S
Simon Brooke
Guest
in message <[email protected]>, [email protected]
('[email protected]') wrote:
> Hi, I've recently bought a Claude Butler Supermoto Mens 26ins, 24
> Speed mountain bike for about £150 from a local auction in London.
> These bikes got for £370 new.
> Shown here:
>
http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xDN-Sports_and_Outdoors--14088_price_range_above_300-14068_men
>
> I'm seeing a *lot* of cheaper bikes for £70, 26ins, 24 speed that also
> have dual suspension and shimano gears. Is there much difference
> between the cheaper bikes and the hand made Claude Butlers?
Oh, heck it's _way_ more complex than that.
Yes, there is a difference. Claud Butlers are not really hand made these
days, but most Claud Butlers are at least reasonably well made. There
are really excellent bikes and real bargains in the current Claud
Butler range.
*However*, 'Claude Butler' is not the same as 'Claud Butler', and there
is no 'Supermoto' model (or anything like it) in the current Claud
Butler range. I don't know for certain but I suspect that Claud Butler
never had anything to do with your bike and you have simply been ripped
off by con merchants.
So, to the detail of your bike:
You cannot get a usable full suspension bike under about a thousand
pounds. Not because you are being ripped off, but because suspension
which works well enough to be any use while being light enough for a
bike people can actually ride is simply very expensive to make.
So what's good about the Supermoto as compared to the cheaper bikes?
Well, it's got an aluminium frame as opposed to a 'Hi-ten' steel one,
so it should be a bit lighter. It has at least got the suspension pivot
in the right place, which means that it shouldn't bob too badly while
being ridden, although it will almost certainly still bob a bit.
Basically this is a bike tricked up to look good in the showroom, with
components which to the inexperienced look similar to those on full
suspension bikes which actually work.
The design of this (and all the other cheap 'Y' frame bikes you see
around) is basically ripped off from the Cannondale Super V. Cannondale
no longer make the Super V. Why not? The frame was too heavy (complete
bike weighed typically over 30lbs). So Cannondale replaced the Super V
with the Raven, which was an essentially similar design but made of
magnesium and carbon fibre, and it was _still_ too heavy. So Cannondale
replaced the Raven with the Jekyll, which had a more complex and better
braced aluminium frame (and is what I ride), and this was too expensive
to make so this year it's been replaced by the Prophet, which is a much
simpler design. And costs nearly two thousand pounds.
The whole problem with the 'Y' frame design is the interrupted seat
tube. It means the full weight of the rider is on the end of a
cantilever arm, and you can't make that arm both strong and light.
So, essentially, the Supermoto is a design four generations out of date,
cheaply made, fitted with too-heavy, cheaply made parts. It looks
flashy, but that's about the only good things about it.
If you want a real bargain mountain bike in this year's Claud Butler
range, look at the Cape Wrath
<URL:http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/product.php?c.id=3&s.id=1&p.id=106>
It's got a well made, lightweight frame, excellent frame design, and
very good quality componentry for more or less the same price as the
Supermoto. It's a much better bike altogether - one which is you really
can ride up in the hills.
--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Perl ... is the Brittney Spears of programming - easily accessible
;; but, in the final analysis, empty of any significant thought
;; Frank Adrian on Slashdot, 21st July 2003
('[email protected]') wrote:
> Hi, I've recently bought a Claude Butler Supermoto Mens 26ins, 24
> Speed mountain bike for about £150 from a local auction in London.
> These bikes got for £370 new.
> Shown here:
>
http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xDN-Sports_and_Outdoors--14088_price_range_above_300-14068_men
>
> I'm seeing a *lot* of cheaper bikes for £70, 26ins, 24 speed that also
> have dual suspension and shimano gears. Is there much difference
> between the cheaper bikes and the hand made Claude Butlers?
Oh, heck it's _way_ more complex than that.
Yes, there is a difference. Claud Butlers are not really hand made these
days, but most Claud Butlers are at least reasonably well made. There
are really excellent bikes and real bargains in the current Claud
Butler range.
*However*, 'Claude Butler' is not the same as 'Claud Butler', and there
is no 'Supermoto' model (or anything like it) in the current Claud
Butler range. I don't know for certain but I suspect that Claud Butler
never had anything to do with your bike and you have simply been ripped
off by con merchants.
So, to the detail of your bike:
You cannot get a usable full suspension bike under about a thousand
pounds. Not because you are being ripped off, but because suspension
which works well enough to be any use while being light enough for a
bike people can actually ride is simply very expensive to make.
So what's good about the Supermoto as compared to the cheaper bikes?
Well, it's got an aluminium frame as opposed to a 'Hi-ten' steel one,
so it should be a bit lighter. It has at least got the suspension pivot
in the right place, which means that it shouldn't bob too badly while
being ridden, although it will almost certainly still bob a bit.
Basically this is a bike tricked up to look good in the showroom, with
components which to the inexperienced look similar to those on full
suspension bikes which actually work.
The design of this (and all the other cheap 'Y' frame bikes you see
around) is basically ripped off from the Cannondale Super V. Cannondale
no longer make the Super V. Why not? The frame was too heavy (complete
bike weighed typically over 30lbs). So Cannondale replaced the Super V
with the Raven, which was an essentially similar design but made of
magnesium and carbon fibre, and it was _still_ too heavy. So Cannondale
replaced the Raven with the Jekyll, which had a more complex and better
braced aluminium frame (and is what I ride), and this was too expensive
to make so this year it's been replaced by the Prophet, which is a much
simpler design. And costs nearly two thousand pounds.
The whole problem with the 'Y' frame design is the interrupted seat
tube. It means the full weight of the rider is on the end of a
cantilever arm, and you can't make that arm both strong and light.
So, essentially, the Supermoto is a design four generations out of date,
cheaply made, fitted with too-heavy, cheaply made parts. It looks
flashy, but that's about the only good things about it.
If you want a real bargain mountain bike in this year's Claud Butler
range, look at the Cape Wrath
<URL:http://www.falconcycles.co.uk/product.php?c.id=3&s.id=1&p.id=106>
It's got a well made, lightweight frame, excellent frame design, and
very good quality componentry for more or less the same price as the
Supermoto. It's a much better bike altogether - one which is you really
can ride up in the hills.
--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Perl ... is the Brittney Spears of programming - easily accessible
;; but, in the final analysis, empty of any significant thought
;; Frank Adrian on Slashdot, 21st July 2003