose you as a pompous, ignorant
    jackass who thinks Burger King hamburger is Grade A. Of course your
    help was invaluable in doing this.

    --
    Chris McG.
    Harming humanity since 1951.
    "What do you expect from a bunch of kiwi smoking sheep herders?" --
    oTTo

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  19. sf

    sf Guest

    On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 04:53:11 GMT, Faux_Pseudo wrote:

    > _.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob (this one) wrote the following -._
    > > If they added anything to the beef patties, they'd have to declare it.
    > > It's the law. And they're not stupid enough to try to sneak it by; the
    > > public reaction would be overwhelming.

    >
    > An extra note to my other reply for this section of you post.
    >
    > McDonalds has a history of not declairing all of the aditives to their
    > products. There have been at least two cases I can think of were beef
    > tallow was included in their fries or in the oil and it wasn't
    > declared.


    Those were the days before it was required and the frying oil was
    probably considered a trade secret. Personally, I didn't care.

    > People other than Hindus and vegetarians never seemed to
    > react at all.


    That's because the fries were crispy and they tasted REALLY good.
    Hindu's (McDonald's wasn't worldwide or even nationwide at one point,
    believe it or not) and vegetarians were barely a blip on the radar
    screen in those days. Why either would ever want to eat at McDonald's
    still confuses me.

    Today, McDonald's FF aren't what they used to be... but they're still
    a lot better than their chain competitors.

    http://www.rense.com/general7/whyy.htm

    For decades McDonald's cooked its french fries in a mixture of about
    seven percent cottonseed oil and 93 percent beef tallow. The mixture
    gave the fries their unique flavor -- and more saturated beef fat per
    ounce than a McDonald's hamburger.

    In 1990, amid a barrage of criticism over the amount of cholesterol in
    its fries, McDonald's switched to pure vegetable oil. This presented
    the company with a challenge: how to make fries that subtly taste like
    beef without cooking them in beef tallow. A look at the ingredients in
    McDonald's french fries suggests how the problem was solved. Toward
    the end of the list is a seemingly innocuous yet oddly mysterious
    phrase: "natural flavor." That ingredient helps to explain not only
    why the fries taste so good but also why most fast food -- indeed,
    most of the food Americans eat today -- tastes the way it does.
    --

    Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.
     
  20. sf

    sf Guest

    On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:47:28 GMT, Faux_Pseudo wrote:

    > The company paid $10 million in 2002 to settle a lawsuit by vegetarian
    > groups after it was disclosed that its fries were cooked in
    > beef-flavored oil despite the company's insistence



    I don't know how that sham make it through the courts. McDonald's
    used beef flavoring and they certainly didn't hide the fact. I knew.
    Why didn't you?
    --

    Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.
     
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